renault clio sport could not pull on my old saab
14 December 2005, 09:05 AM
#391
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Originally Posted by rexabusa
sorry mate but i also hammered a clio 172 in my93 wrx, was very surprised at how quick it was. i crunched fourth and little clio slipstream me to 130 and still at races till140. it slaughters my other mates vr6 va va voom eh
,if thats the case the clio would have beaten a new wrx hands down.
14 December 2005, 09:07 AM
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sgscooby your a classic internet keyboard warrior. someone doesn't agree so you spout endless **** until people just get bored and either ignore you or just agree with you. the problem with trying to have a discussion with thick people (yes, like yourself you uneducated moron) is they are too stupid to realise they have lost the arguement. your now banging on about these technical facts without actually understanding them. they don't re-inforce your point what so ever you silly little boy. torque this torque that... bhp this bhp that... turbo cars nearly always have more torque than NA, but how much and how long is it created for? for how many revs? for example, I get 90% of my available torque at 2'500rpm and by 3'000rpm I can have all my torque to redline with no drop off... same of remapped cars like mine, torque comes in and stays to the limiter... limter and scoobs usually means engine rebuilds right?
It's good i guess that there are Subaru owners like you around though, it makes it twice as satisfying owning you on the road. I welcome the challenge of any std blob/bug eye WRX, bring it on. From standing i'll still beat you, from rolling you wont see which way i went. long live the euro ****box pmsl
It's good i guess that there are Subaru owners like you around though, it makes it twice as satisfying owning you on the road. I welcome the challenge of any std blob/bug eye WRX, bring it on. From standing i'll still beat you, from rolling you wont see which way i went. long live the euro ****box pmsl
14 December 2005, 09:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Diablo
Mate,
On a purely technical level, the WRX would be slightly ahead of the Clio based on the stats I posted.
I completely agree there is so little in it that the debate is, however, pretty worthless.
I wouldn't (now) touch either with "yours" TBH. Imagine having spent £20k on (run with me on this) a 225ps rally "monster"
and have some chav in a £12k Clio glued to your **** to 140 mph 
Likewise the Clio - sure its fun, stupidly quick for the money, and the cup's are reputed to handle very, very well, but its still a ****box £6k shopping trolly at heart, built by a manufacturer with, lets be honest, a dismal record for quality and reliability.
Which is why my cash is (shortly) going into a small, quality, turbo diesel with nothing to prove and bucket loads of torque. And which will be, in the real world of busy roads, crap surfaces, speed cameras and SPECS, to all intents and purposes as quick as either the WRX or the Clio, probably as much fun, considerably better built (and nicer place to be)
On a purely technical level, the WRX would be slightly ahead of the Clio based on the stats I posted.
I completely agree there is so little in it that the debate is, however, pretty worthless.
I wouldn't (now) touch either with "yours" TBH. Imagine having spent £20k on (run with me on this) a 225ps rally "monster"
and have some chav in a £12k Clio glued to your **** to 140 mph Likewise the Clio - sure its fun, stupidly quick for the money, and the cup's are reputed to handle very, very well, but its still a ****box £6k shopping trolly at heart, built by a manufacturer with, lets be honest, a dismal record for quality and reliability.
Which is why my cash is (shortly) going into a small, quality, turbo diesel with nothing to prove and bucket loads of torque. And which will be, in the real world of busy roads, crap surfaces, speed cameras and SPECS, to all intents and purposes as quick as either the WRX or the Clio, probably as much fun, considerably better built (and nicer place to be)
14 December 2005, 09:13 AM
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Originally Posted by TheJesus
sgscooby your a classic internet keyboard warrior. someone doesn't agree so you spout endless **** until people just get bored and either ignore you or just agree with you. the problem with trying to have a discussion with thick people (yes, like yourself you uneducated moron) is they are too stupid to realise they have lost the arguement. your now banging on about these technical facts without actually understanding them. they don't re-inforce your point what so ever you silly little boy. torque this torque that... bhp this bhp that... turbo cars nearly always have more torque than NA, but how much and how long is it created for? for how many revs? for example, I get 90% of my available torque at 2'500rpm and by 3'000rpm I can have all my torque to redline with no drop off... same of remapped cars like mine, torque comes in and stays to the limiter... limter and scoobs usually means engine rebuilds right?
It's good i guess that there are Subaru owners like you around though, it makes it twice as satisfying owning you on the road. I welcome the challenge of any std blob/bug eye WRX, bring it on. From standing i'll still beat you, from rolling you wont see which way i went. long live the euro ****box pmsl
It's good i guess that there are Subaru owners like you around though, it makes it twice as satisfying owning you on the road. I welcome the challenge of any std blob/bug eye WRX, bring it on. From standing i'll still beat you, from rolling you wont see which way i went. long live the euro ****box pmsl
You are a K N O B of the highest order sir.
14 December 2005, 09:18 AM
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The jesus i think you will find a keyboard warrior is someone who acts like a hard man and threatens people from behind their computer. I have never done or never will do this. All i do is get involved in some healthy debate with other members and you will find plenty of other people on this same thread that are arguing from the same point of view as myself. I fyou cant handle that then thats your problem and by the way your post is by far the most childish input ive seen here in a long time. You amatuer.
14 December 2005, 09:27 AM
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Originally Posted by mg driver
Isnt a 93 wrx 150 kg's lighter and 20+ bhp more powerfull than a new wrx,and yet he hung on to you till 140, ,if thats the case the clio would have beaten a new wrx hands down.
,if thats the case the clio would have beaten a new wrx hands down.
14 December 2005, 09:33 AM
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Classic shape WRX's are fast cars.
The performance regression of the new age cars is down to weight, safety features etc. New car is a better car, but likewise is a slower car.
A classic WRX would hammer a 172 Cup of that there is no doubt!!!! I test drove a 1995 WRX (import obviously). The car was a little shabby but shat me was it fast!!! That KICK, the sound, the everything was just monsterous. The new age has lost that, but likewise has gained in other areas.
Horses for courses.
The performance regression of the new age cars is down to weight, safety features etc. New car is a better car, but likewise is a slower car.
A classic WRX would hammer a 172 Cup of that there is no doubt!!!! I test drove a 1995 WRX (import obviously). The car was a little shabby but shat me was it fast!!! That KICK, the sound, the everything was just monsterous. The new age has lost that, but likewise has gained in other areas.
Horses for courses.
Last edited by Senior_AP; 14 December 2005 at 09:36 AM.
14 December 2005, 09:33 AM
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no, incorrect, a keyboard warrior is also someone who uses abusive language behind their computer screen knowing that if they said these things in person they are liable to get a slap.
by the way, you don't have to repeatedly go on about torque or bhp or whatever else, you whole heartedly agree with it saying it's the point to end all points... well i'm telling you it aint. there's a thing called the real world pal, time you went there. were all average drivers in the big scheme of things, therefore what happens on some glossy pages is meaningless to us, as is the fact that these are press cars whatever way you look at it and open to tampering among other things. Pug did this to make their cars appear slower to get lower insurance groupings therefore being able to aim their cars at a wider target market. You seem to discount anything people on here or other owners clubs have done as either 'bull****' because it doesn't agree with the fantasy in your head or you say it's bollox because magazine 'X' says so. You remind me of the beligerent yob sat in the corner of the pub abusing people as they walk in, yet in reality i imagine your nothing more than some geek with no friends who sits behind his computer screen wanking a lot
. Like I say, no point trying to have a discussion with people like you
by the way, you don't have to repeatedly go on about torque or bhp or whatever else, you whole heartedly agree with it saying it's the point to end all points... well i'm telling you it aint. there's a thing called the real world pal, time you went there. were all average drivers in the big scheme of things, therefore what happens on some glossy pages is meaningless to us, as is the fact that these are press cars whatever way you look at it and open to tampering among other things. Pug did this to make their cars appear slower to get lower insurance groupings therefore being able to aim their cars at a wider target market. You seem to discount anything people on here or other owners clubs have done as either 'bull****' because it doesn't agree with the fantasy in your head or you say it's bollox because magazine 'X' says so. You remind me of the beligerent yob sat in the corner of the pub abusing people as they walk in, yet in reality i imagine your nothing more than some geek with no friends who sits behind his computer screen wanking a lot
. Like I say, no point trying to have a discussion with people like you
14 December 2005, 09:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Senior_AP
Classic shape WRX's are fast cars.
The performance regression of the new age cars is down to weight, safety features etc. New car is a better car, but likewise is a slower car.
A classic WRX would hammer a 172 Cup of that there is no doubt.
The performance regression of the new age cars is down to weight, safety features etc. New car is a better car, but likewise is a slower car.
A classic WRX would hammer a 172 Cup of that there is no doubt.
14 December 2005, 09:44 AM
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Originally Posted by TheJesus
no, incorrect, a keyboard warrior is also someone who uses abusive language behind their computer screen knowing that if they said these things in person they are liable to get a slap.
by the way, you don't have to repeatedly go on about torque or bhp or whatever else, you whole heartedly agree with it saying it's the point to end all points... well i'm telling you it aint. there's a thing called the real world pal, time you went there. were all average drivers in the big scheme of things, therefore what happens on some glossy pages is meaningless to us, as is the fact that these are press cars whatever way you look at it and open to tampering among other things. Pug did this to make their cars appear slower to get lower insurance groupings therefore being able to aim their cars at a wider target market. You seem to discount anything people on here or other owners clubs have done as either 'bull****' because it doesn't agree with the fantasy in your head or you say it's bollox because magazine 'X' says so. You remind me of the beligerent yob sat in the corner of the pub abusing people as they walk in, yet in reality i imagine your nothing more than some geek with no friends who sits behind his computer screen wanking a lot. Like I say, no point trying to have a discussion with people like you
by the way, you don't have to repeatedly go on about torque or bhp or whatever else, you whole heartedly agree with it saying it's the point to end all points... well i'm telling you it aint. there's a thing called the real world pal, time you went there. were all average drivers in the big scheme of things, therefore what happens on some glossy pages is meaningless to us, as is the fact that these are press cars whatever way you look at it and open to tampering among other things. Pug did this to make their cars appear slower to get lower insurance groupings therefore being able to aim their cars at a wider target market. You seem to discount anything people on here or other owners clubs have done as either 'bull****' because it doesn't agree with the fantasy in your head or you say it's bollox because magazine 'X' says so. You remind me of the beligerent yob sat in the corner of the pub abusing people as they walk in, yet in reality i imagine your nothing more than some geek with no friends who sits behind his computer screen wanking a lot
. Like I say, no point trying to have a discussion with people like youI do **** a lot though.
In your so called real world there are only two different types of male.........
******* or liars.
14 December 2005, 07:32 PM
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Originally Posted by chris singleton
Anyone find a link to the vid?
14 December 2005, 07:56 PM
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Originally Posted by jasonius
15 December 2005, 08:38 AM
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Originally Posted by jasonius
15 December 2005, 10:04 AM
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Clio is a quicker car on track (of that there is no doubt) and on a drag strip there is "negligable difference" (politically worded as to not insight argument). Apart from the infamous "wet, greasy and autumn leaf infested" twisties the Clio is overall a quicker car no??
Not a better car perhaps, but quicker for sure.
Horses for courses really.
I'd own a Clio as a track toy but I wouldn't want a WRX as a track or road car. Seems to me that the lacklustre performance of new age WRX's coupled with crap fuel economy and ugly looks makes the car a bit pointless. It has all the negatives associated with a performance car - minus the performance!!
IMO of course.
Not a better car perhaps, but quicker for sure.
Horses for courses really.
I'd own a Clio as a track toy but I wouldn't want a WRX as a track or road car. Seems to me that the lacklustre performance of new age WRX's coupled with crap fuel economy and ugly looks makes the car a bit pointless. It has all the negatives associated with a performance car - minus the performance!!
IMO of course.
Last edited by Senior_AP; 15 December 2005 at 10:10 AM.
15 December 2005, 10:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Senior_AP
Clio is a quicker car on track (of that there is no doubt) and on a drag strip there is "negligable difference" (politically worded as to not insight argument). Apart from the infamous "wet, greasy and autumn leaf infested" twisties the Clio is overall a quicker car no??
Not a better car perhaps, but quicker for sure.
Horses for courses really.
I'd own a Clio as a track toy but I wouldn't want a WRX as a track or road car. Seems to me that the lacklustre performance of new age WRX's coupled with crap fuel economy and ugly looks makes the car a bit pointless. It has all the negatives associated with a performance car - minus the performance!!
IMO of course.
Not a better car perhaps, but quicker for sure.
Horses for courses really.
I'd own a Clio as a track toy but I wouldn't want a WRX as a track or road car. Seems to me that the lacklustre performance of new age WRX's coupled with crap fuel economy and ugly looks makes the car a bit pointless. It has all the negatives associated with a performance car - minus the performance!!
IMO of course.
Not disputing any of the above but a wrx when slightly modded is a completely different beast. Out of the box yes, it's a bit crap and doesn't represent as good as value as the clio and can only just match it for performance but the potential for the wrx is huge - a quick glance at the scoobymag project will show what excellent gains are available for not a huge cost.
I'd never buy a brand new wrx, but second hand examples with sensible mods are changing hands at silly money now and IMHO are a performance bargain
Chris
15 December 2005, 10:50 AM
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Originally Posted by chris singleton
Not disputing any of the above but a wrx when slightly modded is a completely different beast. Out of the box yes, it's a bit crap and doesn't represent as good as value as the clio and can only just match it for performance but the potential for the wrx is huge - a quick glance at the scoobymag project will show what excellent gains are available for not a huge cost.
I'd never buy a brand new wrx, but second hand examples with sensible mods are changing hands at silly money now and IMHO are a performance bargain
Chris
I'd never buy a brand new wrx, but second hand examples with sensible mods are changing hands at silly money now and IMHO are a performance bargain
Chris
That's the thing with Turbo's - so easy to get cheap gains.
PPP gives them, what, 240bhp??
15 December 2005, 11:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Senior_AP
That's the thing with Turbo's - so easy to get cheap gains.
PPP gives them, what, 240bhp??
PPP gives them, what, 240bhp??
265 on blobeyes I think with the ecutek software, 245 on bugeyes with the pigyback ecu
Most people buy the scoob with a view to modding it, I know we're comparing standard with standard but I'd personally prefer the scoob because of it's tuning potential
Standard wrx's suck
Chris
15 December 2005, 11:49 AM
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As I don't own a WRX or Clio but have thought about buying both here are my thoughts on them.
14K gets you a 2004 WRX with PPP, it also gets you a Clio Trophy. Which is the better car? Weighing it up the things I see the Clio winning on are speed round a track (which I'd use a decent track car for if i was that bothered), overall running costs (insurance, fuel etc approx 25% cheaper), image and maybe depreciation in terms of the Trophy due to its ltd edition status and magazines like EVO hyping it up.
I see the WRX PPP as winning in real world use (for example it rains fairly often), practicality, reliability, build quality and on less than ideal surfaces such as the roads in most of the UK.
I couldn't get to test drive the trophy as the dealer was reluctant to put miles on his demo car
so I've only tried the WRX PPP. It didn't seem as quick as my remapped old style Impreza was but was a much better drive.
On balance the qualities offered by the WRX PPP seem to make a much better car for day to day use than the Clio.
14K gets you a 2004 WRX with PPP, it also gets you a Clio Trophy. Which is the better car? Weighing it up the things I see the Clio winning on are speed round a track (which I'd use a decent track car for if i was that bothered), overall running costs (insurance, fuel etc approx 25% cheaper), image and maybe depreciation in terms of the Trophy due to its ltd edition status and magazines like EVO hyping it up.
I see the WRX PPP as winning in real world use (for example it rains fairly often), practicality, reliability, build quality and on less than ideal surfaces such as the roads in most of the UK.
I couldn't get to test drive the trophy as the dealer was reluctant to put miles on his demo car
so I've only tried the WRX PPP. It didn't seem as quick as my remapped old style Impreza was but was a much better drive.On balance the qualities offered by the WRX PPP seem to make a much better car for day to day use than the Clio.
15 December 2005, 12:06 PM
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I dont own either car either now, irespective of what it would seem is a marginal difference in performance one way or the other give me an Imprezza anyday.
I could never feel that involved with or love any form of 172/182/Cup whatever deriviative.
It certainly wouldnt make me want to get up early on a Sunday morning,wash it down and take it for a thrash.
There still ever so slightly a girlie motor for me im afraid, they bland in with the rest of the small cars in the traffic.
Id much rather open the garage door to an imprezza, with all its rally heritage and lets not forget there still a good looking car .
I bet most Clio owners would swop for an Imprezza any day of the week.
I could never feel that involved with or love any form of 172/182/Cup whatever deriviative.
It certainly wouldnt make me want to get up early on a Sunday morning,wash it down and take it for a thrash.
There still ever so slightly a girlie motor for me im afraid, they bland in with the rest of the small cars in the traffic.
Id much rather open the garage door to an imprezza, with all its rally heritage and lets not forget there still a good looking car .
I bet most Clio owners would swop for an Imprezza any day of the week.
15 December 2005, 12:20 PM
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If you like the car so much, you'd think you could spell it properly!
I certainly would not swop our Clio for an Impreza, all that added expense to go roughly the same speed? Madness.
I certainly would not swop our Clio for an Impreza, all that added expense to go roughly the same speed? Madness.
15 December 2005, 12:24 PM
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25% extra in terms of costs seems about right for a car that has more space, better build, better reliability and better dealers (although that says more about Renault dealers than an endorsment of IM's mob). Also I suspect that a similar cost WRX PPP would actually be quicker than the trophy from a standing start, about as quick rolling and would out do it on top end. Never mind in the wet.
15 December 2005, 12:39 PM
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Originally Posted by brybusa
I dont own either car either now, irespective of what it would seem is a marginal difference in performance one way or the other give me an Imprezza anyday.
I could never feel that involved with or love any form of 172/182/Cup whatever deriviative.
It certainly wouldnt make me want to get up early on a Sunday morning,wash it down and take it for a thrash.
There still ever so slightly a girlie motor for me im afraid, they bland in with the rest of the small cars in the traffic.
Id much rather open the garage door to an imprezza, with all its rally heritage and lets not forget there still a good looking car .
I bet most Clio owners would swop for an Imprezza any day of the week.
I could never feel that involved with or love any form of 172/182/Cup whatever deriviative.
It certainly wouldnt make me want to get up early on a Sunday morning,wash it down and take it for a thrash.
There still ever so slightly a girlie motor for me im afraid, they bland in with the rest of the small cars in the traffic.
Id much rather open the garage door to an imprezza, with all its rally heritage and lets not forget there still a good looking car .
I bet most Clio owners would swop for an Imprezza any day of the week.
i would say to drive the clio is a lot more involving as you dont have the 4wd doing it for you ,,i drive a fwd car now and compared to my old scooby its very much more involving ,the scooby was just numb ,it didnt handle well and it relied totally on grip to curb its understeer,my front driving zs is is another street ,it feels alive and it communicates to you all thats happening .
15 December 2005, 12:40 PM
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Originally Posted by brybusa
I dont own either car either now, irespective of what it would seem is a marginal difference in performance one way or the other give me an Imprezza anyday.
I could never feel that involved with or love any form of 172/182/Cup whatever deriviative.
It certainly wouldnt make me want to get up early on a Sunday morning,wash it down and take it for a thrash.
There still ever so slightly a girlie motor for me im afraid, they bland in with the rest of the small cars in the traffic.
Id much rather open the garage door to an imprezza, with all its rally heritage and lets not forget there still a good looking car .
I bet most Clio owners would swop for an Imprezza any day of the week.
I could never feel that involved with or love any form of 172/182/Cup whatever deriviative.
It certainly wouldnt make me want to get up early on a Sunday morning,wash it down and take it for a thrash.
There still ever so slightly a girlie motor for me im afraid, they bland in with the rest of the small cars in the traffic.
Id much rather open the garage door to an imprezza, with all its rally heritage and lets not forget there still a good looking car .
I bet most Clio owners would swop for an Imprezza any day of the week.
totally agree with these comments. i have owned both cars and never felt that the clio was a true performance car and didnt feel that it ever gained respect amongst real performance car owners (not a good image). since owning the wrx i have seen off a clio and made considerable ground on it, and a civic type r was not as quick as i expected, leaving me in the firm knowledge that it is, performance wise what it should be, rapid, not nippy like i would describe the clio. put a passenger in the clio and you know about it, wrx you hardly notice. SENIOR AP i take it with your comments on drag strips, all manufacturers 0-60 times are made up, with subaru 5.9 to 60, clio 7.1.........far from close, we all strive to gain extra seconds on a 0-60 dash, 1.2 secs is alot, like a wrx to a p1 . any clio drivers state they have honestly seen off a wrx? i doubt it.... 
15 December 2005, 12:44 PM
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Originally Posted by mg driver
what do you mean by "i could never feel that involved with or love any form of 172 etc" ???
i would say to drive the clio is a lot more involving as you dont have the 4wd doing it for you ,,i drive a fwd car now and compared to my old scooby its very much more involving ,the scooby was just numb ,it didnt handle well and it relied totally on grip to curb its understeer,my front driving zs is is another street ,it feels alive and it communicates to you all thats happening .
i would say to drive the clio is a lot more involving as you dont have the 4wd doing it for you ,,i drive a fwd car now and compared to my old scooby its very much more involving ,the scooby was just numb ,it didnt handle well and it relied totally on grip to curb its understeer,my front driving zs is is another street ,it feels alive and it communicates to you all thats happening .
subaru to an mg. they saw you comin pal. get on the mg website(on your own). naff motas( just expressin my opinion as we are all entitled to do)
15 December 2005, 12:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Senior_AP
A 172/182 is far more celebrated as a drivers car than a scoob.
Scoobs offer achievable performance for less capable drivers.
It's easy to go fast in a scoob to summarize.
Scoobs offer achievable performance for less capable drivers.
It's easy to go fast in a scoob to summarize.
15 December 2005, 12:55 PM
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nobody saw me coming,i sold my lightly modded classic (2000my turbo with 18kmiles)for 14k 2/3 years ago,,my mg cost me 9k ,it handles miles better ,stops better ,is faster now its modded,is totally reliable,,,,plus i dare let my missus drive it without fear of someone assaulting her to nick the car.I couldnt park my scooby anywhere without it attracting way to much attention,i go unnoticed in my mg and thats the way i like it.