Floyd’s ‘economy’ Stage III
23 April 2005, 09:37 PM
#181
Drag it!
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Floyd, sound good, and sounds like your happy despite the scoop incident.
Wait while you have put a gearbox back in, and pretty much everything you have done, whilst having a broken wrist, then when first cranking realising the box has to come again, because the dust gaurd has been trapped between the box and engine, and you now only have 8 hours to get to Nottingham (2 hour drive).
Wait while you have put a gearbox back in, and pretty much everything you have done, whilst having a broken wrist, then when first cranking realising the box has to come again, because the dust gaurd has been trapped between the box and engine, and you now only have 8 hours to get to Nottingham (2 hour drive).
23 April 2005, 11:21 PM
#183
TMIC final
As said before, I managed to fit everything and fire her up with out anything leaking or knocking. It looks like my TMIC is mounted slightly lower than Grahams or my undertray is higher! Anyway, final fitment:
Grahams' insulation solution, which seems to do the trick:
Undertray:
Top view with mef type mod:
Side top view showing folds and apertures - splitter and hole for turbo cooling:
A nicer flow of air to the rear of the TMIC and added pressure to front as well:
Scoop view:
And ****!
In one of the views you can see the hozelock irrigation nozzels for water spray. The undertray took a fair while to fabrication with the basic tools to hand. I'd love the time to make Bob a TMIC fitting kit but it probably wouldn't fit his
My misses would also leave me
F
Grahams' insulation solution, which seems to do the trick:
Undertray:
Top view with mef type mod:
Side top view showing folds and apertures - splitter and hole for turbo cooling:
A nicer flow of air to the rear of the TMIC and added pressure to front as well:
Scoop view:
And ****!
In one of the views you can see the hozelock irrigation nozzels for water spray. The undertray took a fair while to fabrication with the basic tools to hand. I'd love the time to make Bob a TMIC fitting kit but it probably wouldn't fit his
My misses would also leave me F
23 April 2005, 11:30 PM
#184
Heat management 2
Now that the inlet manifold is on I needed to refit the coolant header tank. This obviously transmits a lot of heat into the manifold through conduction and radiation. I'll look at the radiation later but for now a simple mod can help the conduction by detaching the tank from the manifold:
I will add some insulation later to the manifold but I need to experiment with the cheapo stuff I bought from B&Q to see if it'll cope with the heat...
I made a TMIC to Turbo shield for stage 2, which I will modify for the new TMIC. This should help slow temp rise at idle and in slow traffic. I will need to pay careful attention to air flow though.
F
I will add some insulation later to the manifold but I need to experiment with the cheapo stuff I bought from B&Q to see if it'll cope with the heat...
I made a TMIC to Turbo shield for stage 2, which I will modify for the new TMIC. This should help slow temp rise at idle and in slow traffic. I will need to pay careful attention to air flow though.
F
23 April 2005, 11:53 PM
#185
Exhaust manifold
I was tempted to port the inlet side of the heads but time was against me and I'm a scaredycat! The next best thing is the exhaust manifold. I'd already had a go at this a couple of years ago but in a very mild way and only after removal again could I see how much more I could do:
I hadn't touched the cross pipe or the off side collector so these were a priority as well as improving the original attempt - Cross pipe before:
Up pipe after:
Collector before:
After:
Guess who tightened the Lambda too much?:
They have changed the design on the later Lambda sensors.
I also cut the DP heat shield while I was at it and mildly opened up the DP mouth to match the gasket:
My exhaust is a Scoobysport 3 inch DP to STiV centre and PPP new age BB. Quiet when it needs to be but has a nice wail on full throttle.
F
I hadn't touched the cross pipe or the off side collector so these were a priority as well as improving the original attempt - Cross pipe before:
Up pipe after:
Collector before:
After:
Guess who tightened the Lambda too much?:
I also cut the DP heat shield while I was at it and mildly opened up the DP mouth to match the gasket:
My exhaust is a Scoobysport 3 inch DP to STiV centre and PPP new age BB. Quiet when it needs to be but has a nice wail on full throttle.
F
24 April 2005, 12:05 AM
#186
Fuel pump
I added an uprated pump, not for power but for reliability. My stock system would I believe cope but I wanted to build in extra safety and prepare for Stage IV...
New and old pumps:
The new pump is a direct replacement with no wiring necessary as it's plug and play:
I modified the fuel return hose to feed directly to the filter as this may help with avoiding surge issues (Tim tip!):
The pump is straight forward to remove but I borrowed Tim W to assist as it looked a bit dangerous
I had to swap it another 2 times due to a track day, where the unmapped new pump would have caused overfueling and det 
Now I'm an expert at changing this
The uprated pump and stock reg should fit my needs but definitely needs mapping to suit.
F
New and old pumps:
The new pump is a direct replacement with no wiring necessary as it's plug and play:
I modified the fuel return hose to feed directly to the filter as this may help with avoiding surge issues (Tim tip!):
The pump is straight forward to remove but I borrowed Tim W to assist as it looked a bit dangerous
I had to swap it another 2 times due to a track day, where the unmapped new pump would have caused overfueling and det Now I'm an expert at changing this The uprated pump and stock reg should fit my needs but definitely needs mapping to suit.
F
24 April 2005, 07:08 AM
#187
Crackin' report Floyd! I'm exhausted thinking about all that work you are doing!
I'm doing a full brake rebiuld on the 911....hate brake fluid.
Interesting mod on the fuel return pipe flowing directly at the 'sack' and the pump pick-up. Wished I'd thought of that one at the time I did mine!
I think if you use high reflection heat insulation tape (sticky backed aluminium foil) on the body of the header tank that will kill the radiated heat to the manifold. Definitly will try this and the plastic straps on my car too! (shamelessly steal and all that)
Most interesting
Graham.
I'm doing a full brake rebiuld on the 911....hate brake fluid.
Interesting mod on the fuel return pipe flowing directly at the 'sack' and the pump pick-up. Wished I'd thought of that one at the time I did mine!
I think if you use high reflection heat insulation tape (sticky backed aluminium foil) on the body of the header tank that will kill the radiated heat to the manifold. Definitly will try this and the plastic straps on my car too! (shamelessly steal and all that)
Most interesting
Graham.
Last edited by 911; 24 April 2005 at 07:09 AM. Reason: spelling
24 April 2005, 06:52 PM
#191
I would have been happy with the paint finish as it hardly makes any difference to the rest of the car. The colour match was quite good. 35k miles has taken its toll on the front end and there are a lot of chips to sort out. I may get the front end freshened up anyway and get the scoop repaired at the same time. It may be cheaper to get a new painted scoop than repair mine
F
F
grand or two?
26 April 2005, 10:33 PM
#198
The cost...
The cost can be split into 3 categories:
Just the bits that make more power, the bits that make more power and keep it there on track and everything since purchase...
If you just wanted the go faster bits then from page one of this project you'd need :
Sti5 centre resonated section (£25)
BB (£75)
H&S SS DP, pre lagged (£100)
Sti8 TMIC with pipes (£200)
Sti8 DV (£30)
VF35 (4k miles, ex WR1) (£350)
Samco inlet pipe (unused - bargain!) (£125)
Gaskets (new) (£37)
3 Port boost solenoid (£50)
Sti8 TMIC brackets (£20)
Aluminium and sundries (new) (£27)
Shipping for the above (£100)
K&N panel filter (35)
Samco 90 deg bend (£21)
Total £1205 + mapping £500 = £1705.
A similar price to the PPP for the classic but hopefully a lot more power. The RR will show the difference hopefully. Some cost can be trimmed from the list but not much and you could omit the 3 port probably. The 'free' bits are porting the TB, turbo, exhaust manifold and up pipe. The cold air feed and air box mods should be minimal too.
The bits that are go faster and foundation/reliability are:
All the above plus,
Catch can (£50)
Ali for cold air box shroud (£16)
Ali for radiator shroud (£10)
Ali for scoop undershield (£43)
STi7 scoop (£70)
Coolant hose (£15)
Manifold spacers (£55)
Fuel pump (£85)
Clutch cylinder (£30)
Fuel hose and clips (£35)
Parallel fuel mod kit (£48)
Insulation (£12)
Knocklink (£60)
Oil presssure an temp gauges (£50)
Gauge fitting kit (£18)
Maf (£80)
Lambda (£106)
Total = £783
This costing shows how reliabilty is quite a large percentage on top of the power only mods. I wonder if there's a rule of thumb for this ratio?
Everything:
The real horror story is that I've spent just over £7k on the car since purchase but the good news is I've actually sold stuff to the tune of £2755, which makes a net figure of £4262.53! Or £852/year. Notable costly bits were AP 4 pots @ £1200 and suspension.
I don't think that's too bad in the time I've had the car as I've certainly seen much more spent in far shorter time spans. If I get my target power then based on the power only costing it'll work out at £17/HP - now that's cheap!
F
PS forgot to mention that the spending hasn't stopped as I still need new suspension...
Just the bits that make more power, the bits that make more power and keep it there on track and everything since purchase...
If you just wanted the go faster bits then from page one of this project you'd need :
Sti5 centre resonated section (£25)
BB (£75)
H&S SS DP, pre lagged (£100)
Sti8 TMIC with pipes (£200)
Sti8 DV (£30)
VF35 (4k miles, ex WR1) (£350)
Samco inlet pipe (unused - bargain!) (£125)
Gaskets (new) (£37)
3 Port boost solenoid (£50)
Sti8 TMIC brackets (£20)
Aluminium and sundries (new) (£27)
Shipping for the above (£100)
K&N panel filter (35)
Samco 90 deg bend (£21)
Total £1205 + mapping £500 = £1705.
A similar price to the PPP for the classic but hopefully a lot more power. The RR will show the difference hopefully. Some cost can be trimmed from the list but not much and you could omit the 3 port probably. The 'free' bits are porting the TB, turbo, exhaust manifold and up pipe. The cold air feed and air box mods should be minimal too.
The bits that are go faster and foundation/reliability are:
All the above plus,
Catch can (£50)
Ali for cold air box shroud (£16)
Ali for radiator shroud (£10)
Ali for scoop undershield (£43)
STi7 scoop (£70)
Coolant hose (£15)
Manifold spacers (£55)
Fuel pump (£85)
Clutch cylinder (£30)
Fuel hose and clips (£35)
Parallel fuel mod kit (£48)
Insulation (£12)
Knocklink (£60)
Oil presssure an temp gauges (£50)
Gauge fitting kit (£18)
Maf (£80)
Lambda (£106)
Total = £783
This costing shows how reliabilty is quite a large percentage on top of the power only mods. I wonder if there's a rule of thumb for this ratio?
Everything:
The real horror story is that I've spent just over £7k on the car since purchase but the good news is I've actually sold stuff to the tune of £2755, which makes a net figure of £4262.53! Or £852/year. Notable costly bits were AP 4 pots @ £1200 and suspension.
I don't think that's too bad in the time I've had the car as I've certainly seen much more spent in far shorter time spans. If I get my target power then based on the power only costing it'll work out at £17/HP - now that's cheap!
F
PS forgot to mention that the spending hasn't stopped as I still need new suspension...
Last edited by Floyd; 26 April 2005 at 10:35 PM.
09 May 2005, 07:58 AM
#199
A bit of an update. I've been doing some final tweeks before my mapping session this coming w/e - gulp! I've fitted the oil temp/pressure gauges and I've done it in stealth style so its in the glove box I'll post some pictures later. I don't know how accurate the gauges are and I don't expect them to be for the price really but initial readings are 90-95C temp once warm and 4 - 7 KG/cm3 (is that bar?)for the pressure.
I was suprised to see the oil pressure reach 4 so quickly after ignition. The cruise pressure stays around 6 and rises to 6.5 and 7 - is this OK?
I did notice that my idle pressure after a long run is a little erratic, bouncing between 4 and 7! Not sure if its the cheap gauge or the car or whether this is normal?
I've managed to hide my Road Angel, Knocklink and oil gauges but I can't find room for the boost gauge yet...
F
I'll post some pictures later. I don't know how accurate the gauges are and I don't expect them to be for the price really but initial readings are 90-95C temp once warm and 4 - 7 KG/cm3 (is that bar?)for the pressure. I was suprised to see the oil pressure reach 4 so quickly after ignition. The cruise pressure stays around 6 and rises to 6.5 and 7 - is this OK?
I did notice that my idle pressure after a long run is a little erratic, bouncing between 4 and 7! Not sure if its the cheap gauge or the car or whether this is normal?
I've managed to hide my Road Angel, Knocklink and oil gauges but I can't find room for the boost gauge yet...
F
09 May 2005, 08:45 PM
#200
Stealth gauge install
Dash closed:
Dash open:
Knocklink, its quite easy to see on the move:
Guess where the left over checker plate went:
The glove box lid has two opening positions so that it only opens enough to see the gauges when required or fully open to use the remaining space. The Road Angel still works fully as there is line of site through the screen to the sky and the plastic lid is invisible to the signals.
F
Dash open:
Knocklink, its quite easy to see on the move:
Guess where the left over checker plate went:
The glove box lid has two opening positions so that it only opens enough to see the gauges when required or fully open to use the remaining space. The Road Angel still works fully as there is line of site through the screen to the sky and the plastic lid is invisible to the signals.
F
11 May 2005, 08:10 AM
#202
Lol, I don't know is the answer. I'll be told off by Uncle Bob if I boot it before its mapped Of course I've driven it and the temptation is very great to give it some but I need to be restrained All I can say is that it feels 'perky' and responsive already, whilst still being docile enough for my mum to be able to drive it and this is what I wanted. Mapping on the w/e...
Anyone know the answers to the oil questions a couple of posts back please?
F
PS edited to say that my mum will definitely not be driving it
She does 40mph on the motorway!!!!
Of course I've driven it and the temptation is very great to give it some but I need to be restrained All I can say is that it feels 'perky' and responsive already, whilst still being docile enough for my mum to be able to drive it and this is what I wanted. Mapping on the w/e...Anyone know the answers to the oil questions a couple of posts back please?
F
PS edited to say that my mum will definitely not be driving it
She does 40mph on the motorway!!!!
11 May 2005, 09:10 AM
#203
oil pressures and temps seem okay. Expect 2-4 bar at idle depending on engine and oil, and it should regulate at around 6 at higher RPM whent hot. I would expect some fluctation at idle when cold, less so when hot, mine bounces between about 2 and 2.5 bar.
Paul
Paul
12 May 2005, 08:09 AM
#204
Thanks Paul. The pressure gauge does dance at idle between 4-7!
Anyway, after all the engine mods there is a little project to stop the car, which involves these:
A loverly piece of engineering although you'd think these would be good enough and of course they are, but you can always make things better!
F
Anyway, after all the engine mods there is a little project to stop the car, which involves these:
A loverly piece of engineering although you'd think these would be good enough and of course they are, but you can always make things better!
F
12 May 2005, 09:16 AM
#205
Drag it!
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4 - 7 bar on idle. Is it a mechanical or electrical gauge?
The only thing better than them for a road car IMO are AP 6 pots
Prepare for a whole new braking experience
The only thing better than them for a road car IMO are AP 6 pots
Prepare for a whole new braking experience
12 May 2005, 10:25 AM
#206
Its an electrical gauge Steven and it only does it after a run and when its been idling a while. What I need to do is borrow another gauge and sender and check what is happening.
I have had the AP's on for a while now and they work very well. I can't imagine that I would need 6 pots but what the 4 pots could do with is a bit of extra cooling for the hot tracks to save pad wear. The 4 pots fit under 16's and everyone knows that this is the optimum size for handling but not bling!
F
I have had the AP's on for a while now and they work very well. I can't imagine that I would need 6 pots
but what the 4 pots could do with is a bit of extra cooling for the hot tracks to save pad wear. The 4 pots fit under 16's and everyone knows that this is the optimum size for handling but not bling! F
15 May 2005, 12:03 AM
#208
Mapping...
Well the day finally arrived where I would find out if all the hard work has paid off.
A trip to Bob didn't start too well though as the traffic was much heavier than I expected on a w/e morning With my 2 port back on to avoid over boost, I still had to ease the car to Swindon and this meant sitting behind dawdlers or very gentle overtaking on long straights. All the straights seem to have cameras on the A420 My printed 'multimaps' were as much use as a chocolate teapot in Swindon because where they showed roundabouts, they were now traffic lights - aaarrrgghhh! I decided to do a U turn at some lights and sitting on the other side of the lights facing me was another scooby. I couldn't quite recognise the driver though... Half an hour later of sightseeing Swindon's ring roads I realised that I was in exactly the right place to start with and that scooby driver was Bob!
My car was quickly wired up with sensors and off we went. Unfortunately the police were attending a broken down lorry on number one favorite mapping road so that was unwise to continue there Plan B was OK if a little heavy on traffic. I can't imagine what they thought of me - probably some loony young herbert showing off (I'd only agree with the young bit ).
The car went well and thankfully I had managed to avoid surge and boost creep with my porting efforts
I was concentrating so hard on maintaining orders and avoiding collisions that I hardly had time to feel or watch the speedo.
It was only when I was asked to use full power from a roundabout that I realised just what I'd got. A big bike was following me onto the stretch and I was about to let him pass when Bob said "plant it". Second was done as quick as I could ****** third, quickly followed by forth and fifth - whoosh! Big bike had been dropped somewhat. As I slowed he pulled up to my bumper again so I pulled into lane one to let him pass so that we could get on with the job. Big bike pulled along side and shook his head, then sped off. Not sure whether he thought I was playing silly buggers with him or just pi55ed that I caught him out? If you're reading this Mr Big, I'm sorry it was just coinsidence that you were there at that mapping test.
This through the gears test brought a wry grin to my face, oh yes. After a few hours and many tweeks we were back at Bobs. Very thorough is Bob and I think he has made the most of my mods - top chap. Its only when you've finished mapping that you realise how hard work it is. I was exhausted by the time I got home. That trip was an eye opener and now I must realign my overtaking parameters
So how can I describe the performance? I now have real go in top, the speed increases above 100kph like never before where it used to creep. It is much more determined to reach those higher speeds. 1st is unuseable and i'm not going to explore it just yet. Second is explosive. Third is shockingly effective, especially when used for the overtake. Forth is a new gear for me to explore for lazy A and B road progress, where the left hand really needs to be steering now!
In summary, its smooth, grunty, got plenty of top end but still can be driven to the shops by my mother. I am happy. Oh and it still gave me 280 miles to the tank!
Thanks Bob you're a star!
F
PS I will be RR the car for curiosity, probably at powerstation where my very first run was held... Also forgot to say that Bob inadvertently discovered the problem with my oil pressure gauge - the signal lead was too close to the alternator, which was picking up noise and making the gauge mis read! All is well now, great.
A trip to Bob didn't start too well though as the traffic was much heavier than I expected on a w/e morning
With my 2 port back on to avoid over boost, I still had to ease the car to Swindon and this meant sitting behind dawdlers or very gentle overtaking on long straights. All the straights seem to have cameras on the A420 My printed 'multimaps' were as much use as a chocolate teapot in Swindon because where they showed roundabouts, they were now traffic lights - aaarrrgghhh! I decided to do a U turn at some lights and sitting on the other side of the lights facing me was another scooby. I couldn't quite recognise the driver though... Half an hour later of sightseeing Swindon's ring roads I realised that I was in exactly the right place to start with and that scooby driver was Bob! My car was quickly wired up with sensors and off we went. Unfortunately the police were attending a broken down lorry on number one favorite mapping road so that was unwise to continue there
Plan B was OK if a little heavy on traffic. I can't imagine what they thought of me - probably some loony young herbert showing off (I'd only agree with the young bit ).The car went well and thankfully I had managed to avoid surge and boost creep with my porting efforts
I was concentrating so hard on maintaining orders and avoiding collisions that I hardly had time to feel or watch the speedo. It was only when I was asked to use full power from a roundabout that I realised just what I'd got. A big bike was following me onto the stretch and I was about to let him pass when Bob said "plant it". Second was done as quick as I could ****** third, quickly followed by forth and fifth - whoosh! Big bike had been dropped somewhat. As I slowed he pulled up to my bumper again so I pulled into lane one to let him pass so that we could get on with the job. Big bike pulled along side and shook his head, then sped off. Not sure whether he thought I was playing silly buggers with him or just pi55ed that I caught him out? If you're reading this Mr Big, I'm sorry it was just coinsidence that you were there at that mapping test.
This through the gears test brought a wry grin to my face, oh yes. After a few hours and many tweeks we were back at Bobs. Very thorough is Bob and I think he has made the most of my mods - top chap. Its only when you've finished mapping that you realise how hard work it is. I was exhausted by the time I got home. That trip was an eye opener and now I must realign my overtaking parameters
So how can I describe the performance? I now have real go in top, the speed increases above 100kph like never before where it used to creep. It is much more determined to reach those higher speeds. 1st is unuseable and i'm not going to explore it just yet. Second is explosive. Third is shockingly effective, especially when used for the overtake. Forth is a new gear for me to explore for lazy A and B road progress, where the left hand really needs to be steering now!
In summary, its smooth, grunty, got plenty of top end but still can be driven to the shops by my mother. I am happy. Oh and it still gave me 280 miles to the tank!
Thanks Bob you're a star!
F
PS I will be RR the car for curiosity, probably at powerstation where my very first run was held... Also forgot to say that Bob inadvertently discovered the problem with my oil pressure gauge - the signal lead was too close to the alternator, which was picking up noise and making the gauge mis read! All is well now, great.
Last edited by Floyd; 15 May 2005 at 12:11 AM.
Mapping cont.