460bhp ATW, 23psi, on optimax only
14 March 2005, 05:33 PM
#31
David,
Thanks for that info!
I presume you have thought (and probably experimented with this) about this, but was higher compression not possible to aid in the low down response at all?
I'm from the cosworth tuning scene, where it was forbidden to have anything higher than 7.2:1 on a 500bhp build, but in the past few years many people have gone the high compression route (well higher in comparison) to "fill in" where the lag left a gap.
I fully understand your reasoning behind the gearbox.... tbh if you get lag in any car you need to select the right gear to ensure your on boost!
I imagine your cam lift is quite a bit as your using double valve springs!
The turbo you have chosen (sorry for talking about the darkside) seems to be the turbo of choice for the big BHP cossies nowadays, so I can fully relate the your BHP that has been attained with somewhat very little boost in reality. These things really seem to do the business.
All in all this certainly sounds the mutts nuts!
I'm jealous!
Regards,
Shaun.
Thanks for that info!
I presume you have thought (and probably experimented with this) about this, but was higher compression not possible to aid in the low down response at all?
I'm from the cosworth tuning scene, where it was forbidden to have anything higher than 7.2:1 on a 500bhp build, but in the past few years many people have gone the high compression route (well higher in comparison) to "fill in" where the lag left a gap.
I fully understand your reasoning behind the gearbox.... tbh if you get lag in any car you need to select the right gear to ensure your on boost!
I imagine your cam lift is quite a bit as your using double valve springs!
The turbo you have chosen (sorry for talking about the darkside) seems to be the turbo of choice for the big BHP cossies nowadays, so I can fully relate the your BHP that has been attained with somewhat very little boost in reality. These things really seem to do the business.
All in all this certainly sounds the mutts nuts!
I'm jealous!
Regards,
Shaun.
14 March 2005, 06:30 PM
#32
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Originally Posted by David_Wallis
andy.. ramp rate was 60 or 62
**** knows what it meant...
I had to get to 2000 rpm in 4th, switch the load switch on, floor it then hit the ramp switch
Shaun, on the road its very good, depends what you want.. (im not interested in in-gear performance as thats not how 'I' drive.. down a gear works well for me)its not as linear as it looks on the graph.
due to the capacity its not bad off boost, however it is 7.5:1 CR with around 280deg cams.
**** knows what it meant...
I had to get to 2000 rpm in 4th, switch the load switch on, floor it then hit the ramp switch
Shaun, on the road its very good, depends what you want.. (im not interested in in-gear performance as thats not how 'I' drive.. down a gear works well for me
)its not as linear as it looks on the graph.due to the capacity its not bad off boost, however it is 7.5:1 CR with around 280deg cams.
David, what period of time did Pat set on the DD for the whole power run?
PS great result
Conrad
maybe =600 rpm/sec ? Thats quite fast but IIRC G force run duration is only IRO 8-10 secs
15 March 2005, 10:19 AM
#41
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bollox, just wrote a long reply shaun...
I chose lower cr due to me wanting to run big boost and possibly nitrous, the idea was it would be easier to raise the cr rather than lower it..
Trout runs a higher CR than me.. I think 8:1 or 8.5:1 would be better off boost
Cam lift is around 10.25 - 10.5mm iirc and duration is around 280deg, unsure on the overlap, Once I get vernier cam pulleys machined this should be a little better.
Cossies are using GT series now? I allways thought it was T3 / T4 hybrids??
Oh and a piece of advice, if your thinking of chasing big bhp on a scoob..dont bother!!
I chose lower cr due to me wanting to run big boost and possibly nitrous, the idea was it would be easier to raise the cr rather than lower it..
Trout runs a higher CR than me.. I think 8:1 or 8.5:1 would be better off boost
Cam lift is around 10.25 - 10.5mm iirc and duration is around 280deg, unsure on the overlap, Once I get vernier cam pulleys machined this should be a little better.
Cossies are using GT series now? I allways thought it was T3 / T4 hybrids??
Oh and a piece of advice, if your thinking of chasing big bhp on a scoob..dont bother!!
15 March 2005, 10:41 AM
#42
David,
Who is the bollox to???
The T's are old turbo's now mate, with the larger T4 being very difficult to source or repair. The GT's are the turbo's of choice now it would seem.
lol thats easy for you to say you already have over 500bhp!!!! 
Are you going to enter SS and TOTB? After seeing Andys car go, I can only assume your would be just as mental!!!
Regards,
Shaun.
Who is the bollox to???
The T's are old turbo's now mate, with the larger T4 being very difficult to source or repair. The GT's are the turbo's of choice now it would seem.
Oh and a piece of advice, if your thinking of chasing big bhp on a scoob..dont bother!!
Are you going to enter SS and TOTB? After seeing Andys car go, I can only assume your would be just as mental!!!
Regards,
Shaun.
15 March 2005, 10:50 AM
#43
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Originally Posted by Pavlo
the ramp rate relates to road speed I think
Paul, The ramp rate on the Dyno Dynamic RR refers to the duration of time you want the power run to take place over.
As Andy says some tuners choose 8-10 seconds but it is adjustable in the DD. I assumed (by the comments made by DD staff) that power runs were usually over a 15 second period.
You also start from a given RPM
Perhaps Pat can enlighten us with the setting on the Scoobyclinic Dyno.
Conrad
15 March 2005, 10:51 AM
#44
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Yeah Im running at SSO and have run at totb for the last two years whether I get selected to run this year who knows.
Im hoping the car should be in the 10's now..dunno if the driver is though! ()
Its easy to say it now as Ive done it and its cost a fair bit to get here. Id certainly do it differently if doing it again.
If you seriously want to go big bhp drop me a mail when youve worked out what you want to achieve.
David
Im hoping the car should be in the 10's now..dunno if the driver is though! (
)Its easy to say it now as Ive done it and its cost a fair bit to get here. Id certainly do it differently if doing it again.
If you seriously want to go big bhp drop me a mail when youve worked out what you want to achieve.
David
15 March 2005, 10:53 AM
#45
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Start RPM was 2000 rpm, get to 2000 rpm in 4th, flick the switch that says load. floor it.. feels like its missing and wont accellerate anymore.. then flick ramp and let it get to the red line switch ramp back to middle pos. then switch load back to middle.. Thats all I know (as thats all I had to do)
David
David
15 March 2005, 11:04 AM
#47
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runs seemed to last about 15 seconds ( i timed a few as i bored ), well the ones i timed seemed to.
Seemed like an eternity though due to the noise level actually hurting my ears. Taking my ear defenders next time.
), well the ones i timed seemed to.Seemed like an eternity though due to the noise level actually hurting my ears. Taking my ear defenders next time.
15 March 2005, 11:37 AM
#49
Conrad,
Surely the run length is defined by the ramp rate? If the ramp rate is constant, and you will run between 2 known speeds, the run time will also be fixed, but only as a by product, and of course you have to know in advance the start and end speeds.
Paul
Surely the run length is defined by the ramp rate? If the ramp rate is constant, and you will run between 2 known speeds, the run time will also be fixed, but only as a by product, and of course you have to know in advance the start and end speeds.
Paul
15 March 2005, 11:41 AM
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Paul, dont quote me on this but I seem to remember that you can input a "time factor" for how long a power run should take, this determines the "ramp rate", you always start from the same given RPM (2000 in this case) but I'm not sure TBH how that effects the end point which as David points out above is determined by the operator switching off the the "ramp switch".
Conrad
PS Sorry David, dont mean to take your thread off track
Conrad
PS Sorry David, dont mean to take your thread off track
15 March 2005, 12:07 PM
#54
David,
Not having taken much notice of the Scooby tuning scene for a number of years now (didnt have much call for Subaru stuff on the RS500 engine! ), I was more than amazed when Andy had completed a sub 11 sec 1/4 at TOTB last year (perhaps ignorant of me). Now realising that the Scooby tuning scene had matured in this country, gave me the push I needed to return back to the fold.
There does seem to be a number of cars now reaching this kind of level (proven or not), so it would seem a fair bet to say that things have certainly moved on. The obvious question of reliability will no doubt be proved (unless it already has, for which I apologise) over time.
I've been the big (well... not so big by standards nowadays) BHP route with the RS500, and the only real reason for ditching that was the age of the car and the lack of 4WD. If I had 500bhp in an Escort Cossie I doubt I would of ditched it to be honest.
So yeah..... more power is on the cards and I am presently in discussion with a number of companies, so I would be eager to hear your comments on which way you would go now if you did it again.
Regards,
Shaun.
Not having taken much notice of the Scooby tuning scene for a number of years now (didnt have much call for Subaru stuff on the RS500 engine!
), I was more than amazed when Andy had completed a sub 11 sec 1/4 at TOTB last year (perhaps ignorant of me). Now realising that the Scooby tuning scene had matured in this country, gave me the push I needed to return back to the fold.There does seem to be a number of cars now reaching this kind of level (proven or not), so it would seem a fair bet to say that things have certainly moved on. The obvious question of reliability will no doubt be proved (unless it already has, for which I apologise) over time.
I've been the big (well... not so big by standards nowadays) BHP route with the RS500, and the only real reason for ditching that was the age of the car and the lack of 4WD. If I had 500bhp in an Escort Cossie I doubt I would of ditched it to be honest.
So yeah..... more power is on the cards and I am presently in discussion with a number of companies, so I would be eager to hear your comments on which way you would go now if you did it again.
Regards,
Shaun.
15 March 2005, 12:24 PM
#55
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Id choose the company wisely.. there are a few well known companies on here I would use and some that I wouldnt.
Deside what you want the car to do, how reliable etc and then work from there..
Personally Id do it in stages, ie a decent flowing 3" exhaust such as HKS Hiper etc. dont bother with a downpipe / up-pipe /air filter as you'll only ditch it when swapping to a garrett turbo No point buying parts to have to sell them on and loose money.
things like fuel pump(s) fuel reg etc arent a prob. Search around for block (id use a EJ22T block, with either a billet crank or an STI 2.5 crank. Decide which Heads & Inlet manifold. Id use some massive head studs and decent head gaskets, modified oil pump, ACL bearings - not subaru ones and so on..
Basically dont modify the 'std' car if you ultimatley want big power, as its just a waste of money.. ie things like a tek3 etc
David
Deside what you want the car to do, how reliable etc and then work from there..
Personally Id do it in stages, ie a decent flowing 3" exhaust such as HKS Hiper etc. dont bother with a downpipe / up-pipe /air filter as you'll only ditch it when swapping to a garrett turbo
No point buying parts to have to sell them on and loose money.things like fuel pump(s) fuel reg etc arent a prob. Search around for block (id use a EJ22T block, with either a billet crank or an STI 2.5 crank. Decide which Heads & Inlet manifold. Id use some massive head studs and decent head gaskets, modified oil pump, ACL bearings - not subaru ones and so on..
Basically dont modify the 'std' car if you ultimatley want big power, as its just a waste of money.. ie things like a tek3 etc
David
15 March 2005, 12:35 PM
#56
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Whats wrong with a Tek3 David ?
You may not have seen any big bhp EcuTeK stuff (yet ) but if the Apexi can run to 556 bhp on my type R then the later OEM ECU's are more than capable of exceeding that.
Andy
ps, I know you were referring to a std remap at a lower output but just making the point !
You may not have seen any big bhp EcuTeK stuff (yet
) but if the Apexi can run to 556 bhp on my type R then the later OEM ECU's are more than capable of exceeding that.Andy
ps, I know you were referring to a std remap at a lower output but just making the point !
15 March 2005, 01:37 PM
#57
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Nothing wrong with Tek3 andy... I have seen some big bhp ecutek stuff, ok maybe I should have said tek2 instead???
David
David
15 March 2005, 06:06 PM
#58
David,
The more and more I think about it the more I'm reluctant to go the 500+ route tbh. Been there done that (albeit in a different car). I really want a conversion that I can get in, turn the key and rag the pants off it without worrying! Many people (who look at these conversions from the outside) dont realise the other things you have to sacrifice for big HP..... driveability I found to the biggest. Whether this is any different for Scoobies I have no personal experience, but I would think big HP means certain things have to be scarificed. The cost of course is another thing.... I spent the best part of £10k on the RS500, and that was primarily engine work that was on an already prepared 400bhp engine. 
Scary!!! So I can only congratulate people like yourself that complete projects to this level.
By past experience you are also constantly monitoring things at this power level, which is'nt too bad, and certainly helps when you don't rely on the car for the daily drive (which I would never recommend should be the case when going to these extremes.... even though some do).
Perhaps I am already talking my self out of modification and I vowed I would never do it again..... but once you have been there it is very hard not to look back!
If you had your time again would you of settled for say 400bhp knowing what you know now? I suspect the drive behind doing what you have done dictates an answer to that question.
Perhaps I'm destined to sticking with the PPP....... though I very much doubt the excitement of reading such threads as this will ensure that stays faithful for much longer!
The decisions and the pain this creates!!!!!
Regards,
Shaun.
The more and more I think about it the more I'm reluctant to go the 500+ route tbh. Been there done that (albeit in a different car). I really want a conversion that I can get in, turn the key and rag the pants off it without worrying!
Many people (who look at these conversions from the outside) dont realise the other things you have to sacrifice for big HP..... driveability I found to the biggest. Whether this is any different for Scoobies I have no personal experience, but I would think big HP means certain things have to be scarificed. The cost of course is another thing.... I spent the best part of £10k on the RS500, and that was primarily engine work that was on an already prepared 400bhp engine. Scary!!! So I can only congratulate people like yourself that complete projects to this level.By past experience you are also constantly monitoring things at this power level, which is'nt too bad, and certainly helps when you don't rely on the car for the daily drive (which I would never recommend should be the case when going to these extremes.... even though some do).
Perhaps I am already talking my self out of modification and I vowed I would never do it again..... but once you have been there it is very hard not to look back!
If you had your time again would you of settled for say 400bhp knowing what you know now? I suspect the drive behind doing what you have done dictates an answer to that question.
Perhaps I'm destined to sticking with the PPP....... though I very much doubt the excitement of reading such threads as this will ensure that stays faithful for much longer!
The decisions and the pain this creates!!!!!
Regards,
Shaun.
15 March 2005, 08:59 PM
#60
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Shaun, a few of the big guns, now with well over 400 of each, have all said that perhaps as a daily driver/better car less is actually more. Even Andy has said he prefers driving his 330wrx over his 500+ Sti5.
My own 2.0l at 350ish was superb, hardly ever looked under the bonnet (except when doing more mods), granted i had gauges etc to watch, and drove the thing like it was stolen, was superb to drive. The chasis and brakes coped with everything.
With driving my 2.5 for 8000 miles, there was never really much fun in it, due to lots of niggles, etc.
I hope to get a drive of davids at the weekend, perhaps on the road, and perhaps at Elvington. Will be interesting to see what its like.
Steven
My own 2.0l at 350ish was superb, hardly ever looked under the bonnet (except when doing more mods), granted i had gauges etc to watch, and drove the thing like it was stolen, was superb to drive. The chasis and brakes coped with everything.
With driving my 2.5 for 8000 miles, there was never really much fun in it, due to lots of niggles, etc.
I hope to get a drive of davids at the weekend, perhaps on the road, and perhaps at Elvington. Will be interesting to see what its like.
Steven