T5NYW

iTrader: (4)

Jon,

What do Broquets look like?

IIRC Prodrive have use something that looks like Lead Shot in the Tank!

Tony

Fat Boy

Phill, let me know when you've space in your racing school and I'll sign up

FWIW I wasn't particularly going for it as that was my first lap of the day, so i was planning on taking it easy to warm the tyres etc - as you can see from me cruising through most of Becketts on a trailing throttle. It was only coming out of the last section of Becketts, before the hangar straight, that I thought "shall I see what the difference between the two cars is"? You can hear the engine note change.

The whole title/film thing is all pretty tongue in cheek as that is the first bit of video I've ever managed to get onto my PC and I was tempted by Windows movie maker , so it's not really meant to be taken seriously, but the bottom line is there is not much difference in the real world between the cars no matter what the keyboard warriors/ bmw club/ porsche drivers club tell you.To be scrupulously fair, my P1 isn't completely standard as it's been decatted and has had a Tek 3 from BRD, plus some brake and suspension work. BRD's estimate was 300 bhp ish/ 300ft lb, so more than standard but hardly monster mods

Silverstone is a funny place as it's so wide that about the only things that ever look seriously quick there are F1 or other serious bits of kit. A road going saloon is never going to look particularly fast around there - even an RB5 WR . I have other video from places like Brands that looks far quicker but is probably much slower overall.


Re the 318I comments- LOL - It was an M3 and he certainly spanked it out of the pits, but then he also displayed impeccable track etiquette by pulling over so soon after Vale - that's what comes of owning a trackday business I suppose.

Anyway, it's not the only M3 that i have done this too on track days and that's not the only time I did it to him that day, but what does that prove? Noth much, Schumacher, or even the worst minardi driver, would probably pi55 all over any of us in a 318i .

johnfelstead

Yes, i mean when it came out, you can now remap the MY99 onwards ECU's with EcuTek, but at the time of the P1 release EcuTek didnt exist, that piece of genious was still all in Stephen Done's head..

The GEMS controller for the centre diff is nothing to do with the board used in the early generation PPP's which was basically a boost clamp, the centre diff controller is independant of the engine ECU. Prodrive now use EcuTek for the PPP mapping.

johnfelstead

yep, positive. Just buy a bottle of NF if you want decent det protection or better power on our crappy fuel.

johnfelstead

If you feed the engines with decent fuel the STi engine will be slightly more performant due to its knock control algorithm, but thats not the main reason they are quicker.

The main reason is the gearing and diferentials/transmition systems. TypeR/RA's have closer ratio gearboxes with lower gearing, they also have a diferent torque split putting more torque to the rear wheels which gives a better chassis balance. They also have better LSD's for performance, with a plated rear diff, DCCD plated electomagnetic centre diff and on the TypeRA a front LSD, this adds up to far more traction and balance when you start to exploit the cars chassis. They also have bigger vented brake disks at the rear with 2 pot rather than sliding calipers and larger wheel bearings and driveshafts which helps eliminate pad knock off giving better braking performance. Steering is better too, with a 2.5 Turn quickrack, some of the Type RA's have a 2.25 turn quickrack which improves the car for on the limit driving. You also get a fully automatic intercooler spray system which helps a little in hot weather.

The P1 is a great car, but its not as good as a TypeR/RA as far as performance is concerned.

babber

John,

So is the Type R / RA slower flat out then? Due to lower ratio top gear? And wouldn't all the extra drive train cause more transmission loss?

Thanks Phill

babber

Fatboy,

Was just having a laugh when I posted about you driving like a girl The P1 driver was driving like a *** as well, lol.

My driving school is flat out at the moment, but could fit you in around April I'm sure if you ask John Felstead might be able to fit you in sooner or help you understand where your going wrong!!

Anyway in standard format the RB5 WRSports are both faster and more exclusive than anything you guys have mentioned

Thanks Phill

PS My best Impreza having driven most years models and types have got to be the STI6 RA V-limited, but would take me ages to get used to the diffs

scoobynutta555

I'd mostly go along with that. However, in terms of the average driver, the P1 is better for exploiting all the power and handling available. The typeR is great for hooning around a track or a weekend power slider, but day to day the clear choice is the P1, especailly when warranty is thrown into the equation (mine has 18 months left). I only managed around 200 miles out of a tank in my typeR yet have achieved well over 300 miles out of the p1 on many occasions. The DCCD often raved about is little more than a gimmick for an average day to day drive along with the waterspray with its very limited tank capacity.

Not much mention about the standard 16" wheels on the typeR

If I was to want a weekend car, and I'll probably be going that way soon, I'd get a typeR and sell the P1. Of course I'd be risking a bill for several grand if the engine went though. But there's no way I'll have one again as a main car.

johnfelstead

Is 160MPH too slow for you? Didnt think so.

TypeR/RA's have lower transmition losses than Impreza's with the non DCCD gearbox and Viscous coupling rear/centre LSD.

johnfelstead

Nope, dont agree at all. The handling charicteristics of the TypeR/RA are significantly diferent in terms of balance. The P1 is fundementally an understeer limited car due to its torque distribution, the TypeR/RA is a more neutral balance required for maximising a chassis grip and general drivability and enjoyment. All it needs is a little bit of common sense thought aplied to maximise the grip levels available via the manual DCCD, it's not rocket science. Subaru recognised that for Mr Average that was asking a bit much (i am talking about non enthusiasts here, not your average scoobynet reader IMHO) so they developed the DCCD-A which has been standard fit on JDM and is now standard fit on the MY05 STi Type UK, so the latest UK spec Impreza has a much better chassis balance then all the previous UK spec models apart from the WR1, which already incorporated the DCCD-A as part of its spec. The diference between the DCCD and DCCD-A is there is an auto controller on the centre diff to take any thought process requirements away, there is a manual overide for those wanting to control the system themselves.

If you are worried about fuel economy why are you driving a Subaru? If you are doing a lot of motorway miles just buy a Limited version of the TypeR/RA. they have a 22MPH/1000rpm 5th gear for cruising, rather than the 19.4MPH/1000rpm of the non Limited versions. See my comment about about how the DCCD is far from a gimmick, it's standard fit on the MY05 STi TypeUK in its latest version, and about time too!

There arnt that many Type R's on 16" wheels out there now, but if you do buy one and want to go to 17" or 18" buy a set with the thousands £ you save on the initial purchase price, you can even buy some decent tyres rather than run those horendous Pirelli's the P1 came with as standard.

If you look after the car properly, there is no reason why a typeR/RA will blow its engine any earlier than a P1, its the same engine. Feed it with decent fuel and an OB or get a decent EcuTek remap and you wont have a problem before a P1 driven in the same way.

robby1

I take it u dont like the p1 then.

Fat Boy

If I may speak on behalf of Felly in his absence here - I'm sure he'll add his bit - he's not saying that the P1 is a bad car, it's just not as good as a type r/RA down mainly IMHO the gearbox back. The p1 suspension set up put in place by Mike Wood admittedly makes the P1 less of a handful on the Uk's bumpier than Japan roads than the standard JDM sti setup, but that's about it.

Me, i liked the look of the P1 and the warranty, however I would have much preferred them to leave the type R transmission diff set up in place instead of effectively retrofitting an StiV setup, however that would have meant no ABS which was probably seen as a marketing no no. If I keep it ( 2 kids now though ), I'll be fitting a dccd box, R180 rear axle and the diff ecu to turn it into a good looking Type R

Mine's still not slow on track as several laps in the past in close proximity to say John's late lamented RA at Bedford showed, or many laps in the past at exactly the same rate as Mellow/Chris King when he had his P1 or Stef for example shows, but for example it takes just one corner at Bedford to point out the difference between a P1 and R/RAs with dccd. At Bank (turn 8?) I would have to be lifting off and/or trail braking to try to get the nose to stick/ turn in due to the 50:50 VC split, whereas John, even with the extra weight of Mutant Matt in the car with him , was each time able to turn in miles before me and to exit the corner at a jaunty angle and about 50 feet further up the road from me than he was before the bend while i was still fighting the understeer.

Phill, judging by your posts on this thread ( e.g. "dccd has higher transmission losses?" pmsl)and in previous ones I'd have to put you at the inexperienced end of the track day spectrum with regard to scoobies, as opposed to John or those others of us who have been doing them for years, plus have other competition experience, so I'll pass on the kind school offer, thanks, but I hope your F1 test goes well ROFL.

CustomScoobyIOM

Yep thats the Broquets.

PMSL! Too true. Subaru isn't about economy at all. Hence why I am using a BMW 330D.

Jon.

Davey P

iTrader: (1)

What are Broquets?

David Lock

If you telephone me on 01903 745441 after 10.30 this morning I will tell you all about Broquet

Or PM me.

David Lock

Mic

I see it's back to the old Type-r versus the P1 again, everyone has thier own prefrences and look for different things in a car. They are both terrific cars but I chose to buy a type-r becuase it's just that bit quicker and cheaper than a P1.

babber

Inexperienced end of the track day spectrum, Yes!! I reckon I've only done around ten track days over the four years of owning a scooby turbo. Do I do them to be the fastest on the track..... No.... I do it for the enjoyment and have had some cracking days

Lol, like the comment about the F1 testing

So we are all agreed, a P1 is faster (flat out) than a Type R?? And that should also mean the RB5 is faster (flat out) than the Type R??

Phill

CustomScoobyIOM

Incase you are interested in the Broquet then David Lock is your man to speak to

Jon.

Fat Boy

Phill,

You're still completely missing the point - any hire car, or a Saxo with a flamer kit, is quicker than everything else on the road. Fact

babber

That's me all over mate, always missing the point

Tell you what though, your absolutely correct. Whenever my car has been in the garage for whatever reason and I get a loan car, it seems to go like ****!!!! I found that if the car has sign writing, it's even quicker and the tires appear to squeel more than my car does

Driving with the mobile resting between my shoulder and ear adds another 50 BHP or so it would seem

This thread is soooooo funny Phill

Adam M

Surely if you want a good looking type r you should buy a 22B?

quick point to say if you want to retro fit a dccd to a P1, don't bother with the r180 rear diff. To get the proper effect of the dccd you do need an agreesive rear LSD but this can be found by way of a plated R160. This will save you the grief of retro fitting the R180 hubs, driveshafts and two pot brakes.

Alternatively you could fit the R180 diff and then have some custom driveshafts made.

babber

I always find adding a sample protein mouthwash to every other tank full of optimax helps to stop knock and you can see an improvement on my knocklink

Phill

Adam M

Phill,

have you tried it?

don't knock it if you haven't!

not convinced of the octane rating claims, but the engine certainly revs more cleanly with it in and is smoother. On my old car I did return an extra 15 miles to a tank too.

I liked it enough to buy it again on my second car, but would never use it as a substitute for OB. But then few people run their cars at 102 octane for every tank like I do.

babber

??? How can it make the car rev more cleanly and smoother??? It don't make sense!!

As I say my special cream does that as well It's Super Super Unleaded (thanks to the NHS )

Phill

THOMO

johnny where you on TOTB .IF SO I WATCHED YOU ON MY DVD LAST NIGHT

Fat Boy

Phill lol

Adam,

A 22B Is better looking than a type R, but, come on, that's not hard is it?


I thought about keeping the r160 , but, if I go ahead, it will be because I will keep the car as a toy to be progressively modified, including the engine dept, so I fancy get the stronger driveshafts, hubs, better rear brakes, etc at the same time to handle the extra grunt going to the back. Anyway, it's all kind of immaterial at the moment as I'm currently having to fight off the "let's get a diesel people carrier" millie tant movement

David Lock

Hi Adam,

Following Singapore link may be of interest to anyone who wants to know about the sort of thing Broquet can offer. Also worth hitting the link in bottom right hand corner about Evo and WRX where 90 octane is standard juice. DL

http://www.broquet.com.sg/__48256B8E...256BCF00121066

Adam M

millie tant???? hmmmm

Fat boy, is your name a relatively new one, did you used to post as something else?

Phill,

once again, you are arguing from the point of view of someone who knows has no experience.

You could argue that you didn't understand how injecting something as chemically inert as water could never give your engine more power, especially since water is incompressible and causes engines to hydraulic, yet water injection gives you just that, more power, assuming you know how to take advantage of it.

don't write it off just because you don't understand it.

johnfelstead

Johnny? my mates 2 year old calls me that.

I am on the DVD from TOTBI and TOTBII.

I am not saying the P1 is crap, i am saying the STi5 TypeR/RA is i a higher performance, better balanced and more fun to drive car.

johnfelstead

Adam, you dont run 102 octane all the time, stop telling porkies man. You have a map specifically for 97RON too.