This'll make the run-up to the rumoured April/May General Election somewhat more interesting .

 

As I said in an earlier post, this ban is political and an example of the worst kind of class warfare. I doubt very much, as that Labour minister said, that the fox's welfare has anything to do with the bill.

The original post on this thread is an indication of inverse snobbery by a man who has his own head so far up TB's backside that he cannot see what a foolish way it was to write the post.

If he had any sense at all he would realise, as has been pointed out often enough, that most of those who take part in or rely on hunting for their living are working class country dwellers. They certainly do not earn the sort of money that he so often swanks about to us that he gets for his part time services. Kettle, Pot and Black spring to mind.

Whether we agree with fox hunting or not, it really weakens the argument to hold up those who take part as "Toffs" and is just not true anyway.

Les

 

All the above is very interesting but quite honestly I just can't wait to get home tonight, get the gun, jump in the ole Landrover and tour round the farm (then some of the other farms I shoot on) and blow away as many of the little f**kers as I can.

I just can't decide ,,,, shotgun ,,,, rifle ,,,, shotgun ,,,, rifle ,,,,, oh what the f**k I'll take both !

And yes I really am telling the truth and this is the only contribution I would like to make to this particular thread.

 

Isnt that illegal?

 

Err no , not at all ! Why should it be illegal to shoot vermin on your own land ? with a licensed firearm - honestly you town folk have no idea !

 

Enjoy your fox massacre if that's what you get off on jdc1000, then good luck to you.

What you won't be able to do in future without breaking the law is do your killing thing with a bunch of other people using dogs.
Result!

 

I have never hunted with dogs / horses, nothing against it, but trust me it is KNOWWHERE near as effective a five experienced gunmen on the back of a pick-up with a huge searchlight

 

Point taken and agreed

I'm sorry, the reply was not meant to insinuate that Farmers were mercilous killers Farmers even though have endured lose of Livestock, have only 'Abided' the Fox on there Land because of the Hunt. This would not have been the case If it wasn't for the Hunt. Over the last 100 Farmers would have years had little choice but to hunt Foxes themselves. Which they would have done FAR more effeciently than Toffs

Urban Foxes have become a nuisence in Urban and Citys Streets. Most are injured by Household rubbish, Sharp objects in Black Bags and Bins etc, Pets and Traffic.

Tony

 

Personally, I am not a supporter of fox hunting but a number of people, have a very jaundiced view of the activity. Many are town dwellers and have no idea of what the hunt and its periferals involve.
It is clear that some people have a big chip on their shoulder.
How can some people appear to think more about a fox, (going from their posts on here), than they do about fellow human beings?
It is not just for "toffs". There are many ordinary, common people with modest incomes who hunt and many more who are involved in the hunting scene without actually riding with the hounds. I accept that the image portrayed by a number of people involved in hunting is arrogant and they do little to help their cause but surely they have a right to follow their passtime.
What about the lives of the people who will be genuinely affected by a ban. Black smiths, livery stables, kennels, tack shops, game keepers, etc., etc. and the people employed by them. The hunt is part of the fabric of rural society in many areas.

There are far more important things needing attention in our current society than the welfare of a relatively small number of foxes.

In the same way that many of us have Subarus as a passtime then other people have horses and hunting as their leisure activity. There will be people on here that spend more on modifying and running their cars than it would cost to go hunting. How would you feel if modifying motor cars or track days were banned because it is harmful to our environment?

Many people hide behind the welfare of foxes when really it is actually a class act, putting one over on the toffs and so on by a section of society, by and large from an urban environment and without a detailed knowledge of what is involved.

Why not live and let live.

 

It is sad 40 men and women, 30 Horses and 25 dogs, go out chasing and end up probably killing 0-3 foxes. I agree it's not the most Humane way to kill a Fox and definately 'not Politicaly Correct' one. In reality it's far less effiecent than 4 peeps with guns and 2 dogs will kill 10-20 and not just a running Fox.

Towny Polititions have scant regard for 'The Countryside Ecology'. let alone Village Pubs, Post Offices and schools. Policies by white ties have nearly destroyed all village life soon it will be illegal to Morris Dance (hopefully) LOL

The Hunt, has no wish to wipe out the Fox. At the moment the Ecology of Countryside/Farmer/Fox/livestock is being maintained. There are just too many healthy wild Foxes at the moment. The wild fox ise 'allowed to live' on the Farmers Land only because of the Hunt. The Farmer has maintained this 'Countryside Ecology' for many generations but know it seems Polititions know best

Now Polititions have listen to 'votes' and the Majority of people who know absolutely diddly squit about the countryside or the Fox, a total ban on Hunting and a will soon be in place yet could only get a particial ban on smoking in Public Places and can't stop the suffering of Children in war torn countries like Africa and Irac etc.

Has anyone spared thought for the poor Fox after the Ban? NO
Will the Fox live happy ever after ? NO

Polititions have signed a death Warrant for the Fox!! A fox hunting ban without any measures in Place for it's future presevation Total vote catching lunacy IMHO

Two years after the Ban, the Fox will be on the 'Red list' of endangered spiecies and will be nearly extinct in 5 years.

Sorry if I'm the odd one out, but they have had years to think this through and didn't

Tony

Ps Revised post as hopefully make more sence than before Personally I would be in favour of Hunting under controls. And as Harvey said were are far more important Humane issuses should have been addressed first

 

Good post T5NYW,

Les

 

'custodians' of the countryside

That would be the fat stuck up toffs then with lots of money and their finger up their ***** then

 

well said. "In Germany, they first came for the gypsies, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a gypsy. Then they came for the Bolsheviks, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Bolshevik. Then they came for the Jews, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew. Then they came for the trade unionists and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist. Then they came for the Catholics. I didn't speak up then because I was a Protestant. Then they came for me, and there was no one left to speak up."

 

Has anyone considered the parallel of deer stalking?

In times not so far back, red deer in Scotland were hunted for food using just about anything people could get their hands on. Bows and arrows, nets, snares, gin traps, hounds and flintlock rifles. Often the herds would be pursued by hundreds of locals on foot and the gentry on horseback with hounds a la foxhunt.

With the arrival of the more accurate and powerful side-loading, rifle barrelled weapons deerhounds became superfluous to the hunt in the 1890’s. Ponies are still used in some areas, but they are gradually becoming superseded by Landies and quads.

My point? The pantomime of the deer hunt has been phased out by technological progress, not by politicos, but has become redundant all the same. Although culling methods have become increasingly more efficient, there is still an abundance of red deer in Scotland. To the extent that specialist hunters will have to be flown in again this year to shoot them out of season. Foxhunts will have to bite the biscuit and evolve. They are not effective and cannot hide behind the coat tails of land management and vermin control.

The fox will not become extinct.

Wild mammal populations fluctuate according to the environment available to them, their food supply and the clemency of the prevailing conditions. At the moment, fox populations have expanded to the extent that they have encroached upon inner cities, which is not their natural environment, signifying that their natural environment has become saturated. It is not the case that they have been forced to pastures new as I could go out tonight with a lamp and quite easily find roughly six foxes in four hours on the fields, only to see one in Glasgow in the early hours going round waste bins.

Foxes require to be controlled, and by a more efficient method than an equine pageant which is cruel and undignified to its quarry in the extreme.

Far better a clean shot, where required, than torn apart by beagles.

K.

 

Hunting is a sport as is stalking. They have both evolved along different lines.

I don't make any claims for vermin control or any of that stuff. Hunting is sport. Why shouldn't people be allowed to get on with the sport they choose? Sure you can talk about it being cruel to the fox but that is the way life is sometimes. People die in motor races, people have even died on football pitches. Those are sports as well, they don't control vermin, they don't produce food.

Hunting is just the thin edge of the wedge, perhaps even motor racing and football with attract the attentions of the ultra-left but I think that unlikely as they are sports which are enjoyed by the industrial proletariat. If they had been sports enjoyed by the peasants then it wouldn't be long before they would have got the chop.

Why can't we just allow people to enjoy the sport they choose without needing to make up their minds for them? Because we have a nanny state, and there are a lot of people living in it who need nanny to tell them what to think and do. In the end this runs a lot deeper than hunting and it will, eventually, impact upon all of us. The same people who want hunting banned want your car to be remotely controlled, by them of course, so you will not be doing anything dangerous, or cruel, or damaging to the environment or just something that they don't want you to do.

This is the thin end of the wedge and it might be you next, when it is don't expect the hunt, or the anglers, or the guns, or the motorists or maybe even the footballers to be there to help you.

 

Having read your argument, I’m inclined to agree with some of your points and disagree with others.

People die in motor races. Granted, but there are less deaths now than thirty years ago (thanks mostly to Sir Jackie Stewart), and the drivers elect to compete in them.

Volition.

Footballers die, sure, but they would probably have died running for a bus; the situation would provide the same circumstances.

I wondered when the angling / fishing thing would rear its head. There is a distinction. I consider myself a sportsman, who has been gamefishing for longer than I’ve not, with the occasional piece of shooting thrown in.

What I have learned over the last twenty-plus years of fieldsports experience is that you always try to give your quarry the respect it deserves. If fishing, two taps on the head with a blunt instrument will cater, if shooting, endeavour to ensure that your eye is good, your rifle is within its range, and you can shoot the appropriate target area. If you're not equipped for either, don't do it.

Both execute a quick, clean kill, much quicker than your average Tesco’s chicken drumstick or lamb chop had in its last moments ie. captive bolt.

So, excuse me, where do foxhunts fit into this equation?

The rationale behind my post is that these hunts serve no viable purpose, are archaic, purely hierarchichal and do not accord the beast the final respect it should be given :

A quick, clean death.

Foxhunting is not a Sport.

Okay, it might be me next, so are you saying that even though I don’t agree with foxhunting, I should side with those that do?

No way.

Firstly I will defend my own actions on their own justifications as and when it is appropriate; secondly I will not ally myself with those who want to exhibit cruelty, when there are more humane and effective, but less Socially received alternatives available.

K.