source gov.uk

 

Cough up.

You say you're a dealer - act like one.

Take the profits sure, but sort out the crap you sell too. Swings and roundabouts.

 

No, when the car was sold it had a latent defect that meant the engine wasn't going to last.

Some engine failures can be sudden.
Some engine failure can be caused in seconds from abuse or misuse.



The buyer is entitled to a reasonable level of service and reliability, given the car's age, mileage and price, and a dead engine in the space of a few weeks is not reasonable unless the car was virtually given away.

So what is a reasonable level of service - 1 week, 1 year, 10 years?????

Im not fighting for the trader but i feel that unless he is a proper registered trader (i think this is the key question here) there is nothing much that can be done. If the sale was equivilant to a private sale i.e he is not a proper trader then there is no come back.

 

That's the big question - was the car abused or not?

If it was abused, then it's the buyer's hard luck.

If it wasn't, then it's reasonable to assume that the engine must have already had a defect. It's exceptionally unlikely that an engine would go from perfectly OK to dead in the space of a couple of weeks' normal use. Wear & tear builds up over time, often without symptoms.

How long would you expect a used car to last if you bought it yourself?

Personally if I'd paid a reasonable market price for, say, a '96-97 WRX or STI I'd expect a good six months before any major mechanical failure. If the car were newer (say, '01-'02) then I'd expect a year, and if it were an early model ('93-'94) then maybe 3 months would be reasonable. It's subjective, though.

 

Don't dealers have sort of insurance for this sort of thing happening? Isn't that what a warranty is?

Not being cocky I'm asking a genuine question. My EX GF bought a 16V H reg golf a few years ago from a dealer and the engine went 2 weeks later. They umm'd and ahh'd for about 2 days and knew they didn't have a leg to stand on so replaced the engine with a brand spanker from VW.

You need to find out in the eyes of the law what is classed a private seller who sells a few cars here and there and a full dealer.

Flogging import Scoobs is a bit dodgy IMHO without suitable means to put it right if one goes pop! Not getting at you but I'd feel safer if I knew I could solve a customer problem without getting into a big row over liability.

 

We sell imported Subaru and a few UK ones that we take as a trade in. API is a member of BIMTA which is the British Importers Motor Trade Association and we would get jumped on by them should we sell a duff motor, or behave badly to a customer.

Cars are prepared properly, Serviced with a cam belt change and we automatically put a 6 months warranty on the engine - just the engine. We fund it ourselves.

We find that it gives customer peace of mind and they then buy with confidence. I am sure there are some on here who have bought from API and may have an opinion.

If you are a dealer however small, you need to behave correctly, a reputation can be ruined quickly for the sake of a small amount of suffering when a job goes wrong.

David APi Engines / APi Impreza

 

It's a bit of late advice but i'd advise you to link up with an aftermarket warranty company and add the price of their warranty onto the end value of the vehicles you sell. If a customer says they don't want the warranty trying to get a few quid off then tell em to walk.

 

Mechanical breakdown warranties are a WASTE OF MONEY on a Subaru as we see more rejections than acceptances. Save the cost and put it towards the cost of the engine failure should it happen.

David APi Engines / APi Impreza

 

On what grounds?

Seriously - I'm buying an import STI myself which comes with a 1 yr warranty, but I'm undecided about paying to extend it to 3 yrs when that expires. Why might a warranty not pay out if the engine goes bang?

 

...!

 

That's your problem - you're not making enough to cover your liabilities. Even at 'only' 5 cars a month it was only a matter of time before you had to foot a large bill - that's no reflection on you or your cars, just random chance and statistics.

Buying a car from a dealer usually costs a lot more than £300 over the trade price, but you do get peace of mind that if something goes wrong it'll be sorted. I think we can now all start to see where that money goes...

 

Second-hand cars - consumer rights
THE LAW - BASIC RIGHTS

When you buy goods from a trader you enter into a legally binding contract governed by the Sale of Goods Act 1979 (as amended by the Sale and Supply of Goods Act 1994 and the Sale and Supply of Goods to Consumers Regulations 2002). The law gives buyer and seller rights and responsibilities and applies to the sale of second-hand vehicles just as much as to all other goods. When you buy from a motor trader you have the right to expect the car to be:


of satisfactory quality;
fit for its purpose, including any special purpose made known to the seller;
as described.
There is no exact definition of 'satisfactory quality', although the law lists some factors to be taken into account. However, when you have bought a second-hand vehicle, you must consider the age, price, mileage, description applied, and all other relevant circumstances when trying to decide whether it is of satisfactory quality. Your expectations will have to be different when you are buying a low mileage two-year-old car than when you are buying a high mileage, ten-year-old vehicle. However, the car must certainly be:


fit to be used on the road;
in a condition which reflects its age and price;
reasonably reliable.
When you buy as a consumer from a motor trader, your legal rights under the Sale of Goods Act 1979 cannot be taken away or reduced. An example of an attempt to do so is a notice such as 'sold as seen'. Such phrases are meaningless and cannot alter your rights. Any warranty or guarantee can only be given in addition to your legal rights, not instead of them. You can take legal action under the Sale of Goods Act for up to six years after the date of the contract but it would usually be unrealistic to consider legal action for defects on second-hand cars, especially older vehicles, once you have had them in use for a reasonable length of time. Each case is different, so it will be best to take advice before you decide what to do.


http://www.tradingstandards.gov.uk/c...V0003-1011.txt

 

Sorry, Been away for the weekend - just catching up.

ALL Subaru and most of the other engines inspected here by mechanical breakdown insurers [ M.B.I. ] get rejected because of ' Lack of lubrication or oil quality, or amount, causing cavitation or breakdown of the oil film '

This immediately puts the onus on the operator to have checked the oil level etc., etc. and thus is not insured and thus not covered. It's a well thought out excuse and almost impossible to argue against.

Just last month one of the regular inspectors came to look at a UK Impreza engine. I showed it to him, together with a comment ' you've rejected the last five, come on play the game, it's time you passed one '. Lo! and behold, it was accepted to the £1000 limit, yet showed no sign of anything different to all the other crank failures that he had looked at and rejected over the last 12 months.

Cynical ??: You bet ! Angry for my customers ?: double the bet, frustrated?; definitely.

I say again, in the case of an engine failure on a Subaru, M.B.I's are worthless and there should be a law against them being sold to a Subaru owner.

David APi Engines / APi Impreza

 

I'll second David that 3rd party warranties are a complete and utter waste of money. Your much better sticking the money you'd have spent on one into the bank for a time when you may need it.

Dave.
Engine claim denied - Excuse - We don't cover bolts working loose - My response - 'not suitable for an open forum but quite a lot of four letter words'

 

How can they prove the operator didn't check the oil level before problem ? Its not warranty holdings this guy works for is it...?

You should sell a warranty with every car though, whether it gets rejected or not the examiner finds a fault and thus it doesn't implicate you with the failure.

 

[QUOTE=CataIunya]? Its not warranty holdings this guy works for is it...?


Certainly is !!