STI -V4

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B0DSKI

iTrader: (17)

Bad luck M8 but if u wrote sold as seen on the Receipt then he aint got a leg to stand on. Might sound a bit harsh but the bloke who bought it might well of done summin to it that your not aware of so it's up to him to foot the bill for the new engine/Rebuild. One of the pitfalls of buying a used car privatley!

scoobynutta555

He has no leg to stand on whatsoever.

codek

he has no leg to stand on with or without that receipt...

EVEN if you knew the engine was on it's way out, he wouldnt even then be able to do anything about it - thats assuming he could even prove you knew, which you didnt!

billythekid

Just to clarify there is no such thing as "sold as seen".

rallycol

iTrader: (4)

What about a painting!

AndyC_772

iTrader: (2)

Not true, unless you're talking about traders. Private sales are always very much 'as seen'. Writing this on the receipt just ensures that both parties are absolutely clear on this point and that there are no misunderstandings. NOT making this clear doesn't mean that an implied warranty exists - it doesn't.

You're only liable if you knew of or suspected an engine problem, and you were asked whether any such problem existed, and you lied or failed to tell the whole truth. As long as you didn't actively misrepresent the car then you have no liability.

My old scooby suffered a big-end failure at 61000 miles. The day before it happened I'd have told you quite openly and honestly that there was nothing wrong with the engine - it's a sudden failure that often has no warning at all. In my case it was a UK car with FSSH, which is particularly unusual. STIs let go rather more often and it's down to incorrect fuel/lack of remap, or the extra power giving increased bearing loads which in turn makes them more susceptible to any lubrication problems that may occur (eg. faulty oil pumps). MAF sensors die too, sometimes with no symptoms.

AndyC_772

iTrader: (2)

ps. it also tends to happen shortly after a service if the correct oil change procedure isn't followed, thanks to temporary oil starvation in the bearings. Had the car just been serviced?

It's totally gutting when it does happen, though, regardless of whose fault it may or may not be. I really feel for the guy

billythekid

To clarify, in law, "Sold as Seen" means nothing.

The private seller must accurately describe the vehicle, and if this is not done the buyer may take their own legal action post sale.

However in this case, it seems that the problem did not exist until after the sale - so no problem.

codek

yup.

but even if he did know something was up, he's still ok, because unless the guy explicitly asked him will the engine blow up, then he's not lied...

StickyMicky

ohh how opinions change re: the lancer evo bloke

deano

Just thinking that myself.

jjones

didn't the lancer bloke know the water pump was failing tho and didn;t replace which lead to head gasket failure?

bit different if that is the case.

elgordano

but the buyer didn't ask if the water pump was knackered so the seller didn't lie !!

jjones

no but he did post on the internet stating that it was knackered and needed replacing. he sold it with knowledge that it was living on borrowed time. this was, if you are to take sti-v4 word for it, not the case here.

having spoken to api david it seems quite common for engines to go shortly after changing hands (talking in weeks). noe this could be because of a number of well documented reasons (particularly with imports)

1) wrong fuel used
2) top speed testing/0-60 canings
3) oil service by new owner/garage not following refill procedure

STI -V4

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AndyC_772

iTrader: (2)

In that case - sorry, but I think you're going to have to fork out for the cost of the repair in this case. Even if the car seemed OK when you sold it, the requirement that the car be 'fit for purpose' and 'of merchantable quality' means you're responsible for fixing it - after all, it's hard to deny that even though there may have been no symptoms visible at the time of sale, the engine was in fact on its way out. To do so would mean proving that the car had been mistreated by its new owner in a way that could reasonably be expected to lead to engine failure.

dj219957

If the car was sold as seen i say that the buyer has no come back and you should not worry. When i bought my scoob from a proper 4x4 dealer and the clutch went in the first week he gave me 100 quid towards it as a goodwill guesture - he didnt have to give me anything really as i accepted the car in its current condition. I even called trading standards about it and they said i could do nothing and that the best thing i could do was politley approach the dealer agiain and ask for a compromise. I did and i got the 100 quid.
The buyer could have done al maner of things with the car - extreme he could have took it round a race track for day!
I also agree with the fuel and oil issues

Andy

Luminous

iTrader: (3)

It is probably best for you to get in touch with Trading Standards or Citizens Advice Bureau. Then you will have their take on the situation, and what they think you should do. At least that way you are more likely to know where you stand.

donutman

if you are a trader you can not sell a car as "sold as seen". if there is something wrong with the car it has to be written on the receipt,and agreed between you when it is sold. as stated above the car has to be fit for purpose (there is a unwritten rule of around 6 months (although some trading standards websites do mention this sort of time frame)). i have just sue'd a car dealer for my impreza blowing up after 11 days this was deamed to be unfit for purpose. your best bet would be to offer the guy half and hope he takes it.

(btw i would expect you could get someone to rebuild it for less than 3k)

chris's scooby

I thought cars sold by the trade had to come with a minimum 3 month warrenty?

STI -V4

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WRX Wannabe

My classic blew up 3 days after a service

W 2000 34K on the clock

I was driving hard on the day but IMHO it was something that had been done in the service(or not been done).

I hope you get it sorted out M8

Gidney&Knowlesy

Customer had just purchased from an importer a similar aged car, he drove it to us & as soon as it turned up you could hear the big end knocking away.

The import company after 2 weeks of customer calls picked it up & replaced the engine.....

STI -V4

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Gear Head

iTrader: (2)

I really don't understand how some people can assume that the phrase "sold as seen" is invalid. Thats the whole point of the concept. The car was sold in its current condition to the seller. If he didnt like that arrangement, he should have walked away. Life is risk, not an endless hunt for compensation. He hasn't got a leg to stand on.
Its probably the all to common mistake of lack of research on his behalf. ie, poor quality fuel, not letting the engine warm up and cool down correctly.
Dont worry m8, you're in the clear!!!

jjones

becasue he is a trader. therefore sold as seen is not applicable because he is a trader the goods sold have to be fit for purpose. this car, in the eyes of a magistrate, was not fit for purpose.

dj219957

Disagree. When the car was sold it was fit for purpose. The customer accepted it in its current condition which was fit for purpose. There was no question about the condition of the engine when it was bought. The seller could not have know about it. Fit for purpose does not cover wear and tear. That engine could have gone on for months with no problem or years and would he have taken it back after say a year - no.

AndyC_772

iTrader: (2)

No, when the car was sold it had a latent defect that meant the engine wasn't going to last. The absence of any symptoms at the time means nothing, nor does the fact that the seller genuinely didn't know about the problem. The buyer is entitled to a reasonable level of service and reliability, given the car's age, mileage and price, and a dead engine in the space of a few weeks is not reasonable unless the car was virtually given away.

Gear Head

iTrader: (2)

Thats the key question. How much was paid for the car??? Alters things quite abit if 3K below value.