The End of Phase 1 ... The beginning of Phase 2
15 October 2006, 02:21 PM
#481
Ecu Specialist
Thread Starter
Not come across that but I don't follow those forums particularly, I always used to use the same weight when I was tweaking it for myself so as to maintain a consistent approach, plus keep the fuel below 1/4. The comparison graph had 1440 in it, I shied away from increasing it as, at that time, it reflected what the car had been dyno'd at.
Just adjusted Andy's graph by 150 down and it still only makes a very small difference though, as mentioned there are more stealthy type things that could be done.
I think the accelleration plots actually refect a more accurate state of condition but, of course, in order to compare you still need the car to be in identical setup for weight etc.
What do you think about the losses, I use 22/23% for these cars to get to flywheel figs from the DD wheel plot, some rollers seem to add more than 30 when measuring coast down.
cheers
Bob
Just adjusted Andy's graph by 150 down and it still only makes a very small difference though, as mentioned there are more stealthy type things that could be done.
I think the accelleration plots actually refect a more accurate state of condition but, of course, in order to compare you still need the car to be in identical setup for weight etc.
What do you think about the losses, I use 22/23% for these cars to get to flywheel figs from the DD wheel plot, some rollers seem to add more than 30 when measuring coast down.
cheers
Bob
15 October 2006, 04:40 PM
#482
Bob,
Based on the comparisons I have made, my DD plots against Powerstation's MAHA show a tranmission loss of approx. 65bhp and 35lbft. Obviously this would change for various RR's which I havent experimented with yet. Based on what flywheel figure (bhp) I get at Powerstation and the ATW figure (bhp) I get in DD, a circa 20% tranny loss for calculation doesnt seem too far from reality.
It's all good stuff and DD is an awesome bit of kit imho. Couple that with a racelogic "Driftbox" (these are so accurate it is unreal - having tested mine against various other performance measuring devices costing £k's), you have the ultimate and affordable set of tools to give you all the information you need.
Regards,
Shaun.
Based on the comparisons I have made, my DD plots against Powerstation's MAHA show a tranmission loss of approx. 65bhp and 35lbft. Obviously this would change for various RR's which I havent experimented with yet. Based on what flywheel figure (bhp) I get at Powerstation and the ATW figure (bhp) I get in DD, a circa 20% tranny loss for calculation doesnt seem too far from reality.
It's all good stuff and DD is an awesome bit of kit imho. Couple that with a racelogic "Driftbox" (these are so accurate it is unreal - having tested mine against various other performance measuring devices costing £k's), you have the ultimate and affordable set of tools to give you all the information you need.
Regards,
Shaun.
15 October 2006, 10:14 PM
#483
Ecu Specialist
Thread Starter
Good to hear that, loss assessment is pretty close, DD gives a consistent mechanism for performance comparison given that similar criteria are apllied to similar models. My only criticism of it is the "abrupt" sampling that takes place, something to talk to SD about I think.
Its extremely difficult to correlate different rolling roads which is why I think best advice is pick one then use to measure differentials at each mod stage rather than absolute figures. I have a Gtec Pro which I haven't really used in anger, it wil be interesting to get some comparisons with DD, I'll do that and post some results up.
cheers
Bob
Its extremely difficult to correlate different rolling roads which is why I think best advice is pick one then use to measure differentials at each mod stage rather than absolute figures. I have a Gtec Pro which I haven't really used in anger, it wil be interesting to get some comparisons with DD, I'll do that and post some results up.
cheers
Bob
15 October 2006, 11:53 PM
#484
Just for information.....
The Driftbox was .01s off the timing gear at Avon Park Drag Strip today
, terminal speed was **** on. Great bits of kit Bob..... would be interested in your Gtec Pro findings.
The Driftbox was .01s off the timing gear at Avon Park Drag Strip today
, terminal speed was **** on. Great bits of kit Bob..... would be interested in your Gtec Pro findings.
17 October 2006, 08:30 AM
#486
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Bob weaved his magic on my twin scroll on Saturday.
IIRC, the DD gave 296bhp and 303ft lbs.
First gear from 3k rpm and putting foot to the floor really throws you back into your seat.
Top job, looks like the 'Mega ROM' is Mega too
IIRC, the DD gave 296bhp and 303ft lbs.
First gear from 3k rpm and putting foot to the floor really throws you back into your seat.
Top job, looks like the 'Mega ROM' is Mega too
25 October 2006, 11:23 AM
#488
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Glad to see this thread has been brought back to life it will be intresting to see what forward developments have been made with the twinscroll on shauns car it will save me a packet on trying different stuff in the future.
02 July 2018, 08:04 PM
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Hopefully this is of interest
Back in August I posted the figures for my STi9 GL "straight out of the box". At that time I said that I would see what could be gained from the car purely from mapping leaving exhaust, induction etc std. I have to admit I made one change which was to fit a three port solenoid as a boost control assist.
Anyway I went to Power Engineering today to get a comparison. Apart from having to buy four new tyres due to getting a big nail right on the shoulder of the nearside rear I was not too unhappy at the figures. Big thanks to the guys for putting up with me ... car on rollers, discover nail, car off rollers, trip to Micheldever Tyres for four replacements, back to PE, car back on rollers straight away ... can't thank them enough and Merv/Steve (of Ecutek) who came down and ran the car.
Before 287 bhp and 276 ft lb torque
After 327 bhp and 323 ft lb torque
edited to add the run was done in 4th gear (of six)
Car is totally std apart from mapping and the three port (oh a set of heat grade 8 plugs installed)
Fuel is my usual Optimax plus a bit of NF.
The top end is totaly restricted by the exhaust and std panel filter now, however much I tried bar wiring it shut the boost would not stay above 1.2 bar and the 327 was made at 1.19 bar boost, peak at 1.5 for max torque.
Have to say the car will run very high ignition timing, well over "normal" at 1.2 bar. Not saying how much though !!
So on to Phase 2, this will be in two stages but both will be with a full stainless 3 inch exhaust from turbo back. That will be in place by end Jan. 2004. Once verified then the system will become available. Phase 2a will be the exhaust plus a "good" panel filter in std air box, Phase 2b will be to use same exhaust but replace the std airbox/panel with an induction kit, this will require maf scaling as it will be a larger bore.
That will then move the restriction to inlet pipe and turbo (I hope).
Target for both these options .. well 350 would be good, I suspect thats the limit of the turbo. Boost will remain 1.5 bar peak ... i plan to hold 1.4 bar to the redline (if possible)although I suspect 1.3 is the reality.
Cuople of general observations, although the curves might look a bit "laggy" in fact, on the road, the car is not at all, the header and turbo combination is a real compliment to the six speed box, car "squirms" on accelleration, especially this weather.
From there Phase 3 will involve turbo/injector/fuel pump/fuel regulator upgrades. I plan to keep the top mount and go for 400-420 bhp on the std internals using the factory ecu remapped. Timescale for that end March 2004.
I won't be going internal on this engine ... 2.5 litre did you say ? (but with a decent redline)
Comment on the tyres, I was not sad to see the RE070's go even though they still had 1/3 of the tread left, replaced with F1's and, at last, I can throw it into a corner in the damp without the tail parting company. Oh and a thanks to Micheldever who, absolutely out of the blue, offered a full 4 wheel alignement to go with the tyres, that NEVER happens, always a 2 month wait so I made the most of it.
Finlly big thanks to Nathan for hosting the graph, hopefully have my own web space soon which I will then proceed to clutter with technical trivia !!
cheers
bob
[Edited by Bob Rawle - 12/19/2003 10:48:02 PM]
Back in August I posted the figures for my STi9 GL "straight out of the box". At that time I said that I would see what could be gained from the car purely from mapping leaving exhaust, induction etc std. I have to admit I made one change which was to fit a three port solenoid as a boost control assist.
Anyway I went to Power Engineering today to get a comparison. Apart from having to buy four new tyres due to getting a big nail right on the shoulder of the nearside rear I was not too unhappy at the figures. Big thanks to the guys for putting up with me ... car on rollers, discover nail, car off rollers, trip to Micheldever Tyres for four replacements, back to PE, car back on rollers straight away ... can't thank them enough and Merv/Steve (of Ecutek) who came down and ran the car.
Before 287 bhp and 276 ft lb torque
After 327 bhp and 323 ft lb torque
edited to add the run was done in 4th gear (of six)
Car is totally std apart from mapping and the three port (oh a set of heat grade 8 plugs installed)
Fuel is my usual Optimax plus a bit of NF.
The top end is totaly restricted by the exhaust and std panel filter now, however much I tried bar wiring it shut the boost would not stay above 1.2 bar and the 327 was made at 1.19 bar boost, peak at 1.5 for max torque.
Have to say the car will run very high ignition timing, well over "normal" at 1.2 bar. Not saying how much though !!
So on to Phase 2, this will be in two stages but both will be with a full stainless 3 inch exhaust from turbo back. That will be in place by end Jan. 2004. Once verified then the system will become available. Phase 2a will be the exhaust plus a "good" panel filter in std air box, Phase 2b will be to use same exhaust but replace the std airbox/panel with an induction kit, this will require maf scaling as it will be a larger bore.
That will then move the restriction to inlet pipe and turbo (I hope).
Target for both these options .. well 350 would be good, I suspect thats the limit of the turbo. Boost will remain 1.5 bar peak ... i plan to hold 1.4 bar to the redline (if possible)although I suspect 1.3 is the reality.
Cuople of general observations, although the curves might look a bit "laggy" in fact, on the road, the car is not at all, the header and turbo combination is a real compliment to the six speed box, car "squirms" on accelleration, especially this weather.
From there Phase 3 will involve turbo/injector/fuel pump/fuel regulator upgrades. I plan to keep the top mount and go for 400-420 bhp on the std internals using the factory ecu remapped. Timescale for that end March 2004.
I won't be going internal on this engine ... 2.5 litre did you say ? (but with a decent redline)
Comment on the tyres, I was not sad to see the RE070's go even though they still had 1/3 of the tread left, replaced with F1's and, at last, I can throw it into a corner in the damp without the tail parting company. Oh and a thanks to Micheldever who, absolutely out of the blue, offered a full 4 wheel alignement to go with the tyres, that NEVER happens, always a 2 month wait so I made the most of it.
Finlly big thanks to Nathan for hosting the graph, hopefully have my own web space soon which I will then proceed to clutter with technical trivia !!
cheers
bob
[Edited by Bob Rawle - 12/19/2003 10:48:02 PM]
Great info in this thread thank you for taking the time to explore everything and in such detail. I'm just curious as to why you went heat range 8 plugs here and 7 in your other thread with the UK spec 2.5 sti " here-we-go-again-open-book-and-spoilt-for-choice" and what sort of octane is Optimax plus a bit of NF?
02 July 2018, 08:17 PM
#492
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Hopefully this is of interest
Back in August I posted the figures for my STi9 GL "straight out of the box". At that time I said that I would see what could be gained from the car purely from mapping leaving exhaust, induction etc std. I have to admit I made one change which was to fit a three port solenoid as a boost control assist.
Anyway I went to Power Engineering today to get a comparison. Apart from having to buy four new tyres due to getting a big nail right on the shoulder of the nearside rear I was not too unhappy at the figures. Big thanks to the guys for putting up with me ... car on rollers, discover nail, car off rollers, trip to Micheldever Tyres for four replacements, back to PE, car back on rollers straight away ... can't thank them enough and Merv/Steve (of Ecutek) who came down and ran the car.
Before 287 bhp and 276 ft lb torque
After 327 bhp and 323 ft lb torque
edited to add the run was done in 4th gear (of six)
Car is totally std apart from mapping and the three port (oh a set of heat grade 8 plugs installed)
Fuel is my usual Optimax plus a bit of NF.
The top end is totaly restricted by the exhaust and std panel filter now, however much I tried bar wiring it shut the boost would not stay above 1.2 bar and the 327 was made at 1.19 bar boost, peak at 1.5 for max torque.
Have to say the car will run very high ignition timing, well over "normal" at 1.2 bar. Not saying how much though !!
So on to Phase 2, this will be in two stages but both will be with a full stainless 3 inch exhaust from turbo back. That will be in place by end Jan. 2004. Once verified then the system will become available. Phase 2a will be the exhaust plus a "good" panel filter in std air box, Phase 2b will be to use same exhaust but replace the std airbox/panel with an induction kit, this will require maf scaling as it will be a larger bore.
That will then move the restriction to inlet pipe and turbo (I hope).
Target for both these options .. well 350 would be good, I suspect thats the limit of the turbo. Boost will remain 1.5 bar peak ... i plan to hold 1.4 bar to the redline (if possible)although I suspect 1.3 is the reality.
Cuople of general observations, although the curves might look a bit "laggy" in fact, on the road, the car is not at all, the header and turbo combination is a real compliment to the six speed box, car "squirms" on accelleration, especially this weather.
From there Phase 3 will involve turbo/injector/fuel pump/fuel regulator upgrades. I plan to keep the top mount and go for 400-420 bhp on the std internals using the factory ecu remapped. Timescale for that end March 2004.
I won't be going internal on this engine ... 2.5 litre did you say ? (but with a decent redline)
Comment on the tyres, I was not sad to see the RE070's go even though they still had 1/3 of the tread left, replaced with F1's and, at last, I can throw it into a corner in the damp without the tail parting company. Oh and a thanks to Micheldever who, absolutely out of the blue, offered a full 4 wheel alignement to go with the tyres, that NEVER happens, always a 2 month wait so I made the most of it.
Finlly big thanks to Nathan for hosting the graph, hopefully have my own web space soon which I will then proceed to clutter with technical trivia !!
cheers
bob
[Edited by Bob Rawle - 12/19/2003 10:48:02 PM]
Back in August I posted the figures for my STi9 GL "straight out of the box". At that time I said that I would see what could be gained from the car purely from mapping leaving exhaust, induction etc std. I have to admit I made one change which was to fit a three port solenoid as a boost control assist.
Anyway I went to Power Engineering today to get a comparison. Apart from having to buy four new tyres due to getting a big nail right on the shoulder of the nearside rear I was not too unhappy at the figures. Big thanks to the guys for putting up with me ... car on rollers, discover nail, car off rollers, trip to Micheldever Tyres for four replacements, back to PE, car back on rollers straight away ... can't thank them enough and Merv/Steve (of Ecutek) who came down and ran the car.
Before 287 bhp and 276 ft lb torque
After 327 bhp and 323 ft lb torque
edited to add the run was done in 4th gear (of six)
Car is totally std apart from mapping and the three port (oh a set of heat grade 8 plugs installed)
Fuel is my usual Optimax plus a bit of NF.
The top end is totaly restricted by the exhaust and std panel filter now, however much I tried bar wiring it shut the boost would not stay above 1.2 bar and the 327 was made at 1.19 bar boost, peak at 1.5 for max torque.
Have to say the car will run very high ignition timing, well over "normal" at 1.2 bar. Not saying how much though !!
So on to Phase 2, this will be in two stages but both will be with a full stainless 3 inch exhaust from turbo back. That will be in place by end Jan. 2004. Once verified then the system will become available. Phase 2a will be the exhaust plus a "good" panel filter in std air box, Phase 2b will be to use same exhaust but replace the std airbox/panel with an induction kit, this will require maf scaling as it will be a larger bore.
That will then move the restriction to inlet pipe and turbo (I hope).
Target for both these options .. well 350 would be good, I suspect thats the limit of the turbo. Boost will remain 1.5 bar peak ... i plan to hold 1.4 bar to the redline (if possible)although I suspect 1.3 is the reality.
Cuople of general observations, although the curves might look a bit "laggy" in fact, on the road, the car is not at all, the header and turbo combination is a real compliment to the six speed box, car "squirms" on accelleration, especially this weather.
From there Phase 3 will involve turbo/injector/fuel pump/fuel regulator upgrades. I plan to keep the top mount and go for 400-420 bhp on the std internals using the factory ecu remapped. Timescale for that end March 2004.
I won't be going internal on this engine ... 2.5 litre did you say ? (but with a decent redline)
Comment on the tyres, I was not sad to see the RE070's go even though they still had 1/3 of the tread left, replaced with F1's and, at last, I can throw it into a corner in the damp without the tail parting company. Oh and a thanks to Micheldever who, absolutely out of the blue, offered a full 4 wheel alignement to go with the tyres, that NEVER happens, always a 2 month wait so I made the most of it.
Finlly big thanks to Nathan for hosting the graph, hopefully have my own web space soon which I will then proceed to clutter with technical trivia !!
cheers
bob
[Edited by Bob Rawle - 12/19/2003 10:48:02 PM]
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