Andy.F

Yes, John Banks ran 406 bhp on a MY00 UK with a similar set up and ECUTEK mapping. The major difference was John was still on std headers. At this level the headers make a massive difference to the amount of boost you need to use to get the bhp.

Tweenyrob also made 419bhp at Power Engineering IIRC on a std internals WRX running a Pavlo remapped OE ECU.

Steve sg72 recently made 406bhp at Star on a std internals sti5 running a very safe RC Developments Optimax map, this will soon be in for an OB remap

Frank (Money)I predict will be the next on the list of faces

There is now a clear path to this sort of safe power, on a std internals UK/WRX/Sti and last but not least the Ra

Andy

john banks

What was sketchy in my thread?

I had to run shed loads of boost (1.7 bar mid, 1.55 bar at peak power) and octane booster (whole bottle of NF per tank) to get these sorts of results, and Alan has moved the game on by 9 BHP without these vices, I presume some of this nice trade off is due to his use of an aftermarket exhaust manifold, which can have the nice effect of similar power at lower boost.

What Alan has achieved that I did not is that he has the turbo working efficiently and making a lot of airflow instead of boost.

I don't think mine would have held together as it was which is why I worked on upgrading the engine. I suspect Alan's may well hold together since his thermal management is like to be better given his results and boost levels.

That is what we all aim for, and it needs the setup spot on to do it.

chrome

Alan: Top stuff mate.
paves the way for the 2.0L lads

Glad the gruppeS headers from the group buy did the trick for you!

Brad.


[Edited by chrome - 12/14/2003 9:44:36 PM]

Maddog

Touchy touchy!!
You seem to have missed the IMO bit! of my post.

Thank you for clarifying that the difference would appear to be 0.3 bar mid range difference in pressure and .15bar at the top end, though IMO since you are quite clear on the boost levels when you ran your car, why are you vague in your post and tell people you weren't sure but could be around 1.6-1.8 bar but your map sensor tops out at 1.72 bar and you had a map leak!

It's good that headers are a beneficial part of the tuning process on the Impreza and from what i read here, it would be beneficial to safeguard the lifespan of the engine by running less boost to achieve similar power levels.

Thank you Andy and John for clarifying that the headers is the improvement here. I put my hands up to my overlooking of that detail. Learn something every day....

AlanG

P20SPD
Thanks Steven. Will mail you tomorrow.

Maddog
How long is a piece of string? I can't answer that question, but from the drivers seat the way it feels, it appears to be very happy at this level. Certainly, when i put my foot down, I don't think it's going to blow up. I've ran the car at higher boost levels on other turbos before the headers went on and felt as if i was *pushing it* a bit.
If it blows, i'll let everyone know. I don't have a problem sharing my experiences. AT the moment, it's good and if someone wants to achieve the same, then they can do so knowing what works and also save a bit of dosh cause they don't need to try things out and see if they work.
All my previous bits on the car, be it headers, turbo's, filters or whatever are all suitable for the Impreza in the right situation. It's when you move on and try to up the game, products become inferior for that application. It's unfortunate that some people think product x isn't as good as product y because somebody else says so. All depends on the whole package as far as i'm concerned.

Pete Doug produced bog standard figures for his car. Well..it is standard after all!!

chrome

Cheers mate
The Gruppe-S headers are working well on the car.
The group buy was on OBX though!!!

john banks

Maddog, not touchy just clarifying for you If you met me you would realise I don't get touchy very easily so don't worry

ISWYM about the boost levels, there was a problem on the rollers on the first few runs where the hose feeding the MAP sensor had come off so there was a leak in the feed to the boost gauge which made it under-read. This was tracked down when the rolling road showed different (higher) boost figures compared to the boost gauge. It made its best not at the dizzy and dangerous heights of 1.8 bar but at 1.7 dropping to 1.55 approx.

Alan, was this using APS induction kit?


[Edited by john banks - 12/14/2003 10:28:37 PM]

AlanG

Yes John. The APS cold air kit.

Alan

dougies549

Hi john

What figures have you had on the roller's with the Gruppe S header's fitted on the 2.0 litre?

Is it the big bore or the small bore ones that you have ?

Thought i heard on the day you were running 2.0 bar of boost, would your graph not show us this?

Dougie

chrome

alan:
"chrome
Cheers mate
The Gruppe-S headers are working well on the car.
The group buy was on OBX though!!!"

I was originally part of the GruppeS group buy, but spoke to you at the time after you aksed me about purchasing some remember?
I sold mine to Scoty, and bought OBX instead.

anyway: gr8 result for you!!

AlanG

Cheers chrome.
What do you think of the OBX? Could be tempted to try them out if i get bored driving the car and want to get my hands dirty again!!

Alan

john banks

Dougie, never had headers on my 2.0 (well not since the Scoobysport ones over a year ago with TMIC and MD304). The headers went on with the 2.3 engines, and now the 2.5. I hope it wasn't quite 2.0 bar, but it did hit 1.8 bar now and again, but there is nothing big about that if it is all just hot air and restriction.

There is more to Alan's results than just headers though, he has obviously got the setup really good overall with all the details spot on to do so well on such a conservative rolling road, without it you just don't pull the numbers.

[Edited by john banks - 12/14/2003 10:39:06 PM]

Maddog

I believe you are very nice person John as many testify on many of these threads. Maybe one day.

My reason for questioning was that you are so specific with technical details, all the minutest of snippets of information, then i see your thread claiming the *pub* 400 then became a bit odd with comments on the results as "I take it with a pinch of salt" and "secondary gain was to get a figure for the pub".

This to someone who only reads about your Impreza exploits on a bulletin board, finds it at odds to your replies on other posts.
You, to me is someone who crosses the "T"'s and dots the "i's".

It came across to me as saying "my figures are bit of a nonsense, but if it impresses somebody and i get a few sales out of it, where's the harm".

But after that, you gave up the Ecutek agency...

This isn't a go at you John, don't take it that way, it's just one small pawn in the game of chess having an opinion.

dougies549

Hi John

Yeah i know it's not just about his header's alone there is also alot to be said for the mapping that was done on the car.As well as the hard work and determination that Alan has put in to get it where it is today.

I think that at 1.4 bar to get these figure's is brilliant without the use of additive's.

Dougie

Maddog

[Edited by Maddog - 12/14/2003 10:56:00 PM]

nom

Alan - great result on the dyno!
I'm wondering about the drivetrain - clutch, gearbox, etc... is this all standard? I wonder 'cos I'm running a very similar setup (main difference being the compressor wheel!) and so far have had no 'complaints' from the clutch or gearbox, despite these being the original ones in both cases. Others seem to burn through the standard clutch (& 3rd gear) without trying. Is this is a worry/something you are pondering; does it all seem to be hanging together? I worry 'cos the gearbox in particular is a whopper of an expense

john banks

Maddog, I try to be honest, so if I think my results are dodgy, that there had to be loads of octane booster, a "Q" in the month and a tail wind, and they will never be repeated I will say so rather than cover it up to let someone else be disappointed when they try to replicate it.

I'm still posting results now, with no secondary gain apart from interest and enthusiasm (I prefer it this way).

Trouble is when doing these things as anyone will testify who has been involved in a high powered engine project is that you can't get good quality data to present often, you can't control all the variables, and you have to change several things at once to get the job done.

Thankfully when results are posted on Scoobynet no one is paying you for a technical report

For example, I've posted tonight that I think I got a 23 WHP gain from a J&S Safeguard, but at the same time there were some spikes on the graph that make it difficult to read, the tests were done on different days, with different tanks of fuel, different car weights, different air fuel mixture etc. Trying to collect these results whilst my brave passenger was wrestling simultaneously with det cans, laptop, EGT gauge, knock retard gauge, knocklink, wideband AFR meter, boost gauge and staying in his seat whilst trying to avoid the plethora of wiring in his footwell and around him was frankly frought with difficulties. It took him a few minutes to extricate himself from his seat around all this mess when he got out at the other end

Alan, somehow always manages to keep his car clean, tidy AND quick

AlanG

nom
I've been running an AP organic clutch for quite some time now with no problems so far.

Over the last year i've ran a version V Sti box and diff and touch wood it sounds and feels fine.

I broke two UK boxes before though, unfortunately both didn't give any indication they were going. Just kinda happened.

Alan

nom

Oh, terrific Alan - just what I wanted to hear!
So my clutch is probably knackered - I'm just so used to it I haven't noticed - and the gearbox will shortly explode without warning.
Excellent

Maddog

John

I do honestly think you are very knowledgable and I enjoy reading about your progress and will continue to do so.
This only came about because it triggered my memory when i first read the posters thread.
I'll buy you a pint of typically strong German brew if you ever come over here.

AlanG

nom

Lol

What you want to do then is sell your box while the goings good and buy the STi box and diff. Cost to change will be minimal.

Or you could always buy the gearbox from a certain doctor

Alan

nom

I saw the Doctors box...
(stifled giggle)
...think I'll stop there, for now

AlanG

nom
If it's the turbo I think you have, then you would soon know if your clutch was slipping!!

I achieved just under 390BHP on same turbo back in the summer but can't compare results because it was A: a different rolling road day and B: it was hotter then.

What's the spec of your car? and what have you achieved to date? Must feel good on the road.

Alan

P.S. Offline if you don't want to publicise.

Andy.F

Dougie, no disrespect to the mappers out there (i'm one of em) but it's really not difficult to get it right. Fuel it to chosen AFR (scoobs like 11-11.5) and time it to a few degrees from det - job done. You could train a monkey to do it, or a Doctor, or a Dentist It used to be much more involved when we had carbs and distributors !
Heat management, correct matching of parts and detailed attention to airflow (in and out) make the biggest differences to power potential.

Andy

[Edited by Andy.F - 12/14/2003 11:24:58 PM]

AlanG

Is there a difference?

Alan

dougies549

Hi Andy

I would probably agree that now a day's it's a lot simpler to map car's due to Lap tops etc.

But maybe not so much train a monkey to map car's there is more to it than that and diffrent mappers seem to get diffrent power figures and result's to other's. It all depend's on how they apply there technicks.

Pavlo

Andy,

Mapping is not tremendously difficult if you are in tune with what's going on, but not everyone is.

Paul

Andy.F

I'd agree with that Paul
What I mean is there are those who know what they are doing and those who don't !! There is no mystical 3rd level of mapper who has a secret AFR or demon timing figure to dial in

Take any one of a dozen or so experienced scooby mappers, give them the same car, same fuel and boost target and I'd be most surprised if there was more than 5bhp difference in the peak power result.

The main mapping skills are with the transients and this can't be quantified on a rolling road.

Andy

[Edited by Andy.F - 12/15/2003 12:23:41 AM]

AlanG

Very true. And it's in these areas that take the most time to sort out. Getting the finer points of the map right determines whether it's a good car to drive or a great car to drive. Lots of power in a car is nothing if it's horrible to drive on an everyday basis.

Alan

chrome

Alan: Re; OBX- they arent fitted yet!!

come new year I will be able to answer you

[Edited by chrome - 12/15/2003 8:27:36 AM]

nom

Alan
The mods go...

APS front mount intercooler
550 injectors @ 4 bar
TMI 141 turbo (I think that's the name - the one you thought it was, anyway ) @ 1.4 bar
APS cold air kit
MRT inlet pipe
BPM DP, one-off 'extra silenced' 3" H&S rest of system
HKS headers

Basically, take your list & change the brand name! A Link's doing the ECU stuff too...
Very nice to drive, yes, but I have no figures that are up-to-date anyway (and put very little on RR figures). The 'DeltaDyno' type figures - although obviously not from DeltaDyno - gave me approximately 385 when the boost control was iffy (cycled from 1.2-1.45 bar) so I recon it's pretty much in the same plae as yours - 'Star performance' is a pretty realistic RR, isn't it? I have the 'amusing' PE rollers down here - would give me an additional 30bhp without trying .
So far, standard everything major (internals & drivetrain) , also Optimax with no additives. However, I am about to cheat & install an Aquamist system...