Making ice with warm / hot water
21 May 2003, 06:24 PM
#32
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: The poliotical wing of Chip Sengravy.
Posts: 6,129
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Its a known FACT, that to freeze any kind of booze, the freezer in question must be colder than the country in originated from - otherwise the population of the country from where the booze originated would have to microwave their grog in order to get p1ssed - unless they prefer lollies.
Hence you cannot freeze Vodka in british freezers.
Hence you cannot freeze Vodka in british freezers.
21 May 2003, 08:08 PM
#36
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 1,475
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
if you could use liquid nitrogen as your refrigerant instead of the poxy stuff we get, you could freeze steel 
Mind you, I dont know what you'd make the freezer coils from....
Nonfreezeinium I reckon
Water expands when it forms ice because when water is a liquid, the molecules mix around very closely to one another. Each molecule is attracted to other by forces called hydrogen bonds. These bonds keep the molecules close together but not permanently fixed in one place. As one molecule moves past another it will break old hydrogen bonds and form new ones, with different water molecules.
As water cools, the molecules slow down, and can get closer together. At 4 degrees Celsius (about 39 degrees Fahrenheit), water molecules are as closely packed as they can get. When water is cooled below 4 degrees Celsius, the individual molecules start to arrange themselves into a more stable form. At 0 degrees Celsius (32 degrees Fahrenheit) and normal atmospheric pressure, water will form the stable solid we call ice.
Ice, like most other pure solids, has a crystalline structure. This means that the atoms are organized in a simple repeating structure, such as a cube or a tetrahedron. The crystalline structure of ice is a repeating arrangement of eight molecules of water. This arrangement is actually less dense than liquid water at 4 degrees Celsius! There are more molecules in the same amount of space in the cold liquid than there is in the solid form.
This is a very unique property of water, as most chemicals have solid forms that are denser than their liquid forms. The arrangement of hydrogen and oxygen atoms in water results in this and other special chemical properties.
Tada!
NB - I robbed that, cos it was easier than typing it myself (I've got a Chemical Engineering degree so know a little bit about thermodynamics )
Mind you, I dont know what you'd make the freezer coils from....
Nonfreezeinium I reckon
Water expands when it forms ice because when water is a liquid, the molecules mix around very closely to one another. Each molecule is attracted to other by forces called hydrogen bonds. These bonds keep the molecules close together but not permanently fixed in one place. As one molecule moves past another it will break old hydrogen bonds and form new ones, with different water molecules.
As water cools, the molecules slow down, and can get closer together. At 4 degrees Celsius (about 39 degrees Fahrenheit), water molecules are as closely packed as they can get. When water is cooled below 4 degrees Celsius, the individual molecules start to arrange themselves into a more stable form. At 0 degrees Celsius (32 degrees Fahrenheit) and normal atmospheric pressure, water will form the stable solid we call ice.
Ice, like most other pure solids, has a crystalline structure. This means that the atoms are organized in a simple repeating structure, such as a cube or a tetrahedron. The crystalline structure of ice is a repeating arrangement of eight molecules of water. This arrangement is actually less dense than liquid water at 4 degrees Celsius! There are more molecules in the same amount of space in the cold liquid than there is in the solid form.
This is a very unique property of water, as most chemicals have solid forms that are denser than their liquid forms. The arrangement of hydrogen and oxygen atoms in water results in this and other special chemical properties.
Tada!
NB - I robbed that, cos it was easier than typing it myself (I've got a Chemical Engineering degree so know a little bit about thermodynamics )
21 May 2003, 09:03 PM
#39
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 2,261
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
[smashie&nicie]
literally amazing there nicie... his mind was working in 'OVERDRIVE' Bachman Turner Overdrive... and you know mate?... you ain't seen nothing yet... lets' rock...
[smashie&nicie]
[Edited by Mycroft - 5/21/2003 9:04:31 PM]
literally amazing there nicie... his mind was working in 'OVERDRIVE' Bachman Turner Overdrive... and you know mate?... you ain't seen nothing yet... lets' rock...
[smashie&nicie]
[Edited by Mycroft - 5/21/2003 9:04:31 PM]
Aye
22 May 2003, 12:17 PM
#43
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: nr Wrexham
Posts: 943
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hey that still doesn't explain why warm water freezes quicker (if it does), you are just telling us about the unique properties of water.
If I'm mistaken please correct me
(I did chem a level so i know a little about valency and bonding)
[Edited by mel - 5/22/2003 1:27:49 PM]
If I'm mistaken please correct me
(I did chem a level so i know a little about valency and bonding)
[Edited by mel - 5/22/2003 1:27:49 PM]
22 May 2003, 12:22 PM
#44
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: God's promised land
Posts: 80,907
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Mel, the latent energy laws apply to all materials, NASA developed "super-materials" excepted. Water is unique in that it expands and becomes less dense when it freezes. If ya did A level Chem, i assume ya did A levl Fizz too? Were you off that day?!! 
22 May 2003, 12:41 PM
#46
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: nr Wrexham
Posts: 943
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I did Physics too and Biology <i was a glutton for punishment>
but it was almost 10 years ago now and I've only followed up the Biology bit <see profile> I was never that good anyway especially at physics! and i can't remember much of it now
but it was almost 10 years ago now and I've only followed up the Biology bit
<see profile> I was never that good anyway especially at physics! and i can't remember much of it now
22 May 2003, 01:21 PM
#47
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 1,475
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Mycroft, I can see why nobody likes you...
I answered MJ's question about why it expands when it freezes. I didnt give a thought to the original question, cos I dont care, and latency has **** all to do with the question I answered.
Buzz... thanks for that... told us nothing about LATENCY, but who cares... ... the 'variables' are the variables in the latency of the water...
22 May 2003, 02:29 PM
#49
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: The poliotical wing of Chip Sengravy.
Posts: 6,129
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
this explains it then......
The questioner is correct--it is possible to produce ice cubes more quickly by using initially hot water instead of cold. The effect can be achieved when the container holding the water is placed on a surface of frost or ice. The higher temperature slightly melts the icy surface on which the container rests, greatly improving the thermal contact between the container and the cold surface. The increased rate of heat transfer from the container and contents more than offsets the greater amount of heat that has to be removed. The effect cannot be obtained if the container is suspended or rests on a dry surface.
This effect was first noted by Sir Francis Bacon using wooden pails on ice. My own investigation showed ice cubes could be obtained within 15 minutes rather than 20 minutes if the frost in the refrigerator was deep enough. The incentive to get your ice a little quicker is obviously greater in Australia than in cooler countries.
makes sense if you think about it.
The questioner is correct--it is possible to produce ice cubes more quickly by using initially hot water instead of cold. The effect can be achieved when the container holding the water is placed on a surface of frost or ice. The higher temperature slightly melts the icy surface on which the container rests, greatly improving the thermal contact between the container and the cold surface. The increased rate of heat transfer from the container and contents more than offsets the greater amount of heat that has to be removed. The effect cannot be obtained if the container is suspended or rests on a dry surface.
This effect was first noted by Sir Francis Bacon using wooden pails on ice. My own investigation showed ice cubes could be obtained within 15 minutes rather than 20 minutes if the frost in the refrigerator was deep enough. The incentive to get your ice a little quicker is obviously greater in Australia than in cooler countries.
makes sense if you think about it.
22 May 2003, 04:11 PM
#53
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 1,475
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
LOL - thanks Telboy
Mycroft I can only go on what I've read about you and the way I perceived your reply - the only other person I can remember generating so much negative feedback from so many scoobynetters was MarkO when he was on top form
And as a genius can't you use quote tags?
Mycroft I can only go on what I've read about you and the way I perceived your reply - the only other person I can remember generating so much negative feedback from so many scoobynetters was MarkO when he was on top form
And as a genius can't you use quote tags?
22 May 2003, 04:25 PM
#55
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: In the naughty corner
Posts: 10,869
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Although this is undoubtedly a sign of my increasing insanity, I am starting to think that a lot of what Mycroft says makes sense.
He can be an irritating ****, I'll grant you, but I wouldn't say I dislike him. Well, not today at least.
He can be an irritating ****, I'll grant you, but I wouldn't say I dislike him. Well, not today at least.
22 May 2003, 04:26 PM
#56
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: In the naughty corner
Posts: 10,869
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
the only other person I can remember generating so much negative feedback from so many scoobynetters was MarkO when he was on top form
I feel quite left out.
22 May 2003, 04:40 PM
#58
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: In the naughty corner
Posts: 10,869
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
No, you won't. You can certainly annoy, bore or exasperate me, but you won't make me hate you.
I can't think of anyone I can honestly say I hate at the moment, and there are many, many people who've done much worse things to me than you could.
You're free to take that as a challenge btw.
edited for errant 'm'
[Edited by TurboKitty - 5/22/2003 4:41:50 PM]
I can't think of anyone I can honestly say I hate at the moment, and there are many, many people who've done much worse things to me than you could.
You're free to take that as a challenge btw.
edited for errant 'm'
[Edited by TurboKitty - 5/22/2003 4:41:50 PM]
22 May 2003, 05:45 PM
#60
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: In the naughty corner
Posts: 10,869
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I can think of 3 people I have hated, (with a passion), at some point. I knew them personally though. I don't think I could hate anyone I only 'knew' from an internet site.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
Mattybr5@MB Developments
Full Cars Breaking For Spares
12
18 November 2015 07:03 AM
Sam Witwicky
Engine Management and ECU Remapping
17
13 November 2015 10:49 AM