Here goes .............. ALL my money ;o)
Thread Starter
Scooby Regular
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 9,173
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From: Under your bonnet
Steven ???
why do I need to send pics to David, I uploaded them to my own site, not turbosport.
Sorry for the confusion Guys :
Down pipe = £ 200
Headers = £700
System = £400
**** me, I can't add up either..
It was £1300
Nezz,
Yes. as I said, Hayward and Scott (aka H&S) made them.
Andy.
why do I need to send pics to David, I uploaded them to my own site, not turbosport.
Sorry for the confusion Guys :
Down pipe = £ 200
Headers = £700
System = £400
**** me, I can't add up either..
It was £1300
Nezz,
Yes. as I said, Hayward and Scott (aka H&S) made them.
Andy.
Andy F, can you give me details of where i can get those headers from and how much, do i get scoobynet discount?
Convinced i should have a set of headers now
Can you give me info.
Steven
Convinced i should have a set of headers now
Can you give me info.
Steven
Only had 2, and just been told had too many, says her who works in 3/4 drunk. Yes dear, i will get drunk whilst looking after our 2 sons
Sorry Andy, hows the project going??
Steven
. Yes dear, i will get drunk whilst looking after our 2 sonsSorry Andy, hows the project going??
Steven
Thread Starter
Scooby Regular
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 9,173
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From: Under your bonnet
Abusing my thread now 
As for Project wallet fleece.
It's done just that
Have not enough money to buy BRD's 740cc injectors
Having to wait til Pat can get some at a better price!
Oh and I've come to hate the exhaust already
Looks like a ******* boyracer mobile now, with that 4" tin can sticking out the back
Things will Change when I hear it I hope.
need plug to fit ribbon cable from ECU to Laptop, any Idea'a on what is needed ??
Andy
As for Project wallet fleece.
It's done just that
Have not enough money to buy BRD's 740cc injectors
Having to wait til Pat can get some at a better price!
Oh and I've come to hate the exhaust already
Looks like a ******* boyracer mobile now, with that 4" tin can sticking out the back
Things will Change when I hear it I hope.
need plug to fit ribbon cable from ECU to Laptop, any Idea'a on what is needed ??
Andy
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Joined: Aug 1999
Posts: 679
Likes: 0
Andy,
glad the stuff arrived OK, dunno what happened with the swarf, I shall be kicking proverbial butt...
All,
few points to note about the headers when comparing them to the Gruppe-S units... firstly, the H&S headers feature *three* times as many slip joints, so where the Gruppe S ones will stress the up pipe (which I see also does not feature a slip joint) the H&S ones will quite happily cope with any expansion. It should come as no surprise that there are a number of gasket failures on solid up pipes... that's why I get mine slip jointed
But back to the point at hand...
The headers don't quite match the gasket. Someone please offer one up to a Gruppe-S, Ion or even HKS, but please be sat on the floor already so you don't hurt yourself when you start laughing The entry to the H&S headers are larger and they taper down to the primary size. If you want even more giggles, try offering a gasket up to the head, you'll soon see that the ports are significantly smaller than the gasket. The point here is simple... there should be a step between the header and the head in the reverse flow direction, this is achieved by making the entry to the headers larger than the exit from the head. The size is chosen slightly smaller than the gasket because the holes in the gasket and the headers are slightly larger than the stud diameter to allow for thermal expansion, but it could also result in a misalignment where the fire ring sits inside the bore, not on its periphery as intented. Lining up heads with gaskets and headers where the sizes are identical is a laborious process!
With regard to the weld quality, well, it isn't the most beutiful weld ever constructed... but pray tell me which other manufacturer goes to the trouble of welding the inside of the flange (I know HKS do not, suspect Gruppe-S and Ion don't either) so you get a horrible discontinuity there where the pipe enters at a slight angle.... this is (theoretically) blended in on the H&S ones, seems that there may be some residual swarf from that.
As for the exhaust, it's functional rather than beautiful. Sorry if you think it looks like a boy racer tin can... it's damn difficult trying to balance flow with noise reduction! On my car (4-2-1 equal length headers) it was pretty quiet. On Moray's car (4-2-1 unequal length headers) it was pretty quiet... he now has my headers and it's still quiet. On standard headers it does start off loud, but seems to get quieter, though never to the level of cars with headers. On Tim W's it was so loud that he booked it in for a second silencer.... then I went out in the car and figured it didn't sound or feel right, so after finding that an injector wasn't working and fixing that, it miraculously became quieter, much more like what I would have expected for a car with 4-1 headers
I guess I'de best stop explaining why things are done the way they are, I'de far sooner people just thought it was a naff design and didn't copy it I'll wait until Andy has finished and see whether it works or not. If previous incarnations are anything to go by then he can expect around 400 BHP at 1.5 bar on a 2 litre engine, but this does depend somewhat on the heads and mapping
Cheers,
Pat.
glad the stuff arrived OK, dunno what happened with the swarf, I shall be kicking proverbial butt...
All,
few points to note about the headers when comparing them to the Gruppe-S units... firstly, the H&S headers feature *three* times as many slip joints, so where the Gruppe S ones will stress the up pipe (which I see also does not feature a slip joint) the H&S ones will quite happily cope with any expansion. It should come as no surprise that there are a number of gasket failures on solid up pipes... that's why I get mine slip jointed
But back to the point at hand... The headers don't quite match the gasket. Someone please offer one up to a Gruppe-S, Ion or even HKS, but please be sat on the floor already so you don't hurt yourself when you start laughing
The entry to the H&S headers are larger and they taper down to the primary size. If you want even more giggles, try offering a gasket up to the head, you'll soon see that the ports are significantly smaller than the gasket. The point here is simple... there should be a step between the header and the head in the reverse flow direction, this is achieved by making the entry to the headers larger than the exit from the head. The size is chosen slightly smaller than the gasket because the holes in the gasket and the headers are slightly larger than the stud diameter to allow for thermal expansion, but it could also result in a misalignment where the fire ring sits inside the bore, not on its periphery as intented. Lining up heads with gaskets and headers where the sizes are identical is a laborious process! With regard to the weld quality, well, it isn't the most beutiful weld ever constructed... but pray tell me which other manufacturer goes to the trouble of welding the inside of the flange (I know HKS do not, suspect Gruppe-S and Ion don't either) so you get a horrible discontinuity there where the pipe enters at a slight angle.... this is (theoretically) blended in on the H&S ones, seems that there may be some residual swarf from that.
As for the exhaust, it's functional rather than beautiful. Sorry if you think it looks like a boy racer tin can... it's damn difficult trying to balance flow with noise reduction! On my car (4-2-1 equal length headers) it was pretty quiet. On Moray's car (4-2-1 unequal length headers) it was pretty quiet... he now has my headers and it's still quiet. On standard headers it does start off loud, but seems to get quieter, though never to the level of cars with headers. On Tim W's it was so loud that he booked it in for a second silencer.... then I went out in the car and figured it didn't sound or feel right, so after finding that an injector wasn't working and fixing that, it miraculously became quieter, much more like what I would have expected for a car with 4-1 headers
I guess I'de best stop explaining why things are done the way they are, I'de far sooner people just thought it was a naff design and didn't copy it
I'll wait until Andy has finished and see whether it works or not. If previous incarnations are anything to go by then he can expect around 400 BHP at 1.5 bar on a 2 litre engine, but this does depend somewhat on the heads and mapping Cheers,
Pat.