What diameter is the turbo inlet John?

You want to try my inlet pipe for fitment?

 

76mm. Just heard they have now got the turbo seated though, raising the top of the uppipe would be troublesome to get the inlet pipe in.

They have 76mm hose to sleeve over my old MRT inlet hose, will see how it goes.

I think if I knew what I knew now I would have tried to shoehorn bigger wheels into the 05/06 hybrid, but the iON should be good once running I think on this engine at "sensible" boost - ie 1.2 to 1.3 bar.

 

1.5 bar

 

Then 2.0 bar

 

John:
If it helps you I will send further photos tonight. This time the adaptor I made for the P450 to inlet tract.
Also you can get a blank flange from Ian @ H+S to sit on top of existing up-pipe flange with blank holes and then use longer new studs to get a little more height.
I suspect your up-pipe is in a slightly different position as I had no fitting problems other than cutting out most of one lug as you have seen.
Obviously I felt the results more than compensated for the little extra effort.

 

Thanks Harvey, further photos would be interesting, hopefully (again) it may be done by tonight though.

I think 1.2 or 1.3 bar at 6-7000 RPM should be quite good fun, after all this is comparable in airflow to 1.8 bar on 2.0!

 

Hmmm...

P450...1.8bar...2.0....who does that remind me of?

Has the potential to go well above your target of 450BHP then John?

 

I'll have to turn the boost down in that case, can't really sensibly be going over 450 BHP with these pistons

Wife will kill me if I break anything, and that prospect is even scarier than T-uk giving me a hard time for running everything on the "bawsacking edge"

 

So you will be try ing a little bit more boost soon then John......... LMFAO.
P.S. The turbo has the ability to run a 2.5 at 1.8 bar plus very easily so it could be spectacular in performance terms, even just to try short term.

 

"even just to try short term" - that's a slippery slope

Richard

 

Seems to be running nicely. I've not mapped it yet, just running it off the MAF sensor on the old map and all is behaving nicely, it will probably take a bit more timing from the looks of things, or rather ahem, less octane

Very smooth, runs 1.4 bar off the actuator alone and holds flat. Quite nice driving it off acutator only boost control as the spool up is very smooth and doesn't upset traction as much as the kidney punch method. Also helps keeping it pointing the right way.

It does spool up later than the 20G so that 1 bar is reached at about 2900 RPM in 6th gear, 3000 RPM in 5th. There is no surge or creep, I was a little surprised that with the actuator on its loosest setting it was running 1.4 bar, I had ahem planned to run a little less. Never mind, it doesn't seem to mind running that

I estimate about 460 BHP and 430 lbft in present trim from the butt dyno. We'll have to see.

 

its looking good then john

when mapped how much more torque do you think you will get??

 

Not a lot, the only thing that needs altering is the ignition, fuelling is fine off the MAF sensor - just holds flat at about lambda 0.8 with the methanol as it did on the 20G with no daft lean spots or significant funny business. You would normally need to take 5 degrees off to lose the methanol which I intend to do with the new turbo, a small drop in fuel pressure of about 0.5 bar should see about 0.78 lambda when I lose the methanol. Because the new turbo isn't stressed to bawsack, I won't need to take the whole 5 degrees out to lose the methanol. I will probably get back anything I lose when I sort the induction kit out.

I will sort it roughly first off the MAF sensor, then steal the values and finally map the conversion box, remove the MAF sensor and restrictive APS induction and fit and box off the big K&N cone.

 

have you got any pics?

 

No sorry no pics, will try to sort at some point.

Filled a virtually empty tank (56 litres in) with plain Optimax this morning and found that apart from a sparkle at 6000 RPM it will actually take the same timing it did on the 10% methanol mixture. At 6000 it will need 2-3 degrees less, it just ramps a little too early, perhaps also the EGBP is going up here as well, plus the intake gets real restrictive here too. Timing is 18 midrange, 25 at the top. Boost is 1.4 mid, 1.27 at the top. Losing the methanol hasn't spoilt the car's performance anything like it did before, probably because the turbo is having an easier time.

This was running a rich 0.74 lambda so that can be leaned out a bit when I check the EGTs.

 

what revs are you making 1.4bar ?

Do you use the ecu's boost control?

David

 

Good work John. Glad it's finally sorted. The ignition timing sounds close to my car 19/20 mid and 25 up top.

So the 06 should be coming my way soon a gather then?

 

Pleased to hear the performance of the Ion Turbo is in line with your expectations although I would never have recommended it if I had not been 100% confident.

 

David, 3200 RPM in top. I was using no boost control - just a straight pipe from the compressor outlet to the actuator.

George - yes indeed, I am getting everything together. Drop me an email and we'll sort out the arrangements.

Harvey, yes it is good.

T-uk and I were playing a bit with it today. On Optimax with no additives I can now get the same power as I was running before with methanol With 1 or 2 PSI extra it runs 356 WHP and 364 WTq on Delta Dash.

For comparision, previous 434 BHP at Star compared with 340 WHP, so I should be about on the money for 450 BHP now, at which it all feels comfortable.

Tried using a Dawes and the torque comes in about 100 RPM earlier than with just the actuator and is more aggressive.

Overall it lags the 20G's torque by 400 RPM.

I have not remeasured, but I think there will be a hell of a depression in that inlet now with the APS still on it.

With all the other issues apparently sorted, I now need to ditch it and finish my conversion which may allow me to drop the boost slightly I hope to reach my targets at 1.4 bar mid dropping to 1.25 bar at the top rather than 1.4 bar at the top to presently get about 450 BHP.

 

Email on the way.

 

JECS now running properly without MAF sensor and mostly mapped now - I didn't reflash the ECU at all, I just programmed the conversion box with VE. Working on the transients from 2000-3000 RPM, otherwise it is sorted.

Big filter will probably go on tomorrow and we'll see how much it frees things up. More heat wrapping to do. Coolant bypassed from throttle also.

 

Nice one John

 

Big filter and MAF removal make no difference to power - within 1% of before! It didn't make it leaner at the same boost but it does sound less strained. Perhaps it will allow more boost, or perhaps I have wasted my time

I could take 5% fuel out to get it back where it was before, but there is no more timing to add on plain Optimax at peak power (resisting Scottimax ). I could and will do a lot more heat insulation around the intake, turbine housing etc, but they are small details not big power adders.

I am running 1.3 bar at 6000 RPM at about peak power, if it will run 1.4 bar efficiently I think it will do about 450 BHP ish, but there isn't really a lot more to come without funny fuel out of this setup I don't think.

 

Looks like its time to run Harvey Boost On the P450

 

Not on a std EJ257 short block !!!

John since all you are doing is applying a different method of picking a map point ( not denegrating what you have achieved here) then you surely could not expect to get more power from the same map values iyswim.

bob

 

I was expecting more power from freeing up the restriction caused by the APS cold air kit and its cast elbow though? Running on speed density I expected that when it was removed it would go a bit leaner as the turbo wouldn't be working as hard for the same inlet manifold pressure because there would be less drop in the inlet.

I boxed in the filter today, but I still had to run more boost to get 360 WHP on Delta Dash. Don't want to resort to NF or Scottimax just yet

 

Couldn't resist adding 10% methanol even though running 0.76 lambda in sympathy to the piston clearances, 1.6 bar at 6000 RPM at peak power.

Result was 392 WHP and 397 Wlbft in 4th gear on the 6MT on Delta Dash. Wonder if it would hit 400 WHP with a bit of leaning off? Bang The torque was certainly enjoyable... about 430-440 lbft flywheel?

With 1.5 bar and 10% methanol it did 380 WHP. Might be worth me using 1-2ml/litre NF for practicality to see if I can get the same. Doesn't feel too stressed doing this.

I think at 1.5 bar at Star it might just hit 450 BHP without additives.

 

John each time you are pushing for more and more power ..... i u want an everyday 500bhp car u should start looking at the new Corvette, it is already born with 400hp / 400lb.ft

Carlos H.

 

I don't think that last 10% is worth it for reliable daily use though so it is back at about 350 WHP and will probably stay there for at least 5 minutes

Have been looking at the Corvette as well I'm not a stunning wheelman though so need AWD to keep me between the hedges at this level.

 

well I know someone mad enough to fit the corvette engine to a granada and turbo it..

David