I know the feeling John

Can't believe you are still getting problems with your headers Mine have been as good as gold, but i think i have the second batch of gruppe-s, got a hayward & scott slip jointed up-pipe too

Will you be making Scooby shootout, Im looking a bit shady for it myself

Scott

 

Same here, I use version 2 gruppe-s units with a H&S slip jointed up-pipe and have experienced no problem (touches wood).

Carlos H.

 

John,

I think it's nothing uncommon that a compressor wheel is touching the housing with side force applied. The leak between manifold and uppipe could be caused by the massive backpressure you had with your TD05 turbine!

Mark.

 

LOL @ Mark

Richard

 

Mark, the contact is only in one direction though, none of the other turbos I've had have done this, and one Andy had on his Cosworth felt similar and exploded the compressor wheel soon after fitting. I think it is best to not be able to contact the compressor wall at all when spinning at 150000-200000 RPM.

434 BHP on a TD05 turbine I suppose does result in quite a lot of heat and pressure in the uppipe. But if I'm overdoing it why am I not blowing up engine internals yet

Courtesy of the group buy I have a new block sitting for collection from my Dad's when I visit him soon Although hopefully I won't need it if I stick to my project targets and run the new turbo cool and slow

 

That doesn´t sound well! Of course it´s hard to tell for me wheter the turbo is alright or not over the internet.....

Because you retard ignition massively and add knock suppressing additives to your fuel to avoid detonation! (you have to, because of the massive EBP before the turbo..... )

P.S. I am curious how the new turbo will perform!

Cheers,

Mark.

 

What, the new turbo's a TD04 ?

Seriously, thats a poor show, its not as if the Ion is inexpensive. About time you had some good luck with parts.

 

Compressor wheel touching the cover, mmmmmmm..... nice, lots of little compressor wheel particles going into the engine, best get hold your new block soon John.

 

Fixed now, it was only the wheel lightly touching a high spot on the paint, er I mean ceramic coating

Andy

 

Thanks Andy.

 

John

Just get a H&S slip jointed jobbie then all your troubles should be over - doesnt quite mate to the Gruppe S manifold being 54mm though..............

Scott

Which Turbo did you have in mind?

Whilst its probably been stated a few times on this and other sites before I'm not up to speed and want to know a realistic amount of power that the 6 speed boxes can take - AndyF has shed a whole new light on mods lately for me that I'm very seriously considering!!!

 

Steve, it is getting welded up next week when the iON is fitted.

Total cost for the iON turbo is £1400 not including changing the inlet pipe when you include the water and oil pipes and pay the duty and currency charges - even with weak dollar/strong £. Hope it is worth it

 

Steve,

The same sort of turbo thats fitted to Bobs STI5, which is the similar to the ION i think. GT30 with P20 housing or something. Looks like quite a direct replacement without too much trouble. Then aim to run it at about 480bhp and try and keep things reliable lol

 

I've got a couple of 2.5 projects as work in progress that are using that turbo, so far so good, somewhere on 22b.com is a thread in which Mark of Lateral posted a compressor map, coincidently that map is the map the Turbo Dynamics mailed me for this turbo, If I recall Mark, John B and Andy F amongst others all reckoned it was a good map for a 2.5, can't recall the subject but Christian's car was topical in it iirc which is why it was posted.

bob

 

Pavlos 2.5 has an interesting variation on this theme regards turbo, it runs a similar garrett cold end but with a Mitsubishi 06 hot end, still a direct bolt on.
It will be interesting to see a back to back comparison on a 2.5 his spool up seems to be very good and it wasn't hanging about on the 1/4m on Monday !

Andy

 

Andy that sounds like it could work, the secret is to balance the two ends togther.

bob

 

Paul's "Green" turbo version should be one of the best bolt on alternatives with good spool up ..... although for more top end a 8cm MHI exhaust housing should be the next upgrade.

Carlos H.

 

It seems like the 8cm housing is very rare, with various companies in the US buying up bits of stock.

However it should be possible for a few of these companies to make what I have but with the 8cm housing.

As for my performance so far with it, there is much more to come on the mapping front, I figure it's running about 15% too much fuel and should have a further 4 degrees of timing.

Paul

 

Will try a little smaller ver. of Paul's turbo ....as I think a stock EJ257 can't handle that sort of power in a long term..., and that 3" inlet is pretty big to

Jan

 

My block and gearbox are being ground slowly as the fit for the iON P450 with the EJ257 block and 6MT is ridiculous. It had already been ground quite a lot for the 20G.

Might get it back tomorrow.

 

Never had to grind anything off to fit my turbo

 

What up-pipe you using John?

Could it be that the up-pipe sits lower than most? hence you have to grind material away to get parts to fit?

 

It is the large bore Gruppe-S, but it has been welded with a 3mm insert in the collector to raise it a bit too.

There seems no natural way for it to sit, the compressor housing seems so big it would foul in most directions.

Thinking that rotated turbo would have been better.

 

I haven't seen a six speed, so maybe there would be an issue with having to grind that away, but not the engine block!!.

I'd be tempted to take headers off and refit (to check) a set of std headers and up-pipe. Just to see if it's the headers issue.

What does Jack say about any install issues?

 

What about a spacer on *top* of the up-pipe. Would this give the necessary clearance?

 

A spacer on the top might help a bit, but then there is clearance under the inlet manifold. It doesn't look easy in any direction. Will see how they get on tomorrow. I wasn't too happy with the idea of grinding the block, but it was done, and it didn't seem so silly when the positioning was seen.

 

John, i had to grind a fair amount off by bellhousing to get the MD321 in, ended up nearly losing an entire lug or removing a bolt cant remember which...

A better solution would be to rotate it, then get new upipe & downpipe made to suit. Added bonus of a nice straight inlet tract also that doesnt need to go under the manifold

 

I'm afraid this was known though, Harvey's issues were well documented on this. Perhaps the full extent of removal wasn't known.

Paul

 

How was your fit Paul ?

Andy

 

Spot on!

Wouldn't have been with a standard phase 2 inlet manifold though. However I did notice that the p20 housing and garrett core combination will bring the compressor much further back in the engine bay, allowing room for a flexible inlet pipe peice to make it's away round the manifold.

I had to remove half the lug at about 11 o'clock on the bell housing. Although that was mainly to clear the water pipe. I have pushed the turbo as far to the pass. side as possible to give max room for the inlet pipe with is straight 3" stainless.

I will do some pics of the installation as it is now.

Also I found a chisel was good for cutting the lug down, as it creates minimal swarf.

Paul