carlos_hiraoka

is this some kind of New Age WRX power contest ?

Razor2001

Thanks for the reply John. Yea but I am running a super delux, built by the top tech at Subaru Technica Institute JDM STI-7. Even with a plug-n-play concervative map I am expecting 260 whp. Heck I know (well so lots have claimed) of bog standard JDM STI-7's that have dyno'ed in at over 290 bhp.

Anyway....here is to hoping

Cheers,
Ray

PS: Yes I must say a congrats to all these recent mapping jobs....excellent results !!

EcuTek and the mappers deserve a hand.....imagine where we would be without delta dash to do the testing, both on the engine stats as well as the new dyno feature...awesome imho !

jonno

Cheers Pete, its much improved on 6 weeks ago
thats a result on that WRX keep it coming Pete/Pat

Deep, Watch this space

Jonno

dowser

I get the same 3rd/4th differences using the ap22 too - they are more exagerated with the current boost map though....

Car just hooks up better in 4th - 3rd is all over too quickly

Not sure about 350 fw though - I just add 23%. I will put it on a rolling road soon for comparative purposes (hasn't been near one for ages - I hate the damn things!)

Hasn't been above 5 degrees for around a month now....still need that better i/c for when it's gets warmer though

Richard

[Edited by dowser - 2/3/2003 11:50:27 AM]

john banks

I'll email you the logs later Steve. It helped adding 6 degrees of ignition timing at the top It only dets lightly when held back on the brakes, so I will need to take 2 degrees off for the rollers since the Star rollers really slug the car with massive load.

[Edited by john banks - 2/7/2003 10:31:50 AM]

john banks

It is now tuned ready for the Star rolling road on Sunday. Tonight's figures in 3rd gear 1300kg for car, 85kg driver, 95kg passenger, using default heavy smoothing:

If you make the smoothing light you get 335 BHP and 327 lbft but I don't believe it is that much although I can dream

Dyno Test: C:\DeltaDash\12.DDF
==============================

Maximum Wheel Power: 319.7 BHP @ 6417 RPM
Maximum Wheel Torque: 306.4 LbFt @ 4827 RPM
Power to weight ratio: 216.0 BHP per ton

Terminal velocity due to power: 190.7 mph

In Gear Acceleration:
30 - 50mph = 3.0 seconds
40 - 60mph = 2.2 seconds
50 - 70mph = 2.0 seconds
60 - 80mph = 2.0 seconds

Vehicle Mass: 1480kg
Drag Co-efficient: 0.35
Frontal Area: 2.20 square metres
Wheel/Tyre Setup: 215/40/17
Rev Limit: 7100
Test gear: 3
Max Speed of gear: 94 mph



Here is my ddf file:
http://www.johnbanks.dsl.pipex.com/12.DDF

[Edited by john banks - 2/7/2003 8:18:30 PM]

john banks

This Road Dyno software has revolutionised the performance of my car and the way I map it I have a series of twelve graphs starting from mildly interesting power working up to this. Was essential to see the improvements along the way. Most of it was from ignition timing, a bit from fuelling and top end boost.

Previously when I was shooting for 300 BHP at the wheels, I could have sworn a change I had made was going to make it go from 280 to 300 BHP, and it was certainly torquier in the midrange. In fact the top end power dropped to 260 BHP on AP22.

Now with Road Dyno I can log every little change I make to fuelling and timing, and it has helped me appreciate how significant these can be with the right turbo and cooling/breathing running at the right area of its compressor map.

Will need to see whether the chassis dyno results back it up on Sunday.

The following graph shows where I started on Wednesday with 3rd gear, with an overlay of tonight's session Have put quite a lot of mapping effort and other tweaks into this, but there are considerable gains across the range. Yes the early one was crap, but basically it was throwing on a TD05, induction pipe and uppipe onto a map designed for an MD304 with original uppipe and induction pipe, so it needed a fair few adjustments.



[Edited by john banks - 2/7/2003 9:05:09 PM]

WREXY

Here are my figures from the Delta Dash Dyno with heavy smoothing.



Maximum Wheel Power: 248.7 BHP @ 6283 RPM
Maximum Wheel Torque: 240.0 LbFt @ 4632 RPM
Power to weight ratio: 184.2 BHP per ton

Terminal velocity due to power: 175.4 mph

In Gear Acceleration:
30 - 50mph = 3.3 seconds
40 - 60mph = 2.5 seconds
50 - 70mph = 2.3 seconds
60 - 80mph = 2.5 seconds

Speed per 1000 RPM:
1st: 5.3 mph
2nd: 9.4 mph
3rd: 13.4 mph
4th: 18.9 mph
5th: 24.9 mph

Maximum Speed per Gear:
1st: 37.7 mph
2nd: 67.0 mph
3rd: 95.4 mph
4th: 134.1 mph
5th: 176.7 mph

Vehicle Mass: 1350kg
Drag Co-efficient: 0.35
Frontal Area: 2.20 square metres
Wheel/Tyre Setup: 205/50/16
Rev Limit: 7100
Test gear: 3
Max Speed of gear: 95 mph


MY00 with VF23 turbo, APS induction kit, 5 Zigen exhaust (catless midsection and backbox only), Ecutek Tek 3 off John Banks running 1.2 bar peak boost.

Stunning piece of kit, this Delta Dash.

Cheers,

Wrexy.




[Edited by WREXY - 2/10/2003 10:28:04 PM]

Forester_GP

Forester S-turbo MY'00 logs

Dyno Test: run3rdgear5 (Heavy)
======================

Maximum Wheel Power: 204.2 BHP @ 6114 RPM
Maximum Wheel Torque: 191.8 LbFt @ 4012 RPM
Power to weight ratio: 124.5 BHP per ton

Terminal velocity due to power: 152.6 mph

In Gear Acceleration:
30 - 50mph = 3.6 seconds
40 - 60mph = 3.5 seconds
50 - 70mph = 3.6 seconds
60 - 80mph = 3.9 seconds

Speed per 1000 RPM:
1st: 5.2 mph
2nd: 9.3 mph
3rd: 13.2 mph
4th: 18.6 mph
5th: 24.5 mph

Maximum Speed per Gear:
1st: 34.0 mph
2nd: 60.4 mph
3rd: 86.0 mph
4th: 120.9 mph
5th: 159.2 mph

Vehicle Mass: 1640kg
Drag Co-efficient: 0.40
Frontal Area: 2.40 square metres
Wheel/Tyre Setup: 215/65/16
Rev Limit: 6500
Test gear: 3
Max Speed of gear: 86 mph

(ECUTEK remap, TF035 @12.6 PSI, 3" GGR full exhaust, Samco intake + intercooler piping, TMIC + WS(not running) 8C ambient & max 22C intake temps)

Forgot to say that my final diff ratio and my tire profile are equivalent to a standard MY '00 Impreza tire+diff ratio

WREXY i need to get to JB's Bhp levels to compensate for my extra weight if I want to keep up with you.

George

[Edited by Forester_GP - 2/8/2003 6:39:00 PM]

john banks

Very odd set of results today.

At Star rolling road, 255.5 BHP at the wheels, 358 BHP at the flywheel, 326 lbft.

The Road dyno figures with 1360 kg last night on a level stretch of road showed 318 BHP at the wheels with heavy smoothing.

Dyno Test: C:\DeltaDash\13.DDF
==============================

Maximum Wheel Power: 318.4 BHP @ 5854 RPM
Maximum Wheel Torque: 310.7 LbFt @ 5008 RPM
Power to weight ratio: 234.1 BHP per ton

Terminal velocity due to power: 190.4 mph

In Gear Acceleration:
30 - 50mph = 2.9 seconds
40 - 60mph = 2.1 seconds
50 - 70mph = 1.8 seconds
60 - 80mph = 1.8 seconds

Vehicle Mass: 1360kg
Drag Co-efficient: 0.35
Frontal Area: 2.20 square metres
Wheel/Tyre Setup: 215/40/17
Rev Limit: 7100
Test gear: 3
Max Speed of gear: 94 mph



AP22 results today showed 323 BHP at the wheels in 3rd on the road, and 315 BHP at the wheels in 3rd on an airfield.

Another car showed 201 at the wheels on the rollers, and 250+ at the wheels on AP22.

Usually the figures are within 1% of the AP22.

In addition, over some 1/4 mile testing side by side on the airfield (untimed) there was no trouble seeing off a 420 BHP Evo 7 by a few car lengths, this was done twice with driver and passenger swapping over in both cars (I went against Andy F who has the best Scooby 1/4 mile times in the UK that we know of, I had never done one until today so thought the Evo with Andy in it would whip me).

So, in conclusion, what figures to trust? You don't get 1.8 second 60-80mph in 3rd times such as I have been getting with 358 BHP IMHO, and you don't beat 420 BHP Evos which only weigh about 100kg more by that much.

The AP22 figures agree with Road Dyno. It needs some testing against some of the other rollers, but personally I think that my car is about 315 BHP at the wheels, so about 384 BHP flywheel and about 305 lbft at the wheels. Andy F will post the AP22 results later.



Previously Star results were like Powerstation (ie low) until they started using temperature compensation like that of charge temperature, which we always thought was not correct. Now they are not then the power figures are about 20 BHP shy of what they were previously. Maybe I need to go to Well Lane to get figures at the opposite end of the spectrum (if it doesn't slip?) Doesn't underline my faith in rolling roads, but would have been nice had the AP22, Road Dyno and rollers all agreed. Perhaps PE rollers agree more closely?

The very odd thing that clinches it for me is that if you load up my 13.DDF run as printed above and put the drag co-efficient to 0.1 and the frontal area to 0.1 square metres (minimum to virtually eliminate drag!), you still need 297 BHP at the wheels to accelerate this quickly!

http://www.johnbanks.dsl.pipex.com/13.DDF

[Edited by john banks - 2/9/2003 7:22:00 PM]

john banks

Thanks Steve very interesting.

Star's run up time is really quite long, somewhere around 20 seconds, and the cooling is not as powerful as I remember PE's. The compensations they used were only 1.5 BHP so I ignored them. Previously you would often get a 57 to 60 C air temp and about 20 BHP added onto your flywheel figure. Apparently the Audis and VW 1.8T engines with 150 BHP make exactly this on these rollers if you compensate them for charge temperature, but they have stopped doing this as they agree it is not correct.

We did the first run in 3rd I think it was about 323 BHP flywheel. There was no slip detected on the rollers. The second run in 4th produced the higher printout you see. It was reaching target boost of 24 PSI on both occasions, dropping to 21.8 PSI at 6000 RPM, was det free and holding nicely (I had mapped in spare duty cycle for the rollers to ensure this).

Absolutely agree with your sentiments on working through this. The RR operator has invited Andy F and I to go along soon to try adjusting the run time to see how it influences the figures. We thought it might be good to setup a car so it makes about 250 at the wheels on AP22 and measure the run time and try to equalise them and see how it influences the figures.

Road Dyno results in 4th gear seem to be about 8 BHP lower than 3rd IIRC.

[Edited by john banks - 2/9/2003 8:35:51 PM]

Andy.F

Or just get them out on a table

Until very recently, my AP22 has managed to predict within 5 bhp the output of my car on the rollers. I've also used it on a number of other cars and the result has never been more than 2% out.

Can't understand why there is so much difference now

David IIRC you or one of your mates were videoing the WL runs ? What was the exact duration of the run from 2000 rpm to 7000 rpm ?

[Edited by Andy.F - 2/10/2003 4:59:33 PM]