super_si

i think you find to get the ram to run correctly with the CPU all i have to do is increase to fsb or 150 thank you.

I did research

Mkhan

No mate haven't touched 1942 to be honest...

Haven't even seen it..

Been playing Neverwinternights for the past 5 months as I was building my own module (game) for it which I have now finished and released on the Bioware public forum and now over the past two weeks I have been playing F1 2002.

I am suprised you don't like driving games... oh man it rocks.. plus with the steeling wheel and pedals.. and a few friends online to race against.. its wicked

super_si

Cheers nick

P1 Enthusiast

This seems a good thread to be asking some advice on;

Building dual monitor output machine so i can surf + game at same time AND play two online games at once using twin windows for game.

Planned Spec;

Dual Athlon 2 gig processors
1 gig Corsair DDR - limited via MB to DDR2700 i believe
Twin SCSI drives - one per game directory
Tekram controller card
Geforce Fx running dual monitor outputs

Now this will produce quite a bit of heat, but water cooling is easily ****ed up and i am a n00b at it, so just get some decent fans right? Any system flaws you can see?

Mr Footlong

iTrader: (7)

?

super_si

why not just use P43.06??

Mr Footlong

iTrader: (7)

I am going to let Si and the other's handle this, as I am dying of flu and quite frankly all typed out at the mo.
To sort out the potential problems that you are going to have with dual gaming etc, would require one of my patented novels. More too it than that tbh.Hopefully someone can sort you out more easily.

Being honest, sounds like a wind up to me.

Cheers,

Nick.

P1 Enthusiast

Well i can assure you its not a windup at all. I currently play EverQuest an online game and am looking forward to Star Wars Galaxies. Both games can run in windows and EQ can be run dual windows on one monitor using one system by alt tabbing. However, i want to see both characters at once, hence the dual monitor output.

I have tested the system on a friends Geforce 4600 and dual scsi drives, dual 1700 athlon processors and it worked fine. Sure it eats memory but a processor allocated per game worked fine. At least a gig of DDR needed tho as both games want as much memory as they can steal.

So if you think your technical knowledge can bring to light any problems i have forgotten please do so. It will be run in a 400W case optimised for cooling with some kind of mega fans - currently not favouring water cooling.

P1 Enthusiast

Apparently p4 3.0X although can do two tasks at once is not true multi tasking and thus wont handle allocation or prioritisation to TWO games at once and will instead 'fudge' it.

Alienware technical staff dont seem to think it will be upto it anyway.

super_si

it is true, it can handle 2 apps at once diving the processing time.

Just live with the lag till some super pc comes out

Si

P1 Enthusiast

More than happy to go dual processor to get what i want now how about some advice on my planned system since you all seem to be so knowledgeable?

Mr Footlong

iTrader: (7)

Sigh......

Give me a little while and I will come out with something resembling a decent response. Still dying from the flu or whatever, so got better things to do right now like die.

But, I agree that the 2 into 1 hyperthreading technology is cod, you will still end up with 2 very cpu intensive apps fighting it out. Performance will be better than with a normal cpu, but nowhere near as lag free as running 1 game on each cpu.

Think that unless you have already bought the SCSI kit, there is no need and over the top for a normal workstation. I have had pretty well everything, so feel able to say that

Cheers,

Nick

P1 Enthusiast

Aye i recognise i dont need scsi, but to be fair IDE is ****e and i want a more versatile HD that doesnt take 98% of system resources when in use.

Thanks for tips on what fan to use

Mr Footlong

iTrader: (7)

IDE taking up all of your resources when in use?

Man, sorry, but you are way behind the times

Very rare to get anywhere near that nowadays and even then in very, very few circumstances.

I was running 15K rpm SCSI 160 kit until 2/3 months ago, so have a good idea about that kit too

'Fan' info np.
Cheers,

Nick.

P1 Enthusiast

Mmm so you saying two IDE drives more than cut it? I thought IDE in general used 98% of resources when in use and SCSI uses 33%. As in someone at a LAN party can batter your drive for a game whilst you playing and you hardly notice, whereas on IDE you cannot do a thing until he finishes getting the game?

Know for a fact that my 7200rpm doesnt hack this and it was the best drive available 12 months ago.....

J4CKO

iTrader: (1)

This is all very impressive, I suggest you go to the nearest nightclub and tell all the tastiest women about it, ladies love an overclocker.....

Seriously though, I am due an upgrade, is there any point going for the ultimate spec as it just seems to be a lot more expensive for a little more performance, I want Doom 3, what do I need to run it, would a Geforce FX cut it on my Athlon XP 1700 rig ?
or do I need a new mobo (Currently EPOX 8KHA+)

Mr Footlong

iTrader: (7)

J4cko, a few thing spring to mind:

A XP1700+ was a great cpu when it came out and is probably a good match for your current VGA card, but to get the best link going between your machine and the next generation of VGA card, I would recommend selling your 1700 on and investing in say a XP2400+(good prices atm) IF your board is of a new enough revision, then you can natively run upto a XP2600+, but be careful, as there are 2 revisions of this chip. A 2600+ based on the usual 266(2x133) fsb speed and the 2600+ based on the 333(2x166) fsb. Your motherboard is not capable of kicking in 5/1 and 2.5/1 PCI and AGP bus speed locks, so if getting the 333-based 2600, you would either have to run the cpu slower than it should be or overclock the RAM, and all peripherals mounted onto or plugged into your motherboard. You prob know all of this and I am trying to simplify it somewhat, so shout if talking gibberish.

Your motherboard states the revision, printed on the botton left hand corner of the PCB, underneath the bottom PCI slot.

Have a look, make a note and goto or download this:

http://www.epox.nl/info/CPU-Support.pdf

This will tell you what your specific revision of kha will handle max. I was lucky getting a latern revison for a mate ages ago, as he is upgrading to a xp2600+ after they drop in price a little.

Now, as for the FX, I would wait and look for more news on the heavily rumoured/confirmed R350 core being made by ATI for release pretty soo after the FX release. I hate ATI, but they seem to have finally started to make decent silicon over the last year or 2, so I may well jump ship.

Cheers,

Nick

P1 Enthusiast

Nick,

Very impressive knowledge mate!

Ok so how the heck do i get two IDE drives to be buffered and striped? I want twin drives setup for an account on each for max data transfer useability? Which drives you recommend also?

Didnt know you could get IDE controller card? Only heard of SCSI with respect to this....

Mr Footlong

iTrader: (7)

Tons of motherboards come with built in IDE RAID controllers, but I have no idea if any of the dual amd board manufacturers fit them.

There are full Hardware RAID cards and the so-called Software RAID cards, but there is one particular maker that is a very strong performer in the IDE RAID market. Highpoint. Better then the promise controllers and the card that I am actually getting which is a great card is the RocketRAID 404. Shame it is expensive tho, at close to £100. I have seen it fitted to a couple of Motherboards costing the same, so

Basically a 4 channel enhanced 372 controller, which I currently have on my motherboard today.

Loads of diff cards to choose from, but my Fav card by far. If you don't need 4 channels, then go for a 372-based card, but I run 4 drives striped, so really want them as masters on their own channels

If you go this route and get a Highpoint 372 or 374 card, I would recommend setting the cluster size at 128 or 256K. I run 128K clusters personally.

Random Linkage:

http://www.techwarelabs.com/reviews/...rocketraid404/

http://www.thetechzone.com/display.php?i=167&p=1

http://www.xbitlabs.com/storage/hp-rocketraid404

http://www.reviewnation.com/r_raid1_1.shtml
(Has a dual cpu setup and lovely big piccy of large amount of data copying across on a mirror setup only using 6% cpu, so )

http://www.anandtech.com/storage/sho...tml?i=1491&p=1
(Old now, but still relevent and gives you a good idea, click print article to get whole thing displayed, as looong.)

http://www.overclockers.com.au/techstuff/a_raid0_ata133

http://www.highpoint-tech.com/reviews.htm

Like I said tho, SCSI is cool too

That's enough from me for now I think.


[Edited by Mr Footlong - 1/11/2003 3:34:27 PM]

[Edited by Mr Footlong - 1/11/2003 3:36:02 PM]

J4CKO

iTrader: (1)

Mr Footlong, many thanks for that, now have a direction for my research, I have this urge to go back to Intel at the moment after the last three pc's being AMD based but the XP upgrade into the same board sounds appealing

To be honest I dont play many games on it as they are such a pain in the **** to set up, all that tweaking, I quite like my PS2 at the moment but the upgrade of the pc hinges on somebody making a killer driving game, nothing really does it for me on the PC driving wise, only the GT series really custs it with me.

Mr Footlong

iTrader: (7)

J4cko, go have a look at the rev no mate!

Let me know, as interested

Like I said, will something like: REV 2.1 in the bottom left of the board

Cheers,

Nick

P1 Enthusiast

MMmm learnt tonnes today from those sites about just how to build a better case and good cases out there;

I recommend these sites for anyone else reading this thread with interest;

http://www.koolcases.com/
https://www.customcases.tv/shopping/

super_si

Well ive just being told

So im still undecided

thought you had 3.1 nick

[Edited by super_si - 1/9/2003 10:05:26 AM]

Mr Footlong

iTrader: (7)

Once again Si, sorry to doubt you, but at least for the moment, the motherboard makers are bound by Intel to run the RAM sync with the bus speed, not async.

So, this means that running a 2.8 stock @133 fsb, you are running ram at DDR266. Bump the clock to 150 fsb and you bump the RAM to DDR300, not 400. Like I said, there were hints originally about this, but it didn't appear in the released product.

Read things more thoroughly m8, not just what you want to see

I could be wrong on this one, but pretty unlikely.

Another thing that backs this usp is SiS touting their competitor chipset to GB and heavily pimping it's DDR333 Async capabilities.

Sorry m8.

Nick.

Edited as I typo'd a 1 for a 2

[Edited by Mr Footlong - 1/10/2003 5:27:33 PM]

Mr Footlong

iTrader: (7)

Actually, answers on a per question basis

Cooling first.

The main enemy, as I think you already know is going to be heat related with that rig. The dual athlons and xp running on mp/mpx chipsets have been well known and documented as overheating too often . This doesn't mean that you have to go turbo nutter fan cooling tho, but choose your cooling hardware carefully.
I have a couple of quick options that won't involve your pc deafening you.

1. CPU COOLING

IF they can fit, then I thouroughly recommend getting 2 Globalwin CAK4-88T Heatsinks. Excellent cooling without the insane fan speeds and noise associated with them. Not the most hardcore, but trully excellent and more than upto the job.

Quiet fan that have a temp sensor that actually presses against the heatsink at the base, but protected from air flow cooling, so the speed of the fans increases as needed, but still way, way quieter than the insane delta fans etc....

http://www.globalwinusa.com/products/cak488t.html gives you an idea.

Mobo Cooling.

Now, on the mp/mpx motherboards, when both cpus have been on full chat, some people have been experiencing heat issues around the atx connector on the pcb amongst others, such as the MOSFETS etc, so tbh, I would recommend purchasing a couple of quiet 120MM Papst or Panaflo fans and mounting them in the side of the Case, but charging air onto the Mobo, not drawing out, The direct air pushing onto the mobo in this setup will be more beneficial than running the fans drawing air out. The ambient temp within thecase will most likely be slightly warmer( when compared with negative predssure cooling), as you will prob be running with positive air pressure in your case, but my feeling is that this will be better for the stability and longevity of your mobo. I ran positive pressure on my old dual athlon rig, after swapping it from negative, as after long, long periods under load on hot days, I would get problems with crashing. The cooler the mobo was, the better she was. On normal days, 100% stable

Watercooling really is pretty easy and safe tbh nowadays, but aircooling is still by far the easiest thing to do, so I understand your view

Cheers,

Nick

Edited to fix most/all of the awful typos I made and add a couple of bits, but hey, I'm still ill


[Edited by Mr Footlong - 1/10/2003 5:35:16 PM]

super_si

lol and i thought i tested your patience

[Edited by super_si - 1/10/2003 9:35:56 PM]

Mr Footlong

iTrader: (7)

Stuck side by side, say a IBM Deskstar 120GXP and say a Seagate Cheetah 15Krpm 36LP SCSI160 drive, the Seagate will win every time. Choose Sandra benchmark for example. The single IBM drive will sustain approx 28mb/s transfer, whereas the Seagate sustains about 42mb/s.
These were taken from tests done by me on my own kit.

As for resources used, I haven't heard of drives taking up all of your resources since the days of NT4 and non-DMA drives.

The disk controller plays a heavy part in this too, so for both IDE and SCSI, there is no way that you can say that drive X when running will use exactly so and so resources when in use and drive Y when running will use exactly so and so resources.

Get a decent HD controller, be it IDE or SCSI and your performance is optimized and overheads/bottlenecks potentialy reduced nicely.

The speed thing wasn't in question, but just to say that I am a big fan of IDE RAID, but being in this game for a living, I am fully aware of the risks, which some on here have ignored or not taken seriously until something goes pete tong on them.

You stripe drives without mirroring, you double the chances of you having a drive failure and losing everything. Simple as that.
But, if you are after it for the performance and buy sensibly, then your kit for raw data transferring and a fair few other things will completely trounce a single SCSI drive, period. There are slight disadvantages in a few specific tasks, but nothing that would vaguely count as noticible for 'normal users'.

Using the same kit as above, but with 2 IBM drives striped together, I sustain 55mb/ throughput and you get nothing like 100% cpu or PCI bus utilization. I have used the setup above file sharing whilst doing intensive stuff and have experienced nothin like what you are saying. CPU's are becoing so powerful now that it is becoming less and less important. The Twin WD 8mb cache drives that I run striped together for games sustain 58mb/s if memory serves

I can understand both the IDE camp and the SCSI camp, I love both, so you choose what is best for you in your mind

Cheers,

Nick



[Edited by Mr Footlong - 1/11/2003 11:20:33 AM]