RB5320

SB- good point!

Senior_AP

Undertaking is when you go past somebody on there left and proceed to pull out in front of them. If you merely were going faster in the inner-most lane (where the other 3 pr!cks should have been anyway) then you have done nothing wrong at all. The rule is "stay left unless overtaking". The 3 pr!cks were not overtaking therefore THEY were in the wrong as THEY SHOULD have been in the inner-most lane.

Fools mate, all of 'em.

If you were "erratic" in your movements then the copper was probably annoyed with that.

image doctor

While you are correct in what you are saying AP, then at what distance do you have to be from the vehicle in front to attemp to overtake.

If its 30 metres (guess) and they were all less than 30 metres form the vehicle, then he is in the wrong.

If they were further away than 30 metres he was perfectly within his rights, if you catch my drift.

Stuart Knight

iTrader: (2)

I have personal experience of this, was done for undertaking on my bike on the M40. the whole police case hinged on the word "accelerate". I maintained I moved into lane 3 (from 4) and that the traffic outside slowed (which it did). Both officers however stood up in court and used the word accelerate and I was done for. Should have pleaded guilty and taken the three points and a small fine, instead got 5 points (careless driving) AND £250 fine AND £160 costs!

Senior_AP

It is a grey area. Common sense prevails here.

I often "make better progress" in inner most lanes but don't tend to undertake (I'm no saint, just generally).

If everybody stayed left unless overtaking, none of this would be an issue. This thread wouldn't exist and traffic would flow a lot better.

Thank you for listening people!!

Markus

Ok, I hold my hands up to undertaking, but not all the time, cos I know it's not legal and it's somewhat dangerous.

I only do it if there are ****** in the outside and middle lanes who will NOT move over, and the inside lane is clear, and believe me, this situation occurs quite a bit.

I drive a fair bit in the USA and I've never, ever had a problem with being undertaken or unertaking myself, it's a sensible thing to be able to do.

I do wish the police would do more to those who sit in the middle lane holding up traffic when the inside lane is clear. Just because they are not hooning along does not mean they are not causing a problem. Plus, and this is is in't really a good excuse I know, but it CAN cause some of us weaker souls to consider, or actually, undertake them, simply to get past them and the other people who are not adhering to the highway code.
I know, i know, sounds pompus, and **** it, I DON'T stick to the highway code, so very pompus, but my 2p's worth.

image doctor

Also part of the reason our motorways appear so congested.

***** trundling along in the middle lane do a great job of reducing the 3 lane carriage way to a dual carriage way!

Phil Harrison

I bet they won't press charges And make it clear you'll defend if they do! That'll discourage them.

Phil

Diesel

Treat the cause not the effect...now that would be pragmatic policing.

Hope they allow passing on all lanes of the 'freeway' here soon. Causes no probs in the States, and there is no way we will educate these 'I own the right hand lane' idiots. I also feel it is a peculiarly South East disease?

Fight it mate...

Regacy

Does the prosecution stop you from reacting to idiots stacked up in the right hand lane?
Not me.
It just means I do a better job of checking my mirrors for police cars before I manoeuvre.
It's getting caught that's the problem not your driving.

LG John

Now I can tell you about the time I did 130mph in a 30 zone and didn't get caught and I won't get flamed

ScoobyDuck

iTrader: (1)

I think the TURNING LEFT AT THE NEXT ROUNDABOUT is the key point here.
If you can say you moved over (as you should) and then accellerated to the limit (speed ) ready to turn left at the next, then they'd have to explain WHY thats bad !
just coz those others didnt move over & didnt get to the limit as quickly shouldnt affect you!

all depends on how agressively you did it & how loud that zorst sounded. but all this is just the coppers opinion & he will have to back it up with something!
like everyone else says, I'd talk to the guys senior officer & if it gets to court, get a brief & I think you could get away with it using the above bits!

Steve
(not got a clue ... just what I think)

DazW

iTrader: (1)

Posh,

Definatley fight it m8, especially if you've got a clean licence- Id also take some piccy's of the road layout- and if you can get one with a few cars in the right hand lane indicating to go right at the roundabout, then all the better ...& if you cant, Im sure you've got a few mates who could help

SB -I think the key here is that Posh didnt hit anything or take a trip into the scenery


DazW

[Edited by DazW - 11/29/2002 10:09:30 AM]

LG John

Neither did I!!!!! In the fuel surge thread I spun the car, hit nowt and came to a stop with the back wheels just off the road on a grass verge - hardly hitting something and flying through bushes and the like.

Besides I was comparing the undertaking to my 'revenge ' thread

pbee

EVIDENCE !!!!.

How many policeman where in the car ??. If he was on his own, ask to see the video evidence of the proposed undertake as you were just changing lanes to be in the correct lane for the next roundabout and the outside traffic slowed.

what no video ???, didnt he have a vascar unit.

its your word against his and it will not stand up in court. I got away with a speeding fine because of this technicality, all because the copper was on his own and didnt operate the incar video unit.

might be worth a try, they think most people wil just roll over and take whatever they want to dish out, but if you have a good reason why it will notstand up in court they dont normaly bother.

how far behind was the copper when the incident took place, 1/2 a mile is a long way for him to catch you up. could he see the incident properly.

T.C

The specific offence of undertaking (particularly on a Motorway) was removed from the statute books about 26 - 27 years ago, mainly because of the idiots who clogged up lanes 2 & 3 (Sorry there is no such thing as the "Fast" Lane).

The policy in my old force, is that provided no other vehicle is caused to alter course or speed, no other road user is endangered, and speed of the vehicle in the nearside lane is appropriate for the conditions then no offence will have been committed, however, should an accident occur as a result of the nearside undertake, then the driver who undertook MAY be guilty of driving without due care and attention.

If it were an offence, then traffic filtering in lane 1 when lanes two and three were stationary would all be commiting offences.

BTW the Highway Code in itself is not law, it is simply a guide for use by road users and is used to support the prosecution of offenders.

DazW

iTrader: (1)

SB -not having a go m8...honest was also refering to Andy's 'incident' that I also noticed you commented on

DazW

(Who's had more than a few ...'ahem' moments )

wrx

There are alot of Jelous coppers out there ruining it for the others. Spend the money and get a barister cost a bit but I walked. (alot of coppers think they know the law but find out otherwise at some point Over the five years you have to declare your points to insurance it was probably cheaper.

You also get the advantage of smiling at said copper when you walk out of court and every time you see him.

Scooby_Maxus

As previously stated many countries operate a policy of so called "undertaking" where all lanes have equal precedence (USA etc). When you wish to change lane, you use the appropriate safe practice of mirror-signal-manoeuvre.

Because we blindly stick to the pass on the right rule we have miles of our motorways clogged in the outside lane. It makes no sense. Change the dumb law and lets use the roads to there capacity.

siwrx

god some people are full of ****

whats so dangerous about undertaking? Whats the first thing you get taught when changing lanes in your driving test whether it be changing up or down a lane? Look in your mirrors and check your blind spot for another car. Do you swerve out into the fast lane without looking? I doubt it, so whats different with the slow lane? I think undertaking is only dangerous because too many ****** on the road dont look where theyre going. Undertaking is safe enough if performed sensibly.

The most dangerous manouvere on the road is not paying attention which far too many people do

CTR

Agree entirely with the post above.

The Policeman mentioned sounds a bit of kn0bber on a power trip, I mean it not as if I havent ever seen a police car undertake in similar circumstances(without their lights on), but its undoubtably safe when they do it.