And so it begins
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There is something very strange going on regarding this. That convoy has been a sitting duck for days and remains untouched. It has stalled numerous times since crossing the border from Belarus largely believed to be due to lack of fuel and miscalculated logistics. Yet it still crawls a few miles each day closer to Kyiv unchallenged. Also Russian air superiority has not been established when they have a massively powerful airforce. One that would outnumber Ukrainian fighters to the point they wouldn't be able to hit a single target unchallenged. No military analyst knows why or what Russia are playing at regarding the lack of air superiority - one of the first tactical moves of an invasion.
Poland also announced yesterday they would allow Ukrainian pilots to fly the newly delivered fighter jets out of Poland as opposed to ship them across the Ukrainian border first. That is a very dangerous admission to make as it drags Poland into the war by alllowing the use of one of its airfileds for Ukranian fighters to take off and hit Russian positions. It was only a minor news article that then seems to have been swept under the carpet. A bit late to realise they shouldn't have announced it.
Also the latest talk of NATO considering a no fly zone is bizarre. They know the only way to enforce that is to shoot down Russian jets which will be an act of war and the start of WW3. They aren't going to do that so why even mention a no fly zone.
I also don't believe drones aren't being used controlled by western allies as how is Russia going to prove that one as they can take off from Ukraine but be controlled from pretty much anywhere in the World and Russia knows full well the west is providing vast amounts of miltary hardware to Ukraine. However why aren't the drones in Ukraine whoever is flying them not attacking that 40 mile convoy whilst it's a sitting duck.
A week has passed and the Kremlin has not met any of it's objectives when it is a military superpower attacking a much much smaller military force. And now after saying all week NATO are not getting involved they start sabre rattling with talk of a no fly zone. Many things in this war do not add up.
Poland also announced yesterday they would allow Ukrainian pilots to fly the newly delivered fighter jets out of Poland as opposed to ship them across the Ukrainian border first. That is a very dangerous admission to make as it drags Poland into the war by alllowing the use of one of its airfileds for Ukranian fighters to take off and hit Russian positions. It was only a minor news article that then seems to have been swept under the carpet. A bit late to realise they shouldn't have announced it.
Also the latest talk of NATO considering a no fly zone is bizarre. They know the only way to enforce that is to shoot down Russian jets which will be an act of war and the start of WW3. They aren't going to do that so why even mention a no fly zone.
I also don't believe drones aren't being used controlled by western allies as how is Russia going to prove that one as they can take off from Ukraine but be controlled from pretty much anywhere in the World and Russia knows full well the west is providing vast amounts of miltary hardware to Ukraine. However why aren't the drones in Ukraine whoever is flying them not attacking that 40 mile convoy whilst it's a sitting duck.
A week has passed and the Kremlin has not met any of it's objectives when it is a military superpower attacking a much much smaller military force. And now after saying all week NATO are not getting involved they start sabre rattling with talk of a no fly zone. Many things in this war do not add up.
There is something very strange going on regarding this. That convoy has been a sitting duck for days and remains untouched. It has stalled numerous times since crossing the border from Belarus largely believed to be due to lack of fuel and miscalculated logistics. Yet it still crawls a few miles each day closer to Kyiv unchallenged. Also Russian air superiority has not been established when they have a massively powerful airforce. One that would outnumber Ukrainian fighters to the point they wouldn't be able to hit a single target unchallenged. No military analyst knows why or what Russia are playing at regarding the lack of air superiority - one of the first tactical moves of an invasion.
Poland also announced yesterday they would allow Ukrainian pilots to fly the newly delivered fighter jets out of Poland as opposed to ship them across the Ukrainian border first. That is a very dangerous admission to make as it drags Poland into the war by alllowing the use of one of its airfileds for Ukranian fighters to take off and hit Russian positions. It was only a minor news article that then seems to have been swept under the carpet. A bit late to realise they shouldn't have announced it.
Also the latest talk of NATO considering a no fly zone is bizarre. They know the only way to enforce that is to shoot down Russian jets which will be an act of war and the start of WW3. They aren't going to do that so why even mention a no fly zone.
I also don't believe drones aren't being used controlled by western allies as how is Russia going to prove that one as they can take off from Ukraine but be controlled from pretty much anywhere in the World and Russia knows full well the west is providing vast amounts of miltary hardware to Ukraine. However why aren't the drones in Ukraine whoever is flying them not attacking that 40 mile convoy whilst it's a sitting duck.
A week has passed and the Kremlin has not met any of it's objectives when it is a military superpower attacking a much much smaller military force. And now after saying all week NATO are not getting involved they start sabre rattling with talk of a no fly zone. Many things in this war do not add up.
Poland also announced yesterday they would allow Ukrainian pilots to fly the newly delivered fighter jets out of Poland as opposed to ship them across the Ukrainian border first. That is a very dangerous admission to make as it drags Poland into the war by alllowing the use of one of its airfileds for Ukranian fighters to take off and hit Russian positions. It was only a minor news article that then seems to have been swept under the carpet. A bit late to realise they shouldn't have announced it.
Also the latest talk of NATO considering a no fly zone is bizarre. They know the only way to enforce that is to shoot down Russian jets which will be an act of war and the start of WW3. They aren't going to do that so why even mention a no fly zone.
I also don't believe drones aren't being used controlled by western allies as how is Russia going to prove that one as they can take off from Ukraine but be controlled from pretty much anywhere in the World and Russia knows full well the west is providing vast amounts of miltary hardware to Ukraine. However why aren't the drones in Ukraine whoever is flying them not attacking that 40 mile convoy whilst it's a sitting duck.
A week has passed and the Kremlin has not met any of it's objectives when it is a military superpower attacking a much much smaller military force. And now after saying all week NATO are not getting involved they start sabre rattling with talk of a no fly zone. Many things in this war do not add up.
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From: UK
Last edited by An0n0m0us; Mar 3, 2022 at 08:49 AM.
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From: Wildberg, Germany/Reading, UK
They can not enforce a no fly zone as it would also ground Ukrainian jets and drones. Which would mean they would not be able to attack Russian units from the air which would then give the Russian ground troops more security to advance without the worry of air strikes.
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From: Friedrichshafen Germany/Preston UK
It took weeks... well one or two weeks, on that occasion before Britain itself was involved in that little conflict... What was it called now? Oh yeah, the first world war!
Yeah, media coverage 100 years ago was terrible!
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From: Friedrichshafen Germany/Preston UK
Putins first target in the war was to destroy the Ukrainian military airfields using long range rockets and cruise missiles, essentially disabling the Ukrainian air force, before Ukraine even knew it was at war.
Since then many of the Russian planes that have been flying in Ukraine have been shot down thanks to advanced anti-aircraft weaponry gifted to Ukraine by the West, which Putin probably wasn't aware of.
The result is Putin is probably reluctant to send in aircraft which he is likely to lose, at great expense both financially and from a moral perspective back home.
Additionally, the Ukrainians seem to have needed their forces into urban areas, rather than open areas away from civilians. This makes it difficult for Putin to attack from the air without inflicting significant civilian casualties. In a more conventional war, where you are trying to "punish" another country, then in such cases you may not care too much about civilians being hit, but in this case, it seems like Putin is attempting a land grab, which means he also has to deal with the consequences when the war ends. The greater the civilian casualties and destruction to civilian buildings and infrastructure, then the greater the resistance against the new regime afterwards.
Afghanistan is a perfect example of how going in hard alienates the locals who then continue to fight as terrorists for years afterwards. Putin could have gone in a lot harder, but I think he's strategically trying to keep the war soft in order to avoid the mistakes the West made in Afghanistan and have a smoother and more accepted regime change.
It's likely that he underestimated the level and effectiveness of defence from the Ukrainians, thinking he'd have captured Kiev in a couple of days. Things have not gone his way though and now it seems he's getting annoyed and turning to the bigger weapons.
The problem is, he can't back down now without looking weak, but the longer the war goes on, the weaker he also becomes back home. There is also a great danger for him that Russian regions like Chechnya will see this as an opportunity to fight for their own independence again while the army is distracted in the West. My guess is he will be trying desperately to negotiate a peace deal now where he can secure the Russian speaking regions in the East of Ukraine in order to save face with his own people. The question is if Ukraine are willing to to succeed that land to him or if they'd rather die defending their existing borders. Defacto is Russia has been ruling those areas since 2014 anyway, so it may not be a bad move for Ukraine to give them up if Putin is willing to accept the rest of Ukraine joins the EU and NATO. A win-win so to speak!
Since then many of the Russian planes that have been flying in Ukraine have been shot down thanks to advanced anti-aircraft weaponry gifted to Ukraine by the West, which Putin probably wasn't aware of.
The result is Putin is probably reluctant to send in aircraft which he is likely to lose, at great expense both financially and from a moral perspective back home.
Additionally, the Ukrainians seem to have needed their forces into urban areas, rather than open areas away from civilians. This makes it difficult for Putin to attack from the air without inflicting significant civilian casualties. In a more conventional war, where you are trying to "punish" another country, then in such cases you may not care too much about civilians being hit, but in this case, it seems like Putin is attempting a land grab, which means he also has to deal with the consequences when the war ends. The greater the civilian casualties and destruction to civilian buildings and infrastructure, then the greater the resistance against the new regime afterwards.
Afghanistan is a perfect example of how going in hard alienates the locals who then continue to fight as terrorists for years afterwards. Putin could have gone in a lot harder, but I think he's strategically trying to keep the war soft in order to avoid the mistakes the West made in Afghanistan and have a smoother and more accepted regime change.
It's likely that he underestimated the level and effectiveness of defence from the Ukrainians, thinking he'd have captured Kiev in a couple of days. Things have not gone his way though and now it seems he's getting annoyed and turning to the bigger weapons.
The problem is, he can't back down now without looking weak, but the longer the war goes on, the weaker he also becomes back home. There is also a great danger for him that Russian regions like Chechnya will see this as an opportunity to fight for their own independence again while the army is distracted in the West. My guess is he will be trying desperately to negotiate a peace deal now where he can secure the Russian speaking regions in the East of Ukraine in order to save face with his own people. The question is if Ukraine are willing to to succeed that land to him or if they'd rather die defending their existing borders. Defacto is Russia has been ruling those areas since 2014 anyway, so it may not be a bad move for Ukraine to give them up if Putin is willing to accept the rest of Ukraine joins the EU and NATO. A win-win so to speak!
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From: Riding the crest of a wave
That certainly seems a plausible analysis, the irony being, it could be argued and it's hopefully the case that such drastic unpopular action will lead to the downfall of the Kremlin sooner rather than later.
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From: UK
Putin sent old tanks and young troops plus few special forces. 8000 tanks and 900 planes waiting for Nato to step in
China is waiting to
he could destroy Kiev in few minutes using thermobaric bombs one drop will cover 40km2
China is waiting to
he could destroy Kiev in few minutes using thermobaric bombs one drop will cover 40km2
Last edited by JdmSti2006; Mar 4, 2022 at 02:11 PM.
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1991 - invasion of Georgia;
1992 - invasion of Moldova;
1994 - invasion of Chechnya;
1998 - invasion of Georgia again;
2014 - invasion of Ukraine (Crimea);
2015 - Syria
2022 - Ukraine
As part of the USSR - Hungary 1956 and Czechoslovakia 1968
==== edit ==== Forgot to add Afghanistan !!
Last edited by albob; Mar 5, 2022 at 02:45 PM.
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From: Riding the crest of a wave
What is China waiting to do ?!
This is where Putin is getting his attitude from , together with admonishing Gorbachov for destroying the empire
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_anti-Zionism
This is where Putin is getting his attitude from , together with admonishing Gorbachov for destroying the empire
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_anti-Zionism
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From: Scaberdeen
I think you have to see it from a Russian point of view that NATO continues to edge closer to their border.
All of these modern day problems are deeply routed in history. Gorbarchev had made it clear about concerns of continued NATO expansion eastward which happened anyway, despite telling Gorbachev otherwise. Rightfully so, this will worry the Russians, given that NATO was formed after WW2 purely as a 'defensive' alliance against a potential European threat / invasion by the USSR.
People have a hard time understanding why it its acceptable for the Russians to see NATO as a threat. The Cold War era saw the Americans going into meltdown with missles placed in Cuba and being less than 100 miles from American soil. You could argue the exact same point in relation to NATO expansion and aquiring Ukraine, thus allowing NATO military and 'defensive' capabilities to be placed closer and closer to the Russian border.
You can argue, 'but NATO is defensive and is not preparing an attack by having its military assets placed in Ukraine, so Russia has nothing to worry about'. Whilst that might hold some degree of truth, no one can guarantee that, it's all about a POTENTIAL existential threat from another nation and to be ready for them.
There were no issues regarding proper conflict in Ukraine prior to the announcement in 2008 regarding NATOs welcoming of Ukraine and Georgia. Angela Merkel warned NATO about this in 2008. Shortly after, Georgia saw conflict as Russia continues to worry again about NATO expansion.
The overthrow of Yanukovych in 2014 by coup which was supported by many western politicians (with lots of supporting evidence to point towards western political involvement) was the beginning of the civil war in the Donbas region, beginning with widespread protests known as the Euromaidan or the Ukrainian Revolution. It was all over the heads of a European and Euroasian trade deal and Yanukovych wanting to go ahead with the Eurasian one. It shows a strong enough political divide in Ukraine on both sides that shouldn't be ignored. 8 years of fighting in this region and we only hear about war crimes by Russia in 2022? Im sorry but Ukraine is no saint, there has been plenty of tragedies in the Donbas region which dont seem to make their way into western aligned media. When the West, such as UK, Canada and America is seen to be providing training and military assistance to Ukraine during this civil war, it again shows an invested threat against Russia by the West.
The West has been playing a game of chicken with Russia for too long and its blown up in their faces with the Ukranians being in the middle of it all and being dragged through the mud.
All of these modern day problems are deeply routed in history. Gorbarchev had made it clear about concerns of continued NATO expansion eastward which happened anyway, despite telling Gorbachev otherwise. Rightfully so, this will worry the Russians, given that NATO was formed after WW2 purely as a 'defensive' alliance against a potential European threat / invasion by the USSR.
People have a hard time understanding why it its acceptable for the Russians to see NATO as a threat. The Cold War era saw the Americans going into meltdown with missles placed in Cuba and being less than 100 miles from American soil. You could argue the exact same point in relation to NATO expansion and aquiring Ukraine, thus allowing NATO military and 'defensive' capabilities to be placed closer and closer to the Russian border.
You can argue, 'but NATO is defensive and is not preparing an attack by having its military assets placed in Ukraine, so Russia has nothing to worry about'. Whilst that might hold some degree of truth, no one can guarantee that, it's all about a POTENTIAL existential threat from another nation and to be ready for them.
There were no issues regarding proper conflict in Ukraine prior to the announcement in 2008 regarding NATOs welcoming of Ukraine and Georgia. Angela Merkel warned NATO about this in 2008. Shortly after, Georgia saw conflict as Russia continues to worry again about NATO expansion.
The overthrow of Yanukovych in 2014 by coup which was supported by many western politicians (with lots of supporting evidence to point towards western political involvement) was the beginning of the civil war in the Donbas region, beginning with widespread protests known as the Euromaidan or the Ukrainian Revolution. It was all over the heads of a European and Euroasian trade deal and Yanukovych wanting to go ahead with the Eurasian one. It shows a strong enough political divide in Ukraine on both sides that shouldn't be ignored. 8 years of fighting in this region and we only hear about war crimes by Russia in 2022? Im sorry but Ukraine is no saint, there has been plenty of tragedies in the Donbas region which dont seem to make their way into western aligned media. When the West, such as UK, Canada and America is seen to be providing training and military assistance to Ukraine during this civil war, it again shows an invested threat against Russia by the West.
The West has been playing a game of chicken with Russia for too long and its blown up in their faces with the Ukranians being in the middle of it all and being dragged through the mud.
Last edited by Dreep; Mar 5, 2022 at 02:58 PM.
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Dreep,
In your post you have given to impression that the Euromaiden protest was in the Donbas region. It took place in Kyiv against the Prime Ministers decision not to sign the agreement with the EU
From Wikipedia
"..The protests were sparked by the Ukrainian government's sudden decision not to sign the European Union–Ukraine Association Agreement, instead choosing closer ties to Russia and the Eurasian Economic Union. Ukraine's parliament had overwhelmingly approved of concluding the Agreement with the EU. Russia had put pressure on Ukraine to reject it.."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euroma...e)%20in%20Kyiv.
In your post you have given to impression that the Euromaiden protest was in the Donbas region. It took place in Kyiv against the Prime Ministers decision not to sign the agreement with the EU
From Wikipedia
"..The protests were sparked by the Ukrainian government's sudden decision not to sign the European Union–Ukraine Association Agreement, instead choosing closer ties to Russia and the Eurasian Economic Union. Ukraine's parliament had overwhelmingly approved of concluding the Agreement with the EU. Russia had put pressure on Ukraine to reject it.."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euroma...e)%20in%20Kyiv.
Last edited by albob; Mar 5, 2022 at 02:54 PM.
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From: Scaberdeen
Dreep,
In your post you have given to impression that the Euromaiden protest was in the Donbas region. It took place in Kyiv against the Prime Ministers decision not to sign the agreement with the EU
From Wikipedia
"..The protests were sparked by the Ukrainian government's sudden decision not to sign the European Union–Ukraine Association Agreement, instead choosing closer ties to Russia and the Eurasian Economic Union. Ukraine's parliament had overwhelmingly approved of concluding the Agreement with the EU. Russia had put pressure on Ukraine to reject it.."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euroma...e)%20in%20Kyiv.
In your post you have given to impression that the Euromaiden protest was in the Donbas region. It took place in Kyiv against the Prime Ministers decision not to sign the agreement with the EU
From Wikipedia
"..The protests were sparked by the Ukrainian government's sudden decision not to sign the European Union–Ukraine Association Agreement, instead choosing closer ties to Russia and the Eurasian Economic Union. Ukraine's parliament had overwhelmingly approved of concluding the Agreement with the EU. Russia had put pressure on Ukraine to reject it.."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euroma...e)%20in%20Kyiv.
Last edited by Dreep; Mar 5, 2022 at 02:58 PM.
