Engine Bay Heat Reduction - Question Time!
05 July 2018, 08:40 AM
#31
Scooby Regular
Just don't Rob.
Fitting a low temperature thermostat is idiotic.
All you are doing is guaranteeing the engine will run too cold at cruise speeds, which is bad for engine life, power delivery and fuel consumption.
Your problem, assuming the head gaskets aren't cooked, is the capacity of the cooling system is too low for the load you are asking it to manage.
All you do when you fit a low temperature thermostat is drop the start temperature point for a power pull, any sustained load use will not be helped by this, the vast majority of the time your engine will be running far too cold. There is a reason why the stock thermostat is at the temperature it is.
Sort your problem out properly by improving the water cooling system, sticking a FMIC on the car will have made matters worse.
My own car uses a bespoke water radiator with a combined oil cooler core, its a very neat and efficient system.
Fitting a low temperature thermostat is idiotic.
All you are doing is guaranteeing the engine will run too cold at cruise speeds, which is bad for engine life, power delivery and fuel consumption.
Your problem, assuming the head gaskets aren't cooked, is the capacity of the cooling system is too low for the load you are asking it to manage.
All you do when you fit a low temperature thermostat is drop the start temperature point for a power pull, any sustained load use will not be helped by this, the vast majority of the time your engine will be running far too cold. There is a reason why the stock thermostat is at the temperature it is.
Sort your problem out properly by improving the water cooling system, sticking a FMIC on the car will have made matters worse.
My own car uses a bespoke water radiator with a combined oil cooler core, its a very neat and efficient system.
or is it thermostatic so no effect till up there just maintains nice even & low temps really well ?
05 July 2018, 09:07 AM
#32
Scooby Regular
Cheers Everyone.
All your points noted John, as said it with the garage next week so hopefully get to the bottom of it.
I need to get an oil cooler I know, will sort today, recommend any?
The car was fine on the current set up running TMIC, only changes were FMIC, 4 bar map sensor, fuel pressure regulator.... Yes the radiator air flow is now restricted but never experience this before.
Robert
All your points noted John, as said it with the garage next week so hopefully get to the bottom of it.
I need to get an oil cooler I know, will sort today, recommend any?
The car was fine on the current set up running TMIC, only changes were FMIC, 4 bar map sensor, fuel pressure regulator.... Yes the radiator air flow is now restricted but never experience this before.
Robert
05 July 2018, 01:24 PM
#34
Buy the hatch version of mine. Very short pipe runs and proper airflow through the cores.
If you do use a normal off the shelf cooler, the airflow through it is really important, it wont work if its not got good airflow in and out.
If you do use a normal off the shelf cooler, the airflow through it is really important, it wont work if its not got good airflow in and out.
05 July 2018, 01:25 PM
#35
I didn't notice any change in warm up time compared to a modine, the stat in the takeoff plate controls the temperature nicely.
05 July 2018, 05:21 PM
#37
All the cap is doing is increasing the boiling point of the coolant, a higher pressure cap will increase that boiling point, but if you never get temperatures high enough to go over the boiling point, a higher pressure cap will do nothing for you.
I run the stock 1.1BAR cap, on a very hot day on a track thrash it would give a bit more headroom from higher EGT water temp spikes with a 1.3BAR, i wouldn't go any higher than that because as you up the pressure the water system seals get more work to do.
On the F1 cars i run we only use 0.89BAR caps, any higher and the water passes the water pump seals. If the cooling system capacity is properly sized you don't need high pressure.
05 July 2018, 05:25 PM
#38
Yes, still using the Black 2.1 JDM, i've been running this package for a very long time now, its well proven and works.
05 July 2018, 07:34 PM
#39
Cheers Everyone.
All your points noted John, as said it with the garage next week so hopefully get to the bottom of it.
I need to get an oil cooler I know, will sort today, recommend any?
The car was fine on the current set up running TMIC, only changes were FMIC, 4 bar map sensor, fuel pressure regulator.... Yes the radiator air flow is now restricted but never experience this before.
Robert
All your points noted John, as said it with the garage next week so hopefully get to the bottom of it.
I need to get an oil cooler I know, will sort today, recommend any?
The car was fine on the current set up running TMIC, only changes were FMIC, 4 bar map sensor, fuel pressure regulator.... Yes the radiator air flow is now restricted but never experience this before.
Robert
Trev
06 July 2018, 08:23 AM
#40
Spec is in my signature Rob. I use the Chevron TMIC and the combined water radiator and oil cooler. Bob Rawle fitted the same cooling package to his last project car.
Yes, still using the Black 2.1 JDM, i've been running this package for a very long time now, its well proven and works.
Yes, still using the Black 2.1 JDM, i've been running this package for a very long time now, its well proven and works.
Thanks
Robert
Robert
I personally wouldn't have went to see the Angel of the North mind. 
09 July 2018, 02:12 PM
#42
.No point telling you anything else about the trip as its been plastered all over faceweb!
10 July 2018, 08:57 AM
#45
It's issues like these that test the experience of your garage and just as, or more importantly your mapper
Live or RR? Bob Rawle (who has vast experience) will always say live road mapping is best, and I can see his point - 'real world' and put you hand out the window at ~70mph and that's got to be a shed more air than a RR cell - but you'll get plenty who say RR is best...
Hope you get things sorted soon
Live or RR? Bob Rawle (who has vast experience) will always say live road mapping is best, and I can see his point - 'real world' and put you hand out the window at ~70mph and that's got to be a shed more air than a RR cell - but you'll get plenty who say RR is best...
Hope you get things sorted soon
10 July 2018, 10:09 AM
#46
Scooby Regular
It's issues like these that test the experience of your garage and just as, or more importantly your mapper
Live or RR? Bob Rawle (who has vast experience) will always say live road mapping is best, and I can see his point - 'real world' and put you hand out the window at ~70mph and that's got to be a shed more air than a RR cell - but you'll get plenty who say RR is best...
Hope you get things sorted soon
Live or RR? Bob Rawle (who has vast experience) will always say live road mapping is best, and I can see his point - 'real world' and put you hand out the window at ~70mph and that's got to be a shed more air than a RR cell - but you'll get plenty who say RR is best...
Hope you get things sorted soon
As far as the road vs dyno map, both have advantages and disadvantages.
You can't legaly do the speeds needed to map a car on the road, not to mention the whole insurance side of things. Do you think your insurance will cover you if something happens while your cars being mapped? or do you think the mapper has insurance which will cover your driving? neither is the case.
A dyno can't 100% simulate true road conditions, it is however able to prove a more controlled environment and stable variables, such as wind, road grip
from the rollers etc
Dyno map then road finish is about the best of both.
10 July 2018, 10:31 AM
#47
Live mapping can be done on road or dyno, it reffers to the method, not the location. Live mapping is on the fly, rather than a pull, then tweak a pull then tweak.
As far as the road vs dyno map, both have advantages and disadvantages.
You can't legaly do the speeds needed to map a car on the road, not to mention the whole insurance side of things. Do you think your insurance will cover you if something happens while your cars being mapped? or do you think the mapper has insurance which will cover your driving? neither is the case.
A dyno can't 100% simulate true road conditions, it is however able to prove a more controlled environment and stable variables, such as wind, road grip
from the rollers etc
Dyno map then road finish is about the best of both.
As far as the road vs dyno map, both have advantages and disadvantages.
You can't legaly do the speeds needed to map a car on the road, not to mention the whole insurance side of things. Do you think your insurance will cover you if something happens while your cars being mapped? or do you think the mapper has insurance which will cover your driving? neither is the case.
A dyno can't 100% simulate true road conditions, it is however able to prove a more controlled environment and stable variables, such as wind, road grip
from the rollers etc
Dyno map then road finish is about the best of both.
But your 'Dyno map then road finish is about the best of both' does seem the best of both
10 July 2018, 10:43 AM
#48
Scooby Regular
unless you have an airfield and track day insurance lol
10 July 2018, 12:58 PM
#49
Cheers guys.
The car was dropped off yesterday, they will have it pretty much all week to get to the bottom of it and hopefully finish off the mapping etc. If it is indeed more serious than I would hope then I'll deal with that if/when the news comes in. Hopefully it'll get finished and in time for some fun at the end of July.
Robert.
The car was dropped off yesterday, they will have it pretty much all week to get to the bottom of it and hopefully finish off the mapping etc. If it is indeed more serious than I would hope then I'll deal with that if/when the news comes in. Hopefully it'll get finished and in time for some fun at the end of July.
Robert.
13 July 2018, 09:47 PM
#55
Scooby Regular
Live mapping can be done on road or dyno, it reffers to the method, not the location. Live mapping is on the fly, rather than a pull, then tweak a pull then tweak.
As far as the road vs dyno map, both have advantages and disadvantages.
You can't legaly do the speeds needed to map a car on the road, not to mention the whole insurance side of things. Do you think your insurance will cover you if something happens while your cars being mapped? or do you think the mapper has insurance which will cover your driving? neither is the case.
A dyno can't 100% simulate true road conditions, it is however able to prove a more controlled environment and stable variables, such as wind, road grip
from the rollers etc
Dyno map then road finish is about the best of both.
As far as the road vs dyno map, both have advantages and disadvantages.
You can't legaly do the speeds needed to map a car on the road, not to mention the whole insurance side of things. Do you think your insurance will cover you if something happens while your cars being mapped? or do you think the mapper has insurance which will cover your driving? neither is the case.
A dyno can't 100% simulate true road conditions, it is however able to prove a more controlled environment and stable variables, such as wind, road grip
from the rollers etc
Dyno map then road finish is about the best of both.
At those speeds insurance is the least of my worries.
13 July 2018, 09:53 PM
#56
Scooby Regular
http://www.afpsubaru.co.uk/rollingroad.htm
Road mapping is the best way to go about it.
Dynos are for pub talk & the scoobynet leaderboard
Road mapping is the best way to go about it.
Dynos are for pub talk & the scoobynet leaderboard
Last edited by SmurfyBhoy; 13 July 2018 at 09:54 PM.
13 July 2018, 11:45 PM
#57
Scooby Regular
13 July 2018, 11:46 PM
#58
Scooby Regular
If its headgasket then its a full rebuild inc bottom end, alot of the time bearings are damaged. Anyone claiming different is either crap or lacks enough experiance.
14 July 2018, 12:25 AM
#59
Scooby Regular
14 July 2018, 12:27 AM
#60
Scooby Regular