Engine Bay Heat Reduction - Question Time!
Hi all,
Given the current temps and the difficulty owners and mappers will be having at the moment getting cars to perform to their liking, I was thinking about cooling ideas... So my current set up is seeing temp rise very quickly, to the point road mapping had to be abandoned and reschedule for dyno mapping in a weeks time. In meantime I have ordered:
However I was thinking about other options to help, and I am after some advise please:
I'm all ears please if you can advise.... Picture of how it currently is.... Sorry no engine bay pictures on my phone.... https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.sco...d32b268b82.jpg |
Fit an oil cooler, problem solved. Or are you still on a tmic?
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your effective cooling is reduced because of the frontmount. A 71deg stat should help
A 19row oil cooler would help as it adds more oil to the system but where to put it, not in between FMIC and rad for sure. CAIK should be inner wing taking air directly from under headlight. I have to say with a top mount my problems are over cooling having done what I've mentioned. Trev |
Originally Posted by trevsjwood
(Post 12016771)
your effective cooling is reduced because of the frontmount. A 71deg stat should help
A 19row oil cooler would help as it adds more oil to the system but where to put it, not in between FMIC and rad for sure. CAIK should be inner wing taking air directly from under headlight. I have to say with a top mount my problems are over cooling having done what I've mentioned. Trev |
Rad efficiency is key in these conditions though.
Trev |
Look up Funk motorsport for their new turbo blankets and I’ve got their heat reflective tape, very happy with it.
I’m going to change my Perrin turbo blanket for a funk one soon Rich |
Originally Posted by trevsjwood
(Post 12016775)
Rad efficiency is key in these conditions though.
Trev |
It’s not like the weathers going to last for long so chill and enjoy it :)
book your car in next month for map when it’s sh!t weather again :thumb: Open induction under the engine bay will never be as cooled as the inner wing item so maybe that is a sensible option How many ponies you hoping to achieve on it rob? |
What actual temps were you seeing ?
Surely if car is too hot on road it will be worse on the dyno ? If it's really that bad add a water meth injection kit and that should be the end of it :) Map fans to come in earlier is an easy one |
Replying from my phone, so forgive me if I respond and miss some questions or comments.....
A little meat on the bones. Car was finished being built four weeks ago and mapped on TMIC which was fine. The mapping needed a little tweaking for one thing and another so decided that I might as well go fmic, 4 bar map sensor, FPR and push for closer to 500. The engine it's sweet, fully forged 2.5 built by pole position. The MD321v twin scroll is getting very hot and effectively boiling the water when the car used in anger for reasonable duration, so the car mapping was postponed until next week where it's going on the rollers where it can be kept an eye on. Oil cooler is on the cards and I forgot to put it on the list. Meth injection I'm unsure about, but meth in the tank does prove to work on my previous cars so that's a possibility. I think a good meth injection kit is around a grand?? Syvecs is also on the cards soon... I'm running a CAI kit, but not in the wing. Tempted to make a divider in the bay to hold out the temps, and I'm definitely going to send some ducting up. I'll be heat wrapping for sure, just don't know what is good stuff, seems eBay is flooded with it, but is it all bling with no sting? edit to add: water temps quite literally on the limit (hard shoulder situation), but safe of course with no damage. Fans coming early will also be done, spoken to the mapper this afternoon, the thermostat I've ordered is 60d I think, and the Millers cool apparently works well so should help. As said before, was at the limit of the TMIC and as I was doing Donington last weekend I went FMIC but couldn't get the car ready in time, but it still needs mapping for Elvington at the end of the month. The weather is set to stay so a late evening map next week prior to the rollers is on the cards. It needs to be ready in two weeks! Robert |
Not sure how the 321V would cope but can you not just leave it oil cooled and do away with water cooling the turbo ?
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has the turbo been checked?
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Hmmm.....something's not right here.
Road map will be better than a dyno map regards to cooling, that's for sure, unless it's a air con'ed dyno cell. The water boiling would ring alarm bells when giving beans tbh, more boost as in wot and then bumbling would suggest combustion is entering. (I've been in this exact situation and especially when giving hardcore driving I had same, regardless of weather, shouldn't make a difference) my car was absolutely fine apart from that, drove well, boosted well, no oil in water etc etc, didn't fail on sniff test either as it needed boost to create issue. I also went stat and cooling route etc, until later I got fed up with it and decided to pull engine to have a look, very slight hg fail on 1 head nearest to turbo. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news but that could well be issue as your symptoms were same as mine, my issue turned out to be the headstuds couldn't cope with 2 bar.....me thinks. Although certain tuners said they would be fine....cough cough.... I hope it's not and turns out something better, but at least you have a little insight knowledge if it does turn out that way. Also, nice stanced hatch |
the turbo isn't creating the heat surely? if water/oil are at the limit the turbo's not getting any decent cooling, the egt's are probably sky high as well ?
Trev |
Originally Posted by SmurfyBhoy
(Post 12016837)
Not sure how the 321V would cope but can you not just leave it oil cooled and do away with water cooling the turbo ?
Originally Posted by Tidgy
(Post 12016838)
has the turbo been checked?
Originally Posted by bustaMOVEs
(Post 12016842)
Hmmm.....something's not right here.
Road map will be better than a dyno map regards to cooling, that's for sure, unless it's a air con'ed dyno cell. The water boiling would ring alarm bells when giving beans tbh, more boost as in wot and then bumbling would suggest combustion is entering. (I've been in this exact situation and especially when giving hardcore driving I had same, regardless of weather, shouldn't make a difference) my car was absolutely fine apart from that, drove well, boosted well, no oil in water etc etc, didn't fail on sniff test either as it needed boost to create issue. I also went stat and cooling route etc, until later I got fed up with it and decided to pull engine to have a look, very slight hg fail on 1 head nearest to turbo. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news but that could well be issue as your symptoms were same as mine, my issue turned out to be the headstuds couldn't cope with 2 bar.....me thinks. Although certain tuners said they would be fine....cough cough.... I hope it's not and turns out something better, but at least you have a little insight knowledge if it does turn out that way. Also, nice stanced hatch Fingers crossed it's okay, if not as you say it's getting pulled out. https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.sco...8ce2070b7d.jpg |
Hopef All good then, but my motto is think of the worst and tackle the little bits as it's easier on the mind lol, well if it's not using any water then I think you maybe ok.
Tbf a good quality map should knock timing to suit hot and cold days if it's emplemented in as the ecu will do this, I assume your maffless? Seen as your going syvecs later then that will almost definitely be capable of pulling timing where it's needed. At what power is the turbo getting that hot it can't cope anymore? Turbo shouldn't be getting like that, unless it's at it's power limit, but that's around 500 or over. something is wrong imo, the sooner you check it out then it can be resolved. |
Ps, these are my favourite wheels for the hatch, but I'm not saying what they are as if/when I get a hatch I'll be finding some lol
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.sco...6d8a71718c.png https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.sco...698911db35.png |
Alloy rad is another one to add to the list if you don’t already have, more efficient and greater capacity.
Turbo blanket is a must IMHO. Wrapped headers and uppipe also. |
Originally Posted by bustaMOVEs
(Post 12016850)
Ps, these are my favourite wheels for the hatch, but I'm not saying what they are as if/when I get a hatch I'll be finding some lol
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.sco...6d8a71718c.png https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.sco...698911db35.png |
What wheels are they.
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Originally Posted by peter zippy reid
(Post 12016859)
you might want to take pics down then already found them:lol1:
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I wouldn't fit a 60 degree C start -your fuel consumption will be awful and engine never really warm up enough.
Doesn't serve much purpose and is worse for eninge IMHO. |
Originally Posted by bustaMOVEs
(Post 12016866)
Hahaha, finding it and knowing what wheels they are isint as easy lol
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Originally Posted by bustaMOVEs
(Post 12016849)
Hopef All good then, but my motto is think of the worst and tackle the little bits as it's easier on the mind lol, well if it's not using any water then I think you maybe ok.
Tbf a good quality map should knock timing to suit hot and cold days if it's emplemented in as the ecu will do this, I assume your maffless? Seen as your going syvecs later then that will almost definitely be capable of pulling timing where it's needed. At what power is the turbo getting that hot it can't cope anymore? Turbo shouldn't be getting like that, unless it's at it's power limit, but that's around 500 or over. something is wrong imo, the sooner you check it out then it can be resolved.
Originally Posted by bustaMOVEs
(Post 12016850)
Ps, these are my favourite wheels for the hatch, but I'm not saying what they are as if/when I get a hatch I'll be finding some lol
Originally Posted by matt-c
(Post 12016851)
Alloy rad is another one to add to the list if you don’t already have, more efficient and greater capacity.
Turbo blanket is a must IMHO. Wrapped headers and uppipe also. Will look for a turbo blanket. RCM headers and uppipe already heat wrapped. Robert |
Originally Posted by tjmatt
(Post 12016867)
I wouldn't fit a 60 degree C start -your fuel consumption will be awful and engine never really warm up enough.
Doesn't serve much purpose and is worse for eninge IMHO. Mishimoto MMTS-WRX-01 Racing Thermostat Subaru |
Originally Posted by Rob Day
(Post 12016848)
It's new mate.
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on my classic i have
entire exhaust system heat wrapped induction kit shield alloy taped everything removed bonnet rubbers on edges to allow air into engine bay bonnet raisers oil filter relocated with heat shield i was going to remove thebonnet side vent under covers but have read this makes for poor turblulence under bonnet but not sure whether this is accurate or not |
Originally Posted by Rob Day
(Post 12016870)
Sorry typo... 68d
Mishimoto MMTS-WRX-01 Racing Thermostat Subaru Fitting a low temperature thermostat is idiotic. All you are doing is guaranteeing the engine will run too cold at cruise speeds, which is bad for engine life, power delivery and fuel consumption. Your problem, assuming the head gaskets aren't cooked, is the capacity of the cooling system is too low for the load you are asking it to manage. All you do when you fit a low temperature thermostat is drop the start temperature point for a power pull, any sustained load use will not be helped by this, the vast majority of the time your engine will be running far too cold. There is a reason why the stock thermostat is at the temperature it is. Sort your problem out properly by improving the water cooling system, sticking a FMIC on the car will have made matters worse. My own car uses a bespoke water radiator with a combined oil cooler core, its a very neat and efficient system. |
On my car i have stock twin scroll exhaust headers and up pipe with stock heat shields, exhaust downpipe is wrapped.
No turbo heat shield, no turbo blanket, no ceramic coating, no extra vents, completely stock bodywork. CAIK into the front wing TMIC Radiator and oil cooler properly specced for the power level Standard thermostat Water fans are set as follows, Fan 1 on at 90 degrees C, off at 88 degrees C, Fan 2 on at 94 degrees C, off at 90 degrees. When the aircon is on, Fan 2 switches on when the AC pump switches on. Most of the time my car sits rock steady at 85 degrees and never goes over 90 degrees on the road when moving. Oil temperature sits at 85 degrees most of the year, touching 90 degrees at the moment. My oil cooler system is thermostat controlled, just as water its bad to run it too cool. If the turbo is boiling the water, it's probably running too hot or the cooling system is very under capacity , the only time i've needed to run without a water cooled core was on a WRC Escort Cosworth running very high EGT's due to a very aggressive ALS system. My Westfield Cosworth was also none water cooled, but that was because the radiator capacity was too small to cope with such a small frontal area to play with. Check your EGT's, you could be cooking the turbo, you don't have to be wringing its neck on boost to see this, too lean a mixture or incorrect ignition timing can elevate temps massively. That would also ramp up the water temps. Al the stuff you listed, waste of money Rob, fix the problem properly. |
Cheers Everyone.
All your points noted John, as said it with the garage next week so hopefully get to the bottom of it. I need to get an oil cooler I know, will sort today, recommend any? The car was fine on the current set up running TMIC, only changes were FMIC, 4 bar map sensor, fuel pressure regulator.... Yes the radiator air flow is now restricted but never experience this before. Robert |
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