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Given the current temps and the difficulty owners and mappers will be having at the moment getting cars to perform to their liking, I was thinking about cooling ideas...
So my current set up is seeing temp rise very quickly, to the point road mapping had to be abandoned and reschedule for dyno mapping in a weeks time.
In meantime I have ordered:
Miller Oil Extra Cool Additive
Low Temp Thermostat
And I have:
Bonnet Vents
Scoop void to where the TMIC once was
No under engine tray
However I was thinking about other options to help, and I am after some advise please:
Turbo blanket?
The best Reflective Tape on Intercooler Pipes?
Shroud the CAI away from the engine bay temps?
More ducting to the CAI and engine bay?
More Ventilation for heat to escape?
Manual Rad fan switch or programme to come in earlier?
Bonnet Risers?
Reverse Scoop?
100% waterless coolant?
I'm all ears please if you can advise....
Picture of how it currently is.... Sorry no engine bay pictures on my phone....
your effective cooling is reduced because of the frontmount. A 71deg stat should help
A 19row oil cooler would help as it adds more oil to the system but where to put it, not in between FMIC and rad for sure.
CAIK should be inner wing taking air directly from under headlight.
I have to say with a top mount my problems are over cooling having done what I've mentioned.
Trev
your effective cooling is reduced because of the frontmount. A 71deg stat should help
A 19row oil cooler would help as it adds more oil to the system but where to put it, not in between FMIC and rad for sure.
CAIK should be inner wing taking air directly from under headlight.
I have to say with a top mount my problems are over cooling having done what I've mentioned.
Trev
Depends hownits setup, mine was fitted between the front panels between the rad and front mount bur it stuck up above the front mount. Worked a treat at bring temps down.
Replying from my phone, so forgive me if I respond and miss some questions or comments.....
A little meat on the bones. Car was finished being built four weeks ago and mapped on TMIC which was fine. The mapping needed a little tweaking for one thing and another so decided that I might as well go fmic, 4 bar map sensor, FPR and push for closer to 500. The engine it's sweet, fully forged 2.5 built by pole position.
The MD321v twin scroll is getting very hot and effectively boiling the water when the car used in anger for reasonable duration, so the car mapping was postponed until next week where it's going on the rollers where it can be kept an eye on.
Oil cooler is on the cards and I forgot to put it on the list. Meth injection I'm unsure about, but meth in the tank does prove to work on my previous cars so that's a possibility. I think a good meth injection kit is around a grand??
Syvecs is also on the cards soon...
I'm running a CAI kit, but not in the wing. Tempted to make a divider in the bay to hold out the temps, and I'm definitely going to send some ducting up.
I'll be heat wrapping for sure, just don't know what is good stuff, seems eBay is flooded with it, but is it all bling with no sting?
edit to add: water temps quite literally on the limit (hard shoulder situation), but safe of course with no damage. Fans coming early will also be done, spoken to the mapper this afternoon, the thermostat I've ordered is 60d I think, and the Millers cool apparently works well so should help.
As said before, was at the limit of the TMIC and as I was doing Donington last weekend I went FMIC but couldn't get the car ready in time, but it still needs mapping for Elvington at the end of the month. The weather is set to stay so a late evening map next week prior to the rollers is on the cards. It needs to be ready in two weeks!
Hmmm.....something's not right here.
Road map will be better than a dyno map regards to cooling, that's for sure, unless it's a air con'ed dyno cell.
The water boiling would ring alarm bells when giving beans tbh, more boost as in wot and then bumbling would suggest combustion is entering. (I've been in this exact situation and especially when giving hardcore driving I had same, regardless of weather, shouldn't make a difference) my car was absolutely fine apart from that, drove well, boosted well, no oil in water etc etc, didn't fail on sniff test either as it needed boost to create issue.
I also went stat and cooling route etc, until later I got fed up with it and decided to pull engine to have a look, very slight hg fail on 1 head nearest to turbo.
Sorry to be the bearer of bad news but that could well be issue as your symptoms were same as mine, my issue turned out to be the headstuds couldn't cope with 2 bar.....me thinks. Although certain tuners said they would be fine....cough cough....
I hope it's not and turns out something better, but at least you have a little insight knowledge if it does turn out that way.
the turbo isn't creating the heat surely? if water/oil are at the limit the turbo's not getting any decent cooling, the egt's are probably sky high as well ?
Trev
Not sure how the 321V would cope but can you not just leave it oil cooled and do away with water cooling the turbo ?
not qualified to answer, but I have heard this done on many Turbo's.
Originally Posted by Tidgy
has the turbo been checked?
It's new mate.
Originally Posted by bustaMOVEs
Hmmm.....something's not right here.
Road map will be better than a dyno map regards to cooling, that's for sure, unless it's a air con'ed dyno cell.
The water boiling would ring alarm bells when giving beans tbh, more boost as in wot and then bumbling would suggest combustion is entering. (I've been in this exact situation and especially when giving hardcore driving I had same, regardless of weather, shouldn't make a difference) my car was absolutely fine apart from that, drove well, boosted well, no oil in water etc etc, didn't fail on sniff test either as it needed boost to create issue.
I also went stat and cooling route etc, until later I got fed up with it and decided to pull engine to have a look, very slight hg fail on 1 head nearest to turbo.
Sorry to be the bearer of bad news but that could well be issue as your symptoms were same as mine, my issue turned out to be the headstuds couldn't cope with 2 bar.....me thinks. Although certain tuners said they would be fine....cough cough....
I hope it's not and turns out something better, but at least you have a little insight knowledge if it does turn out that way.
Also, nice stanced hatch
Completely understand what you are saying, and I have considered that it might be a possibility, so getting it on the RR is the best way so we can watch the engine and auxiliaries at the same time. Thing is the car was only running 1.4 bar on the TMIC, and pushing on the FMIC didn't reach anywhere near 1.7 when it started to get very hot. It's not using any water, rad full, header full, expansion bottle sat in the same position since I've had it back tootling around including 300 mile round trip last weekend with the odd spirited driving. The mechanic is coming to the RR so at least I have support, knowledge, experience, he built it, and comfort In knowing if it's not right...... Where next..
Fingers crossed it's okay, if not as you say it's getting pulled out.
Hopef All good then, but my motto is think of the worst and tackle the little bits as it's easier on the mind lol, well if it's not using any water then I think you maybe ok.
Tbf a good quality map should knock timing to suit hot and cold days if it's emplemented in as the ecu will do this, I assume your maffless?
Seen as your going syvecs later then that will almost definitely be capable of pulling timing where it's needed.
At what power is the turbo getting that hot it can't cope anymore? Turbo shouldn't be getting like that, unless it's at it's power limit, but that's around 500 or over. something is wrong imo, the sooner you check it out then it can be resolved.
Hopef All good then, but my motto is think of the worst and tackle the little bits as it's easier on the mind lol, well if it's not using any water then I think you maybe ok.
Tbf a good quality map should knock timing to suit hot and cold days if it's emplemented in as the ecu will do this, I assume your maffless?
Seen as your going syvecs later then that will almost definitely be capable of pulling timing where it's needed.
At what power is the turbo getting that hot it can't cope anymore? Turbo shouldn't be getting like that, unless it's at it's power limit, but that's around 500 or over. something is wrong imo, the sooner you check it out then it can be resolved.
can't run maffless on fly by wire without stand alone ECU hence syvecs in the future. Turbo good for 500 on petrol, can't imagine it was getting close at sub 1.7 bar. Mechanic has the car all next week so fingers crossed..... He's bloody good at what he does so I'm in safe hands.
Originally Posted by bustaMOVEs
Ps, these are my favourite wheels for the hatch, but I'm not saying what they are as if/when I get a hatch I'll be finding some lol
Not sure what they are, I'm on XXR at the moment but have another spare set in mind if they will fit at 9" wide...
Originally Posted by matt-c
Alloy rad is another one to add to the list if you don’t already have, more efficient and greater capacity.
Turbo blanket is a must IMHO.
Wrapped headers and uppipe also.
Will see what happens next week mate and take it from there. It's raping my wallet so far....
entire exhaust system heat wrapped
induction kit shield
alloy taped everything
removed bonnet rubbers on edges to allow air into engine bay
bonnet raisers
oil filter relocated with heat shield
i was going to remove thebonnet side vent under covers but have read this makes for poor turblulence under bonnet but not sure whether this is accurate or not
All you are doing is guaranteeing the engine will run too cold at cruise speeds, which is bad for engine life, power delivery and fuel consumption.
Your problem, assuming the head gaskets aren't cooked, is the capacity of the cooling system is too low for the load you are asking it to manage.
All you do when you fit a low temperature thermostat is drop the start temperature point for a power pull, any sustained load use will not be helped by this, the vast majority of the time your engine will be running far too cold. There is a reason why the stock thermostat is at the temperature it is.
Sort your problem out properly by improving the water cooling system, sticking a FMIC on the car will have made matters worse.
My own car uses a bespoke water radiator with a combined oil cooler core, its a very neat and efficient system.
On my car i have stock twin scroll exhaust headers and up pipe with stock heat shields, exhaust downpipe is wrapped.
No turbo heat shield, no turbo blanket, no ceramic coating, no extra vents, completely stock bodywork.
CAIK into the front wing
TMIC
Radiator and oil cooler properly specced for the power level
Standard thermostat
Water fans are set as follows, Fan 1 on at 90 degrees C, off at 88 degrees C, Fan 2 on at 94 degrees C, off at 90 degrees. When the aircon is on, Fan 2 switches on when the AC pump switches on. Most of the time my car sits rock steady at 85 degrees and never goes over 90 degrees on the road when moving.
Oil temperature sits at 85 degrees most of the year, touching 90 degrees at the moment. My oil cooler system is thermostat controlled, just as water its bad to run it too cool.
If the turbo is boiling the water, it's probably running too hot or the cooling system is very under capacity , the only time i've needed to run without a water cooled core was on a WRC Escort Cosworth running very high EGT's due to a very aggressive ALS system. My Westfield Cosworth was also none water cooled, but that was because the radiator capacity was too small to cope with such a small frontal area to play with.
Check your EGT's, you could be cooking the turbo, you don't have to be wringing its neck on boost to see this, too lean a mixture or incorrect ignition timing can elevate temps massively. That would also ramp up the water temps.
Al the stuff you listed, waste of money Rob, fix the problem properly.
All your points noted John, as said it with the garage next week so hopefully get to the bottom of it.
I need to get an oil cooler I know, will sort today, recommend any?
The car was fine on the current set up running TMIC, only changes were FMIC, 4 bar map sensor, fuel pressure regulator.... Yes the radiator air flow is now restricted but never experience this before.
04 July 2018, 10:41 AM
Engine Bay Heat Reduction - Question Time!
