A friend of a friend bought a second hand Leaf today. 63 plate with 82k on the clock. He paid £6k for it. He bought it from someone 90 miles from his house. The car was supplied fully charged but was out of juice after 60 miles. Imagine the range in the winter when the heaters and lights are on.

 

and there in is another one of their problems. The whole electric car thing really is a con

 

Agreed.

I read a comment on another forum, it was this

 

Electric vehicles are the political solution to global warming! How can the government be seen to be doing something about global warming whilst also adding economic value. The reality is that EV's save very little CO2, if you really want to save vehicle related CO2 emissions, drive your old car less, but that has no economical value, so is not the advice from Government! Anyone who spouts on about saving the planet by driving an EV, clearly has no understanding of the real environmental problems!

 

2013 Leaf had a 24kW battery with an epa range of 75miles. This could be reduced by high speed or using heating system.

If acquaintance had done their research properly then it should of come as no surprise the range.

However if he bought it for a short commute vehicle realising the range, he got a great deal. MPGe is 115 so exceptional compared to an ICE car. Better still if using in London with zero ULEZ charges.

Remember 95% of all car journeys are 35 miles per day. Seems like this bloke has chosen the correct car for the job.

 

Our 30000 miles in our Leaf has cost ~£600 to charge

ICE @ 35 mpg would of cost £4700 in fuel cost

Already £4000 ahead in savings in 18 months

We do around 80-100miles per day and have no need to worry about range for the usage of 50 mile outward journeys.

 

appart from how pish poor for the environment they are, a small petrol car would be a far better option cost and for the environment

 

A myth purported by anti EV brigade. Plenty of research to counter the biased claim

Some early research overstated the manufacturing emissions and overstated the charging emissions by using coal fired stations where as coal is being used less and less for power generation

It was calculated that after only 2.4 years of owning a 100kw battery powered car would significantly reduce co2 thereafter. Most EVs will be around 60-75kw so payback in co2 will be even faster maybe just over a year.

Then the tailpipe pollution is either eliminated by taking energy from renewable sources or localised around one of the remaining coal fired stations.

Overall EVs are massively better for town and cities for the vast majority

 

speaking as someone coming from a emchanical and electrical background i can tell you its not lol

the mine to grave on them is woeful

 

All transport has a massive impact, but I rather have clean air whenever I visit a town or city

EV is going to be huge, followed by something like hydrogen catalyst vehicle. Who knows what after that ?

 

I think you'll find the overwhelming research shows only a small improvement in CO2 emissions over the life of the vehicle when you compare buying a new EV to buying a new comparatively sized ICE vehicle. If you charge with more renewable energy, then the figure will be slightly better, but it's the manufacturing and scrappage costs that contribute the most. That is only looking at the CO2 figures, the additional environmental damage from Lithium extraction and nickel mining also need to be taken into account, so the balance is environmentally probably slightly in favour of the ICE vehicle. What is certainly a better option is just keeping your old vehicle for longer rather than buying a new car!

 

Out of sight out of mind eh, as long as its not on your doorstep no problem.

 

Oil exploration is much harder, now that all the easy to get at oil has been sourced. The cost per barrel is much higher. Then the chance of environmental damage due to accident or by product of retrieving crude oil.

There are many upsides to EV transport. You will be driving an EV or surrounded by them in just a few years.

If in the meantime if you come up with an alternative energy source lets us know or better still, develop it and sell it to us.

 

the problem isn't with the shell, its with the batteries, their construction and their end of life. technology may well make them better in the future, however right now and the short term future they are abysmal, yes it might be great as you drive around town, but when they are made and when they are got rid of they are awfull. but as said out of sight out of mind.

 

It seems you're happy to keep polluting the atmosphere, your own health and everyone else by using an ICE. I would possibly accept your argument if you said you had drastically reduced your vehicle use to help reduce polluting your environment

Driving an ICE is the prime example of out of sight, pumping pollutants whilst driving

 

Doubt be surrounded by them in just few years

Predicted be half vehicles on the road in- 20 years time

By which time other stuff will be here

 

I think the uptake to EV will be faster than that. ICE are going to be squeezed out of towns and cities due to pollution emissions. Labour-Again with a aspirational target of 2030 for CO2

 

If you're driving in the city, mainly on congested roads, then I'm all for small, light weight EVs such as the Smart, purely on health grounds. Anyone who thinks they are saving the planet is simply kidding themselves and denying the reality of environmental damage from EV production.

I live in the countryside, so most of my driving is not in traffic and not in a built up area. I try to cycle to work as much as possible and I'm building a carbon neutral house 3km from my workplace, so will no longer be using the car at all for the work commute once I move. I've drastically reduced the amount I fly and travel in general. Wherever possible I only buy local produce and I don't buy convenience foods due to the amount of packaging. My plastic waste is about a third of what it was 5 years ago!

I look at the environmental issues realistically and consider the whole picture and not just believe all the hype that is being made about EVs. There are lots of changes you can make in your life to reduce your environmental impact. I don't see EV's as being a reasonable solution. Give my a Hydrogen fuel cell car and I'll happily swap today. I'm all for an alternative to ICE vehicles, I just don't accept EVs are good alternative at the moment.

 

It's all very well saying that EVs are hardly better than ICE, but we have to start somewhere, it's not practical to jump from no EV to the ultimate solution! It's not as if ICE cars were environmentally marvellous machines in the early part of the 20th Century........

EVs will improve, but there has to be a take up to generate the investment to improve them, it's the same for all things. Hydrogen may well be the answer, but the lack of models shows that at the moment it is prohibitively expensive (admittedly just in contrast to EV, possibly) or there are serious technical issues.

 

There must be over a hundred Tesla model 3 cars being collected today. Group demonstrations due to sheer volume of buyers

Our demo is in 45 mins. We are already familiar, but always useful for little update on features

 

Apart from the fact I can see and smell the exhaust and its local to me

I'm under no illusion that all cars are polluting, some are worse than others. But people with electric cars claim of they are better fro the environment, when that is simply false when you look at the full picture.

 

Difference is 100 years of development that is still going on. Emissions are dropping all the time as engines and fuels develop.

 

The only thing missing with Hydrogen cars is the supply! In Japan and California where legislation has been introduced to create the Hydrogen supply network, there is a much larger uptake of Hydrogen cars than EVs. Recent advances in Hydrogen production and storage technologies means that there is much greater efficiency meaning they can compete with EVs on CO2 per mile driver but completely destroy them when it comes to manufacturing and scrapping costs.

I don't disagree we need to find an alternative to ICE, especially when it comes to trucks and buses, but EVs are really not the golden ticket they are being made out to be. Investment in a hydrogen fueling network should be the priority.

 

Indeed, so in 100 years, imagine how much EV (in whatever form) will have evolved? Also, oil will run out, there is the potential to essentially generate unlimited electricity with virtually no pollution. Burning oil is, well, somewhat less clean

I am a complete petrol head, but I am also a pragmatist, EV is the future, it needs to be adopted not only because it is cleaner, but it has the potential be much, much cheaper and limitless.

 

I agree 100%. Ev are just not ready for mass use yet.

 

Another purchaser today asked how many Tesla 3 were being handed over to customers today in London, it was 139 cars.

Just driven it home, its true what Tesla users are saying, it has moved on in hardware, performance and refinement. The car is better than my S model.

It also has a tow bar, so yay we can have bikes on the back when we go off to Europe

 

Its rubbish, internal combustion design has reached the end of the road. All the design changes have been in adding filtration, exhaust gas recirculation trying to reduce emissions.

To meet ever stringent pollution limits virtually the whole of the of the car industry conspired to cheat the emissions tests across the world.
When these vehicles were corrected, they were crap at acceleration and mpg figures dropped.

The time has come to adopt EV to kill off ICE. Eventually another energy source will be developed but until then EV is the direction cars are heading.

Fuel cost savings alone make running an EV attractive.

 

So we should get rid of the current better option in the hope the next thing will work in 10 years time? That's very very stupid and irresponsible.

EV is not ready to be adopted, simple as. Its inefficient, pollutive and expensive

 

Id have to disagree with not being ready, its the biggest growth sector of auto industry. Vehicles sold to all parts of the UK by Tesla, Huge reservations for Hyundai Kona EV, Kia Nero, Nissan Leaf. VW has been taken by surprise by the huge pre order for their latest EVs. I wouldn't be surprised by exponential growth of EV in the next few years. Just like a snowball rolling downhill, Android gathering market share.

 

As has been said ,easiest politacal solution - ban ice cars

i just hope early adopters aernt just nimbies / destroying the planet with battery production