General election 8th june
Scooby Senior
Joined: Jan 2003
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From: Friedrichshafen Germany/Preston UK
http://www.thelondoneconomic.com/tle...nwashed/18/08/
What's really interesting is the fact that most people when they only look at policies would vote Lib Dem:
blind policy based voting results (whereby voters tick the policies they agree with, without knowing which party they were voting for overall) ...
..Had all votes been cast on policy pledges alone, studies suggest the Green Party and Liberal Democrats would have both had a turn at power by now.
..Had all votes been cast on policy pledges alone, studies suggest the Green Party and Liberal Democrats would have both had a turn at power by now.
I also find it sad, that the press continually play the election as either Conservative or Labour and just don't mention Lib Dem as if they don't exist. The UK is not a 2 party system, but the press give virtually no coverage to anyone but Tory and Labour!
When was the last time you saw a Green party representative on Question Time? I can't recall ever seeing one, yet the Greens have more MP's than UKIP, yet UKIP are on all the time!
Scooby Senior
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,638
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From: Friedrichshafen Germany/Preston UK
Related to the above....
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-39965205
...you scratch my back and I'll scratch yours!
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-39965205
...you scratch my back and I'll scratch yours!
Scooby Regular
Joined: Oct 2009
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From: In a house
This is a really interesting article about how your voting preferences are being influences (controlled) by the right wing press!
http://www.thelondoneconomic.com/tle...nwashed/18/08/
What's really interesting is the fact that most people when they only look at policies would vote Lib Dem:
As for Corbyn, I really don't agree with much of his lefty policies, but I do respect the integrity of the guy and the fact he is truly representing the labour cause and socialist values!
I also find it sad, that the press continually play the election as either Conservative or Labour and just don't mention Lib Dem as if they don't exist. The UK is not a 2 party system, but the press give virtually no coverage to anyone but Tory and Labour!
When was the last time you saw a Green party representative on Question Time? I can't recall ever seeing one, yet the Greens have more MP's than UKIP, yet UKIP are on all the time!
http://www.thelondoneconomic.com/tle...nwashed/18/08/
What's really interesting is the fact that most people when they only look at policies would vote Lib Dem:
As for Corbyn, I really don't agree with much of his lefty policies, but I do respect the integrity of the guy and the fact he is truly representing the labour cause and socialist values!
I also find it sad, that the press continually play the election as either Conservative or Labour and just don't mention Lib Dem as if they don't exist. The UK is not a 2 party system, but the press give virtually no coverage to anyone but Tory and Labour!
When was the last time you saw a Green party representative on Question Time? I can't recall ever seeing one, yet the Greens have more MP's than UKIP, yet UKIP are on all the time!
What is that meant to prove??
If I launched a party that promised no taxes, free beer and hand jobs on the NHS I'm sure 100% of the male population would tick agree.
That doesn't mean those men would actually vote for me come election day though does it?
Last edited by Dingdongler; May 18, 2017 at 07:58 PM.
Scooby Senior
Joined: Jan 2003
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From: Friedrichshafen Germany/Preston UK
People don't vote for the parties that offer the policies they actually really care about because the mass media manipulate the public to vote for whoever they are backing, through misinformation or selective covering of politcal news.
The Sun even boasts about the fact that the Sun has backed the GE winner every time since their famous "its the Sun that won it!" headline.
Scooby Regular
Joined: Apr 2013
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From: Berks
So the Tories are promising (again) a vote on repealing the law banning fox hunting. Remember kids this is the party who will bring you a strong and stable Brexit whilst looking after the working man... 
There are plenty of 'non toffs who hunt', and many people are employed in a support role too.
I see that the Tory manifesto is uncosted, and very vague about what is a policy, and what is an aim. Very wishy-washy about immigration levels for example, and no assessment of the actual cost to the economy of reducing it.
Scooby Regular
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From: riding the crest of a wave ...
Scooby Regular
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From: Weston Super Mare, Somerset.
If Labour could persuade David Miliband to take over then I think they could just swing it. I would be delighted if May got her comeuppance big time as she is on a course to wreck our future.
I support much of what Corbyn says, aside from re-nationalisation, but his economic arguments are way out - he just won't have enough money!
But of course the above won't happen and we'll end up with that bitch gloating. UKIP can go f**k but perhaps Lib Dems could help?
David
I support much of what Corbyn says, aside from re-nationalisation, but his economic arguments are way out - he just won't have enough money!
But of course the above won't happen and we'll end up with that bitch gloating. UKIP can go f**k but perhaps Lib Dems could help?
David
Scooby Regular
Joined: Sep 2003
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From: West Wales
As much as I've grown to not dislike Corbyn I could no more vote Labour than cut my arm off. We haven't finished paying for the last Labour government.
I'm voting Tory because I believe they actually don't want a hard brexit and it's just for votes.
Tories are the party of business and business will want the status quo - free trade with no customs barrier for a start.
They'll go in hard and come out fairly soft. The UK having been well and truly f*cked
I'm voting Tory because I believe they actually don't want a hard brexit and it's just for votes.
Tories are the party of business and business will want the status quo - free trade with no customs barrier for a start.
They'll go in hard and come out fairly soft. The UK having been well and truly f*cked
Scooby Regular
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From: Type 25. Build No.34
Is it me, or are the Tories running a utterly terrible campaign? An election they couldn't lose, is now looking 'losable'.
If they don't pull their fingers out we're going to have a Corbyn lead coalition!
If they don't pull their fingers out we're going to have a Corbyn lead coalition!
Scooby Regular
Joined: Apr 2013
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From: Berks
Pretty much, I honesty couldn't tell you a single thing the Tories stand for other than "strong and stable leadership". That and their belief that if they don't get in we'll end up with the... COALITION OF CHAOS!!! Dum dum dummmmmmmm.
Scooby Regular
Joined: Jul 2008
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From: K
In much the same way the 1992 one was - Major won, against all the predictions / sentiment (remember the Kinnock Sheffield rally).
and limped from disaster to disaster as it hit economic and societal headwinds - and then we had 1997.
and in any case it does not matter in the context of our Brexit deal – as this will form the framework for the UK that will be in play for next 50 odd years and define the next 2 generations.
Whoever is in No10 has very little control over this as the Brexit deal in reality is at the total behest to the EU.
So that you are not under any illusion about this I would suggest reading the following articles from the FT on the EU negotiating position - a position that was in place before the referendum, during the referendum and documented within a week of the result - it has not changed
"Brexit by timetable: the evolution of the EU’s position Part 1,2 & 3"
The actual articles are paywalled - but by a Quirk of the internet if you put the article title in Google and click the link you get access
quoted from part 3
"The story so far. Part one showed that the key principles of the EU’s negotiating position were in place within days of the UK referendum result, even before Theresa May became prime minister and months before her Birmingham speech. Part two set out how Brussels developed that position into almost final form before 2016 ended.
Both parts have emphasised how the EU has also mastered the procedural side of Article 50 so that, when notification was finally made, the scope and content of any exit deal were, from the EU’s perspective, already determined."
and concludes with
"On the basis of published documents, the UK does not have a happy prospect for the exit agreement. The EU knows what it wants, what its negotiating strengths are, how to achieve what it wants, and that “no deal” is not a real option. This is perhaps why the prime minister’s move after the draft guidelines were circulated was to call a general election to secure five years in power.
But when the election is over, the guidelines will still be there. From the EU’s perspective, the UK general election is irrelevant. The great historian AJP Taylor once described “war by timetable”.
The EU is preparing for Brexit by timetable, and there is little obvious that the UK can do to avoid it."
The EU has also done its homework on what a "no deal" would look like to the EU in excruciating detail.
What have we done - nothing apart for a paper thin white paper that has so little detail it is embarrassing and May's speech in January that was simply laughed at it was so delusional
oh and Boris Johnson insulting European politicians with his crass idiocy
Just consider 1 tiny aspect of a no deal – there are literally 100 more, our removal from the EU Open Skies agreement will mean our Airlines have no legal basis to land at any EU airport – full stop
Last edited by hodgy0_2; Jun 1, 2017 at 11:09 AM.
Scooby Regular
Joined: Jun 2005
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From: Type 25. Build No.34
tbh honest - this looks like an election that would be good to lose
In much the same way the 1992 one was - Major won, against all the predictions / sentiment (remember the Kinnock Sheffield rally).
and limped from disaster to disaster as it hit economic and societal headwinds - and then we had 1997.
and in any case it does not matter in the context of our Brexit deal – as this will form the framework for the UK that will be in play for next 50 odd years and define the next 2 generations.
Whoever is in No10 has very little control over this as the Brexit deal in reality is at the total behest to the EU.
So that you are not under any illusion about this I would suggest reading the following articles from the FT on the EU negotiating position - a position that was in place before the referendum, during the referendum and documented within a week of the result - it has not changed
"Brexit by timetable: the evolution of the EU’s position Part 1,2 & 3"
The actual articles are paywalled - but by a Quirk of the internet if you put the article title in Google and click the link you get access
quoted from part 3
"The story so far. Part one showed that the key principles of the EU’s negotiating position were in place within days of the UK referendum result, even before Theresa May became prime minister and months before her Birmingham speech. Part two set out how Brussels developed that position into almost final form before 2016 ended.
Both parts have emphasised how the EU has also mastered the procedural side of Article 50 so that, when notification was finally made, the scope and content of any exit deal were, from the EU’s perspective, already determined."
and concludes with
"On the basis of published documents, the UK does not have a happy prospect for the exit agreement. The EU knows what it wants, what its negotiating strengths are, how to achieve what it wants, and that “no deal” is not a real option. This is perhaps why the prime minister’s move after the draft guidelines were circulated was to call a general election to secure five years in power.
But when the election is over, the guidelines will still be there. From the EU’s perspective, the UK general election is irrelevant. The great historian AJP Taylor once described “war by timetable”.
The EU is preparing for Brexit by timetable, and there is little obvious that the UK can do to avoid it."
The EU has also done its homework on what a "no deal" would look like to the EU in excruciating detail.
What have we done - nothing apart for a paper thin white paper that has so little detail it is embarrassing and May's speech in January that was simply laughed at it was so delusional
oh and Boris Johnson insulting European politicians with his crass idiocy
Just consider 1 tiny aspect of a no deal – there are literally 100 more, our removal from the EU Open Skies agreement will mean our Airlines have no legal basis to land at any EU airport – full stop
In much the same way the 1992 one was - Major won, against all the predictions / sentiment (remember the Kinnock Sheffield rally).
and limped from disaster to disaster as it hit economic and societal headwinds - and then we had 1997.
and in any case it does not matter in the context of our Brexit deal – as this will form the framework for the UK that will be in play for next 50 odd years and define the next 2 generations.
Whoever is in No10 has very little control over this as the Brexit deal in reality is at the total behest to the EU.
So that you are not under any illusion about this I would suggest reading the following articles from the FT on the EU negotiating position - a position that was in place before the referendum, during the referendum and documented within a week of the result - it has not changed
"Brexit by timetable: the evolution of the EU’s position Part 1,2 & 3"
The actual articles are paywalled - but by a Quirk of the internet if you put the article title in Google and click the link you get access
quoted from part 3
"The story so far. Part one showed that the key principles of the EU’s negotiating position were in place within days of the UK referendum result, even before Theresa May became prime minister and months before her Birmingham speech. Part two set out how Brussels developed that position into almost final form before 2016 ended.
Both parts have emphasised how the EU has also mastered the procedural side of Article 50 so that, when notification was finally made, the scope and content of any exit deal were, from the EU’s perspective, already determined."
and concludes with
"On the basis of published documents, the UK does not have a happy prospect for the exit agreement. The EU knows what it wants, what its negotiating strengths are, how to achieve what it wants, and that “no deal” is not a real option. This is perhaps why the prime minister’s move after the draft guidelines were circulated was to call a general election to secure five years in power.
But when the election is over, the guidelines will still be there. From the EU’s perspective, the UK general election is irrelevant. The great historian AJP Taylor once described “war by timetable”.
The EU is preparing for Brexit by timetable, and there is little obvious that the UK can do to avoid it."
The EU has also done its homework on what a "no deal" would look like to the EU in excruciating detail.
What have we done - nothing apart for a paper thin white paper that has so little detail it is embarrassing and May's speech in January that was simply laughed at it was so delusional
oh and Boris Johnson insulting European politicians with his crass idiocy
Just consider 1 tiny aspect of a no deal – there are literally 100 more, our removal from the EU Open Skies agreement will mean our Airlines have no legal basis to land at any EU airport – full stop
Our merry band of negotiators are walking straight into a trap (of our own making).
This whole folly will soon be laid wide open to the British public - the whole 'I don't like foreigners' reason for leaving the EU, will be replaced with 'why didn't they tell us that'.
I suspect whatever agreement we end up with will mean years and years of transitionary arrangements, that will end up being expensive and inefficient
That said the 'open skies' agreement is a bit of a red herring. That will just be sorted, as it's in nobodies interest for that to fall apart.
Scooby Regular
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 15,634
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From: K
as the FT article so dramatically points out in excruciating detail - the EU knows it is bullsh1t too
Scooby Regular
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 15,634
Likes: 22
From: K
I am pretty disengaged with it all tbh - as I point out in the above post, it is a side show really
but it certainly won't ever be Tory - although I don't actually care if they get in, as I do quite well under a Tory government
but it certainly won't ever be Tory - although I don't actually care if they get in, as I do quite well under a Tory government
Scooby Regular
Joined: Jun 2005
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From: Home
Fair enough. I am frankly staggered that any working class women or man would vote for the Conservative Party over Labour.