ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

Again it's suggestive to say that a influential number of swing voters were 'swung'. What % of that % of swing voters were influenced? Same with the EU referendum, whilst it was a small margin,of what % of that small % was influenced?

This is not to say it didn't cement and harden a decision. How many pro-leave voters were already EU sceptics before the campaigns had even started? We will never really know, nor should we try to find out as its detracting from the core issue:

The core issue being media outlets and platforms (that includes print, TV and social/internet) peddling opinion and suggestion as biased fact. As you say, it is a arms race. The traditional media formats are quick to vilify Facebook, whilst conveniently ignoring that they themselves have been doing this long before the internet even existed!

andy97

iTrader: (1)

just look at the BBC

hodgy0_2

well yes - in fact you can trace the roots back to tobacco/cancer denial in the 60 and 70's

The tobacco companies knew by the early 60's the health effects of smoking/tobacco - but by a concentrated tactic of denial/fake news/fake studies/fake experts - all emanating from the same small cabal of "think tanks" managed to drag it out well into 2000's

Martin2005

The BBC is regulated, and has a charter to keep. So not really a very good comparison.

We have to rely on self regulation for a lot of social media outlets.

Martin2005

Yes and now it worse thanks to the highly targetted nature of the disinformation.

dpb

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.s...026.html%3famp


"French Navy"

hodgy0_2

and in a delicious irony the hard right - climate denying, cancer tobacco denying Farage supporting Austrian Freedom Party - AFP have just overturned a smoking ban in Austrian restaurants and bars

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-43057842

"The move has horrified Austria's medical establishment. Dr Manfred Neuberger, professor emeritus at the Medical University of Vienna, says it is "a public health disaster".


"The decision is irresponsible. It was a victory for the tobacco industry. The new government made Austria into the ashtray of Europe."

stevebt

iTrader: (8)

Do you think we will ever find out what the deal they are arranging with the EU or do you think it will be kept from us to stem a public outcry?

BMWhere?

We will probably be drip fed some headline deals, but much of it will not be broadcast! Although nothing is fixed until the final deal is agreed.
I'm sure the UK will not publish anything, but the EU will certainly make the full text of any agreement available.

SouthWalesSam

iTrader: (1)

You can't tell 27 people a secret and have it still be kept secret.


And, please, we don't need yet another baseless conspiracy theory.

Martin2005

Yep.

The final deal has to be scrutinised by parliament and voted on, so we'll know exactly what's involved.

The Trooper 1815

iTrader: (31)

Remoan seems to be losing momentum.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-43774200

neil-h

How'd you work that out?

That quote from Boris at the end is good for a chuckle though, I wouldn't call 3.8% of the vote a "substantial majority" personally

andy97

iTrader: (1)

At first there was going to be a million people on the streets, didn't happen, then next it was 200,000, didn't happen, next protest got a few thousand. This one allegedly 1500 people. all these protests are in London, which was by far the only major area that voted remain . Leaving the EU is going to happen. Londoners have accepted the decision, only a handful day dreaming political nobody's still harping on about it.

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

1500 people showing up in a city with a 8.8+ million population does pale into insignificance; More people went to church!

BMWhere?

So Scotland and Northern Ireland are not major areas then?

The Trooper 1815

iTrader: (31)

Because only 1200 turned up. Hardly a huge endorsement.

neil-h

I didn’t get the impression from the article that it was meant to be a big gathering.

Besides, is what they’re proposing so unreasonable? It’d be far more informed than Brexit was.

dpb

just imagine the chaos that is GOING to ensue when home office attempts to cope with eu nationals , after the mess/ descrimination windrush victims

They are allready stretched to the limit

BMWhere?

This Windrush scandal just really sums up the hateful anti-immigrant rhetoric that has been building in the UK over the last years.

Add to that, whats going on about Cambridge Analytica and the Leave.EU campaign and the revelations the Leave.EU used **** style propaganda to persuade the Brexiteers by further pushing the anti-immigration hatred!

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-43793546

Thats rights Brexiteers - Aaron Banks and Nigel Farage and thier Leave.EU organisation with help from those nice guys at Cambridge Analytica brainwashed you with **** propoganda techniques to vote to leave the EU, and just like the Germans in the 1930's you fell for it!

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

Pray tell, who is responsible for the viral 'Project Fear' campaigns?

Both sides are highly guilty of propagandist content and manipulation via media and social media (which still continues).

Shame on you all for lapping up every headline and shared feed like the sheeple you all are!

neil-h

Except project fear was a notion dreamt up by the Leave bunch as a way to shout down anyone who tried to suggest that Brexit wouldn't be all sunshine and rainbows.

dpb

Where was the homophobic project fear aspect in the remain campaign ?

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

The phrase 'project fear' was dreamt up in the same way as the word 'Brexit'.

Where did you first see these words used?

markjmd

iTrader: (11)

What a truly bizarre distinction to argue about. Are you really trying to say that both terms are equally loaded?

hodgy0_2

precisely

Linksfahrer

Certainly not sunshine and rainbows for me , Its the people who live in each country who pay a high price for this.


I have to leave Germany by Dec2020. Mother will not be able to stay (90) & partial blindness really needs English language care in UK won't be entitled to any here after 2020. That means clear her flat sell my house, Ask my new fiancée to live in UK and leave some of my family here ( sons 17 and 19 aged from first wife ).


Yeah I'm really thrilled.

^Qwerty^

Latest statement I can find:

Certificates issued before the withdrawal date by the competent authorities of the United Kingdom on the basis of the provisions of the Basic Regulation and its implementing rules will no longer be valid as of the withdrawal date in the EU. This concerns in particular:
 Certificates of airworthiness, restricted certificates of airworthiness, permits to fly, approvals of organisations responsible for the maintenance of products, parts and appliances, approvals for organisations responsible for the manufacture of products, parts and appliances, approvals for maintenance training organisations, and certificates for personnel responsible for the release of a product, part or appliance after maintenance, issued pursuant to Article 5 of the Basic Regulation;
 Pilot licences, pilot medical certificates, certificates for pilot training organisations, certificates for aero-medical centres, certificates for flight simulation training devices, certificates for persons responsible for providing flight training, flight simulation training or assessing pilots' skill, and certificates for aero medical examiners, issued pursuant to Article 7 of the Basic Regulation;
 Certificates for air operators and attestations for the cabin crew, issued pursuant to Article 8 of the Basic Regulation;
 Certificates for aerodromes, certificates for ATM/ANS providers, licences and medical certificates for air traffic controllers, certificates for air traffic controller training organisations, certificates for aero medical centres and aero medical examiners responsible for air traffic controllers, certificates for persons
etc

So after reading that, unless an agreement is reached, UK airspace will become inaccessible and that includes overflights. Can't see that being able to happen, too much money at stake for all parties.

BMWhere?

Well, that should solve the immigration issue
Holiday in Blackpool anyone?

hodgy0_2

yes, it is quite serious

there are other "Notice to Stakeholders" the EU have produced, over 50 in total and they cover just about every area of economic activity - from road haulage to banking to the chemicals industry

https://ec.europa.eu/info/brexit/brexit-preparedness_en

they simply set out the legal consequences of the UK becoming a "third" country next year

the one on road transport is pretty revealing

https://ec.europa.eu/transport/sites...-transport.pdf

"Thus, as of the withdrawal date, drivers who are United Kingdom nationals and do not constitute long-term residents in the Union, within the meaning of Council Directive 2003/109/EC, and who work for a Union haulier holding a Community licence require a driver attestation. In accordance with Article 5(2) of Regulation (EC) No 1072/20097, this driver attestation shall be issued by the competent authorities of the Member State of establishment of the haulier holding a Community licence for each driver who is neither a national nor a long-term resident within the meaning of Council Directive 2003/109/EC8 whom that haulier lawfully employs or who is put at his disposal.

o Certificate of professional competence for drivers: In accordance with Directive 2003/59/EC9, drivers in the Union of a vehicle intended for the carriage of goods or for the carriage of passengers need to hold a certificate of professional competence certifying the initial qualification or periodic training and issued by competent authorities of an EU Member State or by an approved training centre in an EU Member State. Drivers who are nationals of an EU Member State obtain their initial qualification in the EU Member State of their normal residence while drivers who are nationals of third countries do this in the EU Member State which issued a work permit to them. As of the withdrawal date, certificates of professional competence issued by the United Kingdom or by an approved training centre in the United Kingdom will no longer be valid in the EU-27."


I suspect on Air Traffic / Aircraft some sort of deal will be done - but I suspect the UK shambolic performance over the last 2 years means that Airbus will move investment back to the EU

Nevertheless the laughable fact is we are negotiating to get what we already have!!!!!!


in fact technically a lot worse, as whatever deal we do with the EU we lose the deals the EU has with over 50 countries - and contrary to what the bulls1tter Liam Fox says these countries will not simply allows us to cut 'n' paste the EU agreements - and simply carry on