So Brexit seems to be a good thing then.

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Dec 8, 2016 | 10:16 AM

#691

andy97

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From: Api 500+bhp MD321T @91dB Probably SN's longest owner of an Impreza Turbo

Quote:

Originally Posted by dpb

What amazes me is the cast iron faith that leaving Euro will automatically end recession!

It will certainly help, their currency could drop in comparison, making them more competitive,

Dec 8, 2016 | 10:19 AM

#692

Steve001

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From: Chester (Tumbleweed City!)

Quote:

Originally Posted by andy97

The 89 MPs who voted AGAINST the UK leaving the EU

CONSERVATIVE - 1

Ken Clarke (Rushcliffe)

LABOUR - 23

Rushanara Ali (Bethnal Green and Bow)

Graham Allen (Nottingham North)

Ben Bradshaw (Exeter)

Ann Coffey (Stockport)

Neil Coyle (Bermondsey and Old Southwark)

Stella Creasy (Walthamstow)

Geraint Davies (Swansea West)

Jim Dowd (Lewisham West and Penge)

Louise Ellman (Liverpool Riverside)

Chris Evans (Islwyn)

Paul Farrelly (Newcastle-under-Lyme)

Mike Gapes (Ilford South)

Helen Hayes (Dulwich and West Norwood)

Meg Hillier (Hackney South and Shoreditch)

Peter Kyle (Hove)

David Lammy (Tottenham)

Chris Leslie (Nottingham East)

Ian Murray (Edinburgh South)

Barry Sheerman (Huddersfield)

Tulip Siddiq (Hampstead and Kilburn)

Angela Smith (Penistone and Stocksbridge)

Catherine West (Hornsey and Wood Green)

Daniel Zeichner (Cambridge)

LIBERAL DEMOCRAT - 5

Alistair Carmichael (Orkney and Shetland)

Nick Clegg (Sheffield Hallam)

Tim Farron (Westmorland and Lonsdale)

Sarah Olney (Richmond Park)

Mark Williams (Ceredigion)

GREEN PARTY - 1

Caroline Lucas (Brighton Pavilion)

SDLP - 3

Mark Durkam (Foyle)

Alasdair McDonnell (Belfast South)

Margaret Ritchie (South Down)

INDEPENDENT - 2

Natalie McGarry (Glasgow East)

Michelle Thomson (Edinburgh West)

PLAID CYMRU - 3

Jonathan Edwards (Carmarthen East and Dinefwr)

Liz Saville Roberts (Dwyfor Meirionnydd)

Hywel Williams (Arfon)

SNP - 51

Tasmina Ahmed-Sheikh (Ochil and South Perthshire)

Hannah Bardell (Livingston)

Mhairi Black (Paisley and Renfrewshire South)

Ian Blackford (Ross, Skye and Lochaber)

Kirsty Blackman (Aberdeen North)

Philip Boswell (Coatbridge, Chryston and Bellshill)

Deidre Brock (Edinburgh North and Leith)

Alan Brown (Kilmarnock and Loudoun)

Lisa Cameron (East Kilbridge, Strathaven and Lesmahagow)

Douglas Chapman (Dunfermline and West Fife)

Joanna Cherry (Edinburgh South West)

Ronnie Cowan (Inverclyde)

Angela Crawley (Lanark and Hamilton East)

Martyn Day (Linlithgow and East Falkirk)

Martin Docherty-Hughes (West Dunbartonshire)

Stuart Blair Donaldson (West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine)

Marion Fellows (Motherwell and Wishaw)

Margaret Ferrier (Rutherglen and Hamilton West)

Stephen Gethins (North East Fife)

Patricia Gibson (North Ayrshire and Arran)

Patrick Grady (Glasgow North)

Peter Grant (Glenrothes)

Neil Gray (Airdrie and Shotts)

Drew Hendry (Inverness, Nairn, Badenoch and Strathspey)

Stewart Hosie (Dundee East)

George Kerevan (East Lothian)

Calum Kerr (Berwickshire, Roxburgh and Selkirk)

Chris Law (Dundee West)

Angus Brendan MacNeil (Na h-Eileanan an Iar)

John McNally (Falkirk)

Callum McCaig (Aberdeen South)

Stuart McDonald (Cumbernauld, Kilsyth and Kirkintilloch East)

Anne McLaughlin (Glasgow North East)

Carol Monaghan (Glasgow North West)

Paul Monaghan (Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross)

Roger Mullin (Kirkcaldy and Cowdenbeath)

Gavin Newlands (Paisley and Renfrewshire North)

John Nicolson (East Dunbartonshire)

Brendan O'Hara (Argyll and Bute)

Kirsten Oswald (East Renfrewshire)

Steven Paterson (Stirling)

Angus Robertson (Moray)

Alex Salmond (Gordon)

Tommy Sheppard (Edinburgh East)

Chris Stephens (Glasgow South West)

Alison Thewliss (Glasgow Central)

Mike Weir (Angus)

Eilidh Whitford (Banff and Buchan)

Corri Wilson (Ayr, Carrick and Cumnock)

Pete Wishart (Perth and North Perthshire)

Those English MP's which are out of London area and not in a strong remain voting area better watch out for their seats come 2020 election

Interesting list but not surprising

quite a few have asked for this elsewhere, you don't mind if I copy it

Even though this vote took place and was passed with a massive majority the supreme Court case will continue WTF? More money being sucked from the tax pot by the Lawers

'Lawyers for Gina Miller, the Remain campaigner who brought the case, said tonight's vote was nothing to do with the case.

They argued it had no revelance because it wasn't binding on the government - and there should be a full Act of Parliament instead.'

NOTHING TO DO WITH THE CASE!!!? The case IS about parliament voting on article 50, didn’t they just have that last night?
The whole thing should be abandoned now.

Dec 8, 2016 | 11:04 AM

#693

Geezer

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From: North Wales

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve001

NOTHING TO DO WITH THE CASE!!!? The case IS about parliament voting on article 50, didn’t they just have that last night?
The whole thing should be abandoned now.

Yes, Brexit should be abandoned now

Dec 8, 2016 | 12:06 PM

#694

andy97

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From: Api 500+bhp MD321T @91dB Probably SN's longest owner of an Impreza Turbo

Turkey is going to be mightily peeved that Ukraine has got visa free travel

Dec 8, 2016 | 12:51 PM

#695

David Lock

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From: Weston Super Mare, Somerset.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Geezer

Yes, Brexit should be abandoned now

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

D

(Should never have started)

Dec 8, 2016 | 01:10 PM

#696

dpb

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From: riding the crest of a wave ...

Quote:

Originally Posted by andy97

What you going to do ,hunt them down in the streets ?

Dec 8, 2016 | 01:11 PM

#697

Steve001

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From: Chester (Tumbleweed City!)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Geezer

Yes, Brexit should be abandoned now

Hell no

Dec 8, 2016 | 01:14 PM

#698

neil-h

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From: Berks

Quote:

Originally Posted by dpb

What you going to do ,hunt them down in the streets ?

I'd imagine by this point the baying mob is a third of the way through that list

Dec 8, 2016 | 01:35 PM

#699

andy97

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From: Api 500+bhp MD321T @91dB Probably SN's longest owner of an Impreza Turbo

Quote:

Originally Posted by dpb

What you going to do ,hunt them down in the streets ?

Read the last line

Dec 8, 2016 | 02:17 PM

#700

Geezer

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From: North Wales

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve001

Hell no

Joking apart, this one also has Wales and Scotland making their case as to whether Brexit can be triggered without their consent.

I doubt they will win that argument.

Dec 8, 2016 | 02:42 PM

#701

dpb

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From: riding the crest of a wave ...

Hasn't Nigel left to earn off trump, along with half the rest his cabinet

The ones not had some kind of nervous break down anyway

Dec 8, 2016 | 05:49 PM

#702

hodgy0_2

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From: K

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve001

Interesting list but not surprising

quite a few have asked for this elsewhere, you don't mind if I copy it

Even though this vote took place and was passed with a massive majority the supreme Court case will continue WTF? More money being sucked from the tax pot by the Lawers

Last nights vote was about agreeing a timetable for brexit

The court case is simply a matter of constitutional law - namely whether the government can use the royal prerogative to enact a law that changes the right of UK citizens

Without recourse to parliament

We have a Parliamentary democracy, the key word is parliamentary

Not a dictatorship of government, or the tyranny of the masses

It really is that simple - that's why the government will loose (and they know they will loose)

Last edited by hodgy0_2; Dec 8, 2016 at 05:51 PM.

Dec 8, 2016 | 06:18 PM

#703

dpb

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From: riding the crest of a wave ...

lose

Dec 8, 2016 | 07:57 PM

#704

hodgy0_2

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From: K

Yeah, and that too

Dec 9, 2016 | 08:13 AM

#705

Geezer

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From: North Wales

Quote:

Originally Posted by hodgy0_2

Not a dictatorship of government, or the tyranny of the masses

We do seem to be slipping in to a tyranny of the minority though.

All the surveys indicate that the vast majority of people wish to remain at least with full access to the single market, and also the majority do not wish to leave the EU, it's simply a matter of immigration.

A very hard core minority seem hell bent on exiting the EU no matter the cost.

Dec 9, 2016 | 11:32 AM

#706

dpb

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From: riding the crest of a wave ...

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.bbc...roid-orange-gb

Not a kipper in sight

Tory least worst scenario

Dec 9, 2016 | 12:46 PM

#707

alcazar

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From: Rl'yeh

Quote:

Originally Posted by Geezer

The surveys? Muahahahahahahahahaha..

These would be the same surveys that predicted Brexit wouldn't happen? The same ones that predicted that Clinton would walk it?

Come on.........they talk to a thousand people in the affluent SE and say it's indicative? My shiney @rse it's indicative.

Dec 9, 2016 | 01:25 PM

#708

Geezer

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From: North Wales

Quote:

Originally Posted by alcazar

If a survey gave a narrow margin, I would agree, but circa 90%?

Of all the people I know who voted for Leave, only one or two don't like the EU, they just don't like the immigration. Sadly for them, the two go hand in hand.

Still, when we Brexit and immigration still doesn't fall, they'll look a bit silly, won't they?

Dec 9, 2016 | 04:17 PM

#709

alcazar

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From: Rl'yeh

As for surveys, if you ask in London, you'll get a dramatically different result to asking in Scunthorpe, Boston, etc.

But yes, we will look silly...except that it WILL fall.

Dec 9, 2016 | 05:54 PM

#710

dpb

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From: riding the crest of a wave ...

Solidly Tory constituency

Dec 9, 2016 | 05:55 PM

#711

Sad Weevil

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From: Bristol/West Wales

Quote:

Originally Posted by alcazar

But yes, we will look silly...except that it WILL fall.

And when immigration falls, it will mean the end of deliberate NHS underfunding, there will be plenty of affordable housing for those who need it, plenty of room in your school of choice, higher wages for everyone, and squadrons of flying pigs in the sky.

Dec 9, 2016 | 06:01 PM

#712

dpb

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From: riding the crest of a wave ...

All those food processing /packaging jobs ( 3rd of the workforce) immediately filled by indigenous ..

Dec 9, 2016 | 08:16 PM

#713

Geezer

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From: North Wales

Quote:

Originally Posted by alcazar

As for surveys, if you ask in London, you'll get a dramatically different result to asking in Scunthorpe, Boston, etc.

But yes, we will look silly...except that it WILL fall.

Yes, which is why surveys are done across a representative section of the population.

The polls about Brexit were close, the polls about Clinton were close (and she did indeed win the most votes, just not the way she needed). But these polls are not. You cannot claim they are suddenly just a poll of 'suverners' because you don't like what they say. The referendum was always going to be close, and the polls reflected that, albeit slightly in flavour of Remain.

Immigration may well fall a bit, but seeing as we cannot control non EU immigration, which is fully under our control, why do you think it will be any different post Brexit? Please enlighten me, I'm dying to hear it.

Dec 9, 2016 | 08:28 PM

#714

hodgy0_2

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From: K

Quote:

Originally Posted by Geezer

Yes, which is why surveys are done across a representative section of the population.

it.

what survey's Geezer

totally anecdotal but I don't see a massive change of heart from the leavers

obviously this is probably skewed by the vocal-ness of hard core leavers in maintaining their fantasy

Last edited by hodgy0_2; Dec 9, 2016 at 08:29 PM.

Dec 9, 2016 | 08:47 PM

#715

Geezer

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From: North Wales

Quote:

Originally Posted by hodgy0_2

They were reported in the BBC last week (no doubt Alcazar will cry lefties!). It' not a massive change of heart, they still want what they voted for, but they do not want to lose our access to the single market. I don't believe they ever did, just wanted less immigration (which whilst I can understand, I don't necessarily agree)

I can't find the BBC article, but here is another source that is very similar.

Dec 9, 2016 | 09:35 PM

#716

hodgy0_2

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From: K

Quote:

Originally Posted by Geezer

yeah, what I would call the "confused middle"

they bought into some of the Brexit nonsense (take back control etc etc) but also realise that a divorce from the EEA and Customs union would be "problematic" for the UK economy

the true believers will never be convinced, like climate change deniers (often one and the same) show them graphs of ever increasing global temps and ever disappearing sea ice and they will argue the opposite

denial is a cruel mistress

Last edited by hodgy0_2; Dec 9, 2016 at 09:38 PM.

Dec 10, 2016 | 03:38 AM

#717

dpb

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From: riding the crest of a wave ...

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.ind...roid-orange-gb

There must be some kind price to pay. ?!

Dec 10, 2016 | 11:48 AM

#718

alcazar

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From: Rl'yeh

Quote:

Originally Posted by Geezer

1. How do YOU know how, or where the surveys were done?

2.A representative of the population? That'd need the whole country to respond.

3. Both of the surveys mentioned were wrong. End of.

4. Please don't be facile: you know as well as I do that the MAIN problem is the UNCONTROLLED immigration from the EU which we cannot control in any way, (thanks Lying Labour). THAT is why it's hit new levels since we voted to leave...they think they need to get in now.