So Brexit seems to be a good thing then.
12 July 2018, 09:06 AM
#2971
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So you Must presumably be referring to damage to business not gearing up to wto rules in time and lack of building materials sourced for irish boarder wall
https://www.ft.com/content/1ce27838-...a-d9c0a5c8d5c9
https://www.ft.com/content/1ce27838-...a-d9c0a5c8d5c9
Last edited by dpb; 12 July 2018 at 09:10 AM.
12 July 2018, 09:29 AM
#2972
Scooby Regular
a group working together in an agreed way is always strong than a group arguing amongst itself.
if you dont understand that very basic reality then theres no hope
if you dont understand that very basic reality then theres no hope
12 July 2018, 09:39 AM
#2974
Scooby Regular
soft border between NI and SI, hard border at channel. Two different lane types for travel check in to mainland, one for UK citizens who just need to show ID, other side for those who need passport/visa etc depending on where they are coming from.
problem solved. It's not rocket science if you put ego's aside.
problem solved. It's not rocket science if you put ego's aside.
12 July 2018, 10:18 AM
#2976
Scooby Regular
12 July 2018, 10:36 AM
#2979
Scooby Regular
So now ego's are coming into play, we want to be seperate, but we dont want a wall,,,,,,,
it's the easiest solution to the problem, but lets have ego's stopping it eh
it's the easiest solution to the problem, but lets have ego's stopping it eh
12 July 2018, 11:09 AM
#2980
12 July 2018, 12:05 PM
#2981
Scooby Regular
If you have a hard wall in Ireland then you stand the risk of certain members of the north and south reverting to old ways. Personally, if they want a hard wall then the British government should give back NI to the Republic of Ireland - problem solved for the British government
the solution i posted is feasable and workable.
12 July 2018, 12:20 PM
#2982
Scooby Senior
The only feasible solution that would work is a hard border in the Irish sea, but the DUP won't back that. Giving back NI would also be a neat solution, its always been a negative drain on the UK economy anyway, but the DUP won't back that either.
A hard border between NI and RI would also not be politically acceptable and risks a breakdown of the Irish peace deal and a return to the past troubles - although most Brexiteers are anyway looking for a return to the wonderful rose tinted past where everything was better!
Then there is the whole issue of the industry Just-In-Time supply chain relying on zero border delays. A fast lane for British passport holders only helps the tourists and they are the bottom of the list of problems with a hard border. There is anyway a passport control for tourists, so not much will really change there!
A hard border between NI and RI would also not be politically acceptable and risks a breakdown of the Irish peace deal and a return to the past troubles - although most Brexiteers are anyway looking for a return to the wonderful rose tinted past where everything was better!
Then there is the whole issue of the industry Just-In-Time supply chain relying on zero border delays. A fast lane for British passport holders only helps the tourists and they are the bottom of the list of problems with a hard border. There is anyway a passport control for tourists, so not much will really change there!
Last edited by BMWhere?; 12 July 2018 at 12:22 PM.
12 July 2018, 12:26 PM
#2983
Scooby Senior
Its nothing to do with Ego's, it has everything to do with customs laws. If you have a customs union then goods can flow freely across the border, if you don't have a customs union, then the flow of goods needs to be controlled otherwise you open an uncontrolled back door where goods can be illegally smuggled.
12 July 2018, 12:27 PM
#2984
Scooby Regular
The only feasible solution that would work is a hard border in the Irish sea, but the DUP won't back that. Giving back NI would also be a neat solution, its always been a negative drain on the UK economy anyway, but the DUP won't back that either.
A hard border between NI and RI would also not be politically acceptable and risks a breakdown of the Irish peace deal and a return to the past troubles - although most Brexiteers are anyway looking for a return to the wonderful rose tinted past where everything was better!
Then there is the whole issue of the industry Just-In-Time supply chain relying on zero border delays. A fast lane for British passport holders only helps the tourists and they are the bottom of the list of problems with a hard border. There is anyway a passport control for tourists, so not much will really change there!
A hard border between NI and RI would also not be politically acceptable and risks a breakdown of the Irish peace deal and a return to the past troubles - although most Brexiteers are anyway looking for a return to the wonderful rose tinted past where everything was better!
Then there is the whole issue of the industry Just-In-Time supply chain relying on zero border delays. A fast lane for British passport holders only helps the tourists and they are the bottom of the list of problems with a hard border. There is anyway a passport control for tourists, so not much will really change there!
This is the whole issue with people arguing against brexit, all they ever see is the fear thats put into them. Is it going to make things a bit more of a pain, yes, but it isn't going to implode like its being made out to by those with an agenda.
12 July 2018, 12:30 PM
#2985
Scooby Regular
Its nothing to do with Ego's, it has everything to do with customs laws. If you have a customs union then goods can flow freely across the border, if you don't have a customs union, then the flow of goods needs to be controlled otherwise you open an uncontrolled back door where goods can be illegally smuggled.
12 July 2018, 12:43 PM
#2986
Scooby Senior
We're not talking about a few criminals smuggling a van full of cigarettes and whisky here. We're talking about industrial scale smuggling.
Say the UK increases steel tariffs to protect the steel industry (unlikely given it was the UK that blocked the EU increasing steel tariffs, but still) and the EU doesn't. Importing steel into the UK from China or the US would become more expensive. Without border controls, then the Chinese or US companies could just import the steel to Ireland with the lower EU tariffs, then ship it uncontrolled across the Irish border and further into the UK mainland, thus bypassing the UKs tariffs and hurting the British steel industry, rendering the whole point of taking back control pretty pointless. The same is true for anything where the UK lowers tariffs in relation to the EU, the UK becomes a back-door to the EU which then undermines their tariff system. The result is lose-lose for both the UK and the EU.
The only option is customs alignment rather than customs union, but in reality that is just a customs union in all but name and you haven't taken back any control as the EU as the bigger partner would still be dictating the tariffs to the UK.
Say the UK increases steel tariffs to protect the steel industry (unlikely given it was the UK that blocked the EU increasing steel tariffs, but still) and the EU doesn't. Importing steel into the UK from China or the US would become more expensive. Without border controls, then the Chinese or US companies could just import the steel to Ireland with the lower EU tariffs, then ship it uncontrolled across the Irish border and further into the UK mainland, thus bypassing the UKs tariffs and hurting the British steel industry, rendering the whole point of taking back control pretty pointless. The same is true for anything where the UK lowers tariffs in relation to the EU, the UK becomes a back-door to the EU which then undermines their tariff system. The result is lose-lose for both the UK and the EU.
The only option is customs alignment rather than customs union, but in reality that is just a customs union in all but name and you haven't taken back any control as the EU as the bigger partner would still be dictating the tariffs to the UK.
12 July 2018, 01:26 PM
#2988
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12 July 2018, 01:38 PM
#2989
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12 July 2018, 02:37 PM
#2992
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12 July 2018, 02:42 PM
#2993
Scooby Regular
News just in, 'After England lose to Croatia at the world cup, Remainers say FIFA should replay the match until they get the result they're happy with'
pmsl, just came up on FB and couldn't help but larf even if it is true
pmsl, just came up on FB and couldn't help but larf even if it is true
12 July 2018, 03:04 PM
#2995
Scooby Senior
12 July 2018, 03:25 PM
#2996
And therein lies the issue with Brexit. There are certain realities, which they seem to ignore, no matter what sort of Brexit is delivered. And, no Brexiteer ever seems to want to come up with a solution, they want remainers to do it!
12 July 2018, 03:45 PM
#2997
Scooby Senior
Its the cake and eat it mentality that was used during the whole leave campaign.
They come up with over simplistic solutions to each issue which don't factor the glaring conflicts to their over simplistic solutions to any other issue.
Its very easy to belittle the 'remoaners' coming up with complicated problems to the Brexiteers simplistic solutions without actually presenting any realistic solutions and dismissing it all with don't worry, it will all be OK, someone will sort it out and everything will be better nonsense!
All you get is nonsensical statements like "Brexit means Brexit" and "No deal is better than a bad deal". Here's one for you brexiteers: "Staying in the EU is better than no deal!"
12 July 2018, 03:49 PM
#2998
Scooby Senior
We're not talking about a few criminals smuggling a van full of cigarettes and whisky here. We're talking about industrial scale smuggling.
Say the UK increases steel tariffs to protect the steel industry (unlikely given it was the UK that blocked the EU increasing steel tariffs, but still) and the EU doesn't. Importing steel into the UK from China or the US would become more expensive. Without border controls, then the Chinese or US companies could just import the steel to Ireland with the lower EU tariffs, then ship it uncontrolled across the Irish border and further into the UK mainland, thus bypassing the UKs tariffs and hurting the British steel industry, rendering the whole point of taking back control pretty pointless. The same is true for anything where the UK lowers tariffs in relation to the EU, the UK becomes a back-door to the EU which then undermines their tariff system. The result is lose-lose for both the UK and the EU.
The only option is customs alignment rather than customs union, but in reality that is just a customs union in all but name and you haven't taken back any control as the EU as the bigger partner would still be dictating the tariffs to the UK.
Say the UK increases steel tariffs to protect the steel industry (unlikely given it was the UK that blocked the EU increasing steel tariffs, but still) and the EU doesn't. Importing steel into the UK from China or the US would become more expensive. Without border controls, then the Chinese or US companies could just import the steel to Ireland with the lower EU tariffs, then ship it uncontrolled across the Irish border and further into the UK mainland, thus bypassing the UKs tariffs and hurting the British steel industry, rendering the whole point of taking back control pretty pointless. The same is true for anything where the UK lowers tariffs in relation to the EU, the UK becomes a back-door to the EU which then undermines their tariff system. The result is lose-lose for both the UK and the EU.
The only option is customs alignment rather than customs union, but in reality that is just a customs union in all but name and you haven't taken back any control as the EU as the bigger partner would still be dictating the tariffs to the UK.
12 July 2018, 03:53 PM
#2999
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So I'll take your lack of response to the industrial smuggling issue without implementing any border checks as your acceptance that your over simplified Irish border solution doesn't work in reality and you accept the Brexit is far more complicated than you ever thought it would be!
I'm just waiting for 'it's simple, let's just make Ireland leave the EU too'
12 July 2018, 04:18 PM
#3000
o god please dont try that just in time crap, we get food experts from all over the world, they have to go through or they spoil and waste, not to mention other sectors that trade all over the world on that very basis. So the idea its going to be a problem it total crap and nothing but fear mongering.
This is the whole issue with people arguing against brexit, all they ever see is the fear thats put into them. Is it going to make things a bit more of a pain, yes, but it isn't going to implode like its being made out to by those with an agenda.
This is the whole issue with people arguing against brexit, all they ever see is the fear thats put into them. Is it going to make things a bit more of a pain, yes, but it isn't going to implode like its being made out to by those with an agenda.
Do you think this is scaremongering?
https://www.birminghampost.co.uk/bus...-hard-14870403
I am not pro EU but a country needs to look at what's best for its economy and not politicians caring for their voters.
I really don't have a problem with a united states of Europe. This notion that we're somehow different or better because we just happened to be born on one side or another of some imaginary line is really quite pathetic. It makes no difference to me where my taxes are set or who creates the laws as long as its all done democratically.
In reality, a united Europe would be a devolved federal system similar to the current devolved UK states, the German federal system or the USA. Some taxes and laws will be set centrally and others will be set locally.
In reality, a united Europe would be a devolved federal system similar to the current devolved UK states, the German federal system or the USA. Some taxes and laws will be set centrally and others will be set locally.
First of all the € is a currency borrowed from the ECB.
Have a read through this in case you are not already aware: http://www.eu-facts.org/en/backgroun...e_lecture.html
Last edited by fpan; 12 July 2018 at 04:35 PM.