Notices
Non Scooby Related Anything Non-Scooby related

So Brexit seems to be a good thing then.

Old 12 July 2018, 09:06 AM
  #2971  
dpb
Scooby Regular
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: riding the crest of a wave ...
Posts: 46,042
Default

So you Must presumably be referring to damage to business not gearing up to wto rules in time and lack of building materials sourced for irish boarder wall



https://www.ft.com/content/1ce27838-...a-d9c0a5c8d5c9

Last edited by dpb; 12 July 2018 at 09:10 AM.
dpb is offline  
Old 12 July 2018, 09:29 AM
  #2972  
Tidgy
Scooby Regular
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Notts
Posts: 22,242
Default

a group working together in an agreed way is always strong than a group arguing amongst itself.

if you dont understand that very basic reality then theres no hope
Tidgy is offline  
Old 12 July 2018, 09:36 AM
  #2973  
dpb
Scooby Regular
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: riding the crest of a wave ...
Posts: 46,042
Default

What would you do about the border Tidgy ?
dpb is offline  
Old 12 July 2018, 09:39 AM
  #2974  
Tidgy
Scooby Regular
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Notts
Posts: 22,242
Default

Originally Posted by dpb View Post
What would you do about the border Tidgy ?
soft border between NI and SI, hard border at channel. Two different lane types for travel check in to mainland, one for UK citizens who just need to show ID, other side for those who need passport/visa etc depending on where they are coming from.

problem solved. It's not rocket science if you put ego's aside.
Tidgy is offline  
Old 12 July 2018, 10:01 AM
  #2975  
dpb
Scooby Regular
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: riding the crest of a wave ...
Posts: 46,042
Default

My goodness, and you lot are deriding a good part of the electorate and most of parliament for seeking a softer / more reasonable exit
dpb is offline  
Old 12 July 2018, 10:18 AM
  #2976  
Tidgy
Scooby Regular
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Notts
Posts: 22,242
Default

Originally Posted by dpb View Post
My goodness, and you lot are deriding a good part of the electorate and most of parliament for seeking a softer / more reasonable exit
so why wouldnt that work?
Tidgy is offline  
Old 12 July 2018, 10:23 AM
  #2977  
BMWhere?
Scooby Senior
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Friedrichshafen Germany/Preston UK
Posts: 2,110
Default

Originally Posted by Tidgy View Post
so why wouldnt that work?
Because Ireland has a soft border with the rest of the EU!
BMWhere? is offline  
Old 12 July 2018, 10:31 AM
  #2978  
Martin2005
Scooby Regular
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Type 25. Build No.34
Posts: 8,222
Default

Originally Posted by BMWhere? View Post
Because Ireland has a soft border with the rest of the EU!

Not to mention the DUP
Martin2005 is offline  
Old 12 July 2018, 10:36 AM
  #2979  
Tidgy
Scooby Regular
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Notts
Posts: 22,242
Default

So now ego's are coming into play, we want to be seperate, but we dont want a wall,,,,,,,

it's the easiest solution to the problem, but lets have ego's stopping it eh
Tidgy is offline  
Old 12 July 2018, 11:09 AM
  #2980  
mrtheedge2u2
Scooby Regular
 
mrtheedge2u2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,982
Default

Originally Posted by Tidgy View Post
So now ego's are coming into play, we want to be seperate, but we dont want a wall,,,,,,,

it's the easiest solution to the problem, but lets have ego's stopping it eh
If you have a hard wall in Ireland then you stand the risk of certain members of the north and south reverting to old ways. Personally, if they want a hard wall then the British government should give back NI to the Republic of Ireland - problem solved for the British government
mrtheedge2u2 is online now  
Old 12 July 2018, 12:05 PM
  #2981  
Tidgy
Scooby Regular
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Notts
Posts: 22,242
Default

Originally Posted by mrtheedge2u2 View Post
If you have a hard wall in Ireland then you stand the risk of certain members of the north and south reverting to old ways. Personally, if they want a hard wall then the British government should give back NI to the Republic of Ireland - problem solved for the British government
I think thats a rather more contentious issue, although there is def ego's involved in that.

the solution i posted is feasable and workable.
Tidgy is offline  
Old 12 July 2018, 12:20 PM
  #2982  
BMWhere?
Scooby Senior
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Friedrichshafen Germany/Preston UK
Posts: 2,110
Default

The only feasible solution that would work is a hard border in the Irish sea, but the DUP won't back that. Giving back NI would also be a neat solution, its always been a negative drain on the UK economy anyway, but the DUP won't back that either.

A hard border between NI and RI would also not be politically acceptable and risks a breakdown of the Irish peace deal and a return to the past troubles - although most Brexiteers are anyway looking for a return to the wonderful rose tinted past where everything was better!


Then there is the whole issue of the industry Just-In-Time supply chain relying on zero border delays. A fast lane for British passport holders only helps the tourists and they are the bottom of the list of problems with a hard border. There is anyway a passport control for tourists, so not much will really change there!

Last edited by BMWhere?; 12 July 2018 at 12:22 PM.
BMWhere? is offline  
Old 12 July 2018, 12:26 PM
  #2983  
BMWhere?
Scooby Senior
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Friedrichshafen Germany/Preston UK
Posts: 2,110
Default

Originally Posted by Tidgy View Post
So now ego's are coming into play, we want to be seperate, but we dont want a wall,,,,,,,

it's the easiest solution to the problem, but lets have ego's stopping it eh
Its nothing to do with Ego's, it has everything to do with customs laws. If you have a customs union then goods can flow freely across the border, if you don't have a customs union, then the flow of goods needs to be controlled otherwise you open an uncontrolled back door where goods can be illegally smuggled.
BMWhere? is offline  
Old 12 July 2018, 12:27 PM
  #2984  
Tidgy
Scooby Regular
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Notts
Posts: 22,242
Default

Originally Posted by BMWhere? View Post
The only feasible solution that would work is a hard border in the Irish sea, but the DUP won't back that. Giving back NI would also be a neat solution, its always been a negative drain on the UK economy anyway, but the DUP won't back that either.

A hard border between NI and RI would also not be politically acceptable and risks a breakdown of the Irish peace deal and a return to the past troubles - although most Brexiteers are anyway looking for a return to the wonderful rose tinted past where everything was better!


Then there is the whole issue of the industry Just-In-Time supply chain relying on zero border delays. A fast lane for British passport holders only helps the tourists and they are the bottom of the list of problems with a hard border. There is anyway a passport control for tourists, so not much will really change there!
o god please dont try that just in time crap, we get food experts from all over the world, they have to go through or they spoil and waste, not to mention other sectors that trade all over the world on that very basis. So the idea its going to be a problem it total crap and nothing but fear mongering.

This is the whole issue with people arguing against brexit, all they ever see is the fear thats put into them. Is it going to make things a bit more of a pain, yes, but it isn't going to implode like its being made out to by those with an agenda.
Tidgy is offline  
Old 12 July 2018, 12:30 PM
  #2985  
Tidgy
Scooby Regular
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Notts
Posts: 22,242
Default

Originally Posted by BMWhere? View Post
Its nothing to do with Ego's, it has everything to do with customs laws. If you have a customs union then goods can flow freely across the border, if you don't have a customs union, then the flow of goods needs to be controlled otherwise you open an uncontrolled back door where goods can be illegally smuggled.
do you honestly thing a hard border will stop smuggling
Tidgy is offline  
Old 12 July 2018, 12:43 PM
  #2986  
BMWhere?
Scooby Senior
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Friedrichshafen Germany/Preston UK
Posts: 2,110
Default

Originally Posted by Tidgy View Post
do you honestly thing a hard border will stop smuggling
We're not talking about a few criminals smuggling a van full of cigarettes and whisky here. We're talking about industrial scale smuggling.

Say the UK increases steel tariffs to protect the steel industry (unlikely given it was the UK that blocked the EU increasing steel tariffs, but still) and the EU doesn't. Importing steel into the UK from China or the US would become more expensive. Without border controls, then the Chinese or US companies could just import the steel to Ireland with the lower EU tariffs, then ship it uncontrolled across the Irish border and further into the UK mainland, thus bypassing the UKs tariffs and hurting the British steel industry, rendering the whole point of taking back control pretty pointless. The same is true for anything where the UK lowers tariffs in relation to the EU, the UK becomes a back-door to the EU which then undermines their tariff system. The result is lose-lose for both the UK and the EU.


The only option is customs alignment rather than customs union, but in reality that is just a customs union in all but name and you haven't taken back any control as the EU as the bigger partner would still be dictating the tariffs to the UK.
BMWhere? is offline  
Old 12 July 2018, 01:14 PM
  #2987  
andy97
Scooby Regular
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Api 500+bhp MD321T @91dB Probably SN's longest owner of an Impreza Turbo
Posts: 5,070
Default

Who gives a **** about the irish border. It's a mole hill blown up into something vitally important by remainer supporters
andy97 is offline  
Old 12 July 2018, 01:26 PM
  #2988  
BMWhere?
Scooby Senior
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Friedrichshafen Germany/Preston UK
Posts: 2,110
Default

Originally Posted by andy97 View Post
Who gives a **** about the irish border. It's a mole hill blown up into something vitally important by remainer supporters
....and the DUP!...and its one of the red lines for the EU!


But, you keep enjoying you cake there in the belief that Brexit is really simple!
BMWhere? is offline  
Old 12 July 2018, 01:38 PM
  #2989  
Martin2005
Scooby Regular
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Type 25. Build No.34
Posts: 8,222
Default

Originally Posted by andy97 View Post
Who gives a **** about the irish border. It's a mole hill blown up into something vitally important by remainer supporters

Just goes to show that you really haven't got the first idea. If I were you I'd stop posting, because you're making yourself look silly.
Martin2005 is offline  
Old 12 July 2018, 01:44 PM
  #2990  
andy97
Scooby Regular
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Api 500+bhp MD321T @91dB Probably SN's longest owner of an Impreza Turbo
Posts: 5,070
Default

The UK doesn't have to have a border. Leave that to the EU. UK is wanting a fta.
andy97 is offline  
Old 12 July 2018, 01:49 PM
  #2991  
JTaylor
Scooby Regular
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Home
Posts: 14,751
Default

The plural of ego is egos.
JTaylor is offline  
Old 12 July 2018, 02:37 PM
  #2992  
BMWhere?
Scooby Senior
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Friedrichshafen Germany/Preston UK
Posts: 2,110
Default

Originally Posted by andy97 View Post
The UK doesn't have to have a border. Leave that to the EU. UK is wanting a fta.
How exactly does the UK not have a border with the EU if the EU has a border with the UK? Please explain in detail how you envisage this to work!
BMWhere? is offline  
Old 12 July 2018, 02:42 PM
  #2993  
Tidgy
Scooby Regular
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Notts
Posts: 22,242
Default

News just in, 'After England lose to Croatia at the world cup, Remainers say FIFA should replay the match until they get the result they're happy with'

pmsl, just came up on FB and couldn't help but larf even if it is true
Tidgy is offline  
Old 12 July 2018, 03:02 PM
  #2994  
andy97
Scooby Regular
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Api 500+bhp MD321T @91dB Probably SN's longest owner of an Impreza Turbo
Posts: 5,070
Default

Originally Posted by BMWhere? View Post
How exactly does the UK not have a border with the EU if the EU has a border with the UK? Please explain in detail how you envisage this to work!
No Border NI .EU border in Ireland, there you go. It is upto the EU, .UK have said they never wanted a control.
andy97 is offline  
Old 12 July 2018, 03:04 PM
  #2995  
BMWhere?
Scooby Senior
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Friedrichshafen Germany/Preston UK
Posts: 2,110
Default

Originally Posted by andy97 View Post
No Border NI .EU border in Ireland, there you go. It is upto the EU, .UK have said they never wanted a control.
In other words, you haven't got a clue!
BMWhere? is offline  
Old 12 July 2018, 03:25 PM
  #2996  
Mr Fuji
Scooby Regular
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Posts: 432
Default

Originally Posted by BMWhere? View Post
In other words, you haven't got a clue!
And therein lies the issue with Brexit. There are certain realities, which they seem to ignore, no matter what sort of Brexit is delivered. And, no Brexiteer ever seems to want to come up with a solution, they want remainers to do it!
Mr Fuji is offline  
Old 12 July 2018, 03:45 PM
  #2997  
BMWhere?
Scooby Senior
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Friedrichshafen Germany/Preston UK
Posts: 2,110
Default

Originally Posted by Mr Fuji View Post
And therein lies the issue with Brexit. There are certain realities, which they seem to ignore, no matter what sort of Brexit is delivered. And, no Brexiteer ever seems to want to come up with a solution, they want remainers to do it!


Its the cake and eat it mentality that was used during the whole leave campaign.


They come up with over simplistic solutions to each issue which don't factor the glaring conflicts to their over simplistic solutions to any other issue.


Its very easy to belittle the 'remoaners' coming up with complicated problems to the Brexiteers simplistic solutions without actually presenting any realistic solutions and dismissing it all with don't worry, it will all be OK, someone will sort it out and everything will be better nonsense!


All you get is nonsensical statements like "Brexit means Brexit" and "No deal is better than a bad deal". Here's one for you brexiteers: "Staying in the EU is better than no deal!"
BMWhere? is offline  
Old 12 July 2018, 03:49 PM
  #2998  
BMWhere?
Scooby Senior
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Friedrichshafen Germany/Preston UK
Posts: 2,110
Default

Originally Posted by Tidgy View Post
do you honestly thing a hard border will stop smuggling
Originally Posted by BMWhere? View Post
We're not talking about a few criminals smuggling a van full of cigarettes and whisky here. We're talking about industrial scale smuggling.

Say the UK increases steel tariffs to protect the steel industry (unlikely given it was the UK that blocked the EU increasing steel tariffs, but still) and the EU doesn't. Importing steel into the UK from China or the US would become more expensive. Without border controls, then the Chinese or US companies could just import the steel to Ireland with the lower EU tariffs, then ship it uncontrolled across the Irish border and further into the UK mainland, thus bypassing the UKs tariffs and hurting the British steel industry, rendering the whole point of taking back control pretty pointless. The same is true for anything where the UK lowers tariffs in relation to the EU, the UK becomes a back-door to the EU which then undermines their tariff system. The result is lose-lose for both the UK and the EU.


The only option is customs alignment rather than customs union, but in reality that is just a customs union in all but name and you haven't taken back any control as the EU as the bigger partner would still be dictating the tariffs to the UK.
Originally Posted by Tidgy View Post
News just in, 'After England lose to Croatia at the world cup, Remainers say FIFA should replay the match until they get the result they're happy with'

pmsl, just came up on FB and couldn't help but larf even if it is true
So I'll take your lack of response to the industrial smuggling issue without implementing any border checks as your acceptance that your over simplified Irish border solution doesn't work in reality and you accept the Brexit is far more complicated than you ever thought it would be!
BMWhere? is offline  
Old 12 July 2018, 03:53 PM
  #2999  
Martin2005
Scooby Regular
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Type 25. Build No.34
Posts: 8,222
Default

Originally Posted by BMWhere? View Post
So I'll take your lack of response to the industrial smuggling issue without implementing any border checks as your acceptance that your over simplified Irish border solution doesn't work in reality and you accept the Brexit is far more complicated than you ever thought it would be!

I'm just waiting for 'it's simple, let's just make Ireland leave the EU too'
Martin2005 is offline  
Old 12 July 2018, 04:18 PM
  #3000  
fpan
Scooby Regular
iTrader: (10)
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 2,819
Default

Originally Posted by Tidgy View Post
o god please dont try that just in time crap, we get food experts from all over the world, they have to go through or they spoil and waste, not to mention other sectors that trade all over the world on that very basis. So the idea its going to be a problem it total crap and nothing but fear mongering.

This is the whole issue with people arguing against brexit, all they ever see is the fear thats put into them. Is it going to make things a bit more of a pain, yes, but it isn't going to implode like its being made out to by those with an agenda.
What about the effect on the industry it will have?
Do you think this is scaremongering?
https://www.birminghampost.co.uk/bus...-hard-14870403
I am not pro EU but a country needs to look at what's best for its economy and not politicians caring for their voters.

Originally Posted by BMWhere? View Post
I really don't have a problem with a united states of Europe. This notion that we're somehow different or better because we just happened to be born on one side or another of some imaginary line is really quite pathetic. It makes no difference to me where my taxes are set or who creates the laws as long as its all done democratically.

In reality, a united Europe would be a devolved federal system similar to the current devolved UK states, the German federal system or the USA. Some taxes and laws will be set centrally and others will be set locally.
Unfortunately EU has been setup that mainly Germany and France benefit from it though and it's not at all democratic. The idea would have been nice though.
First of all the € is a currency borrowed from the ECB.
Have a read through this in case you are not already aware: http://www.eu-facts.org/en/backgroun...e_lecture.html

Last edited by fpan; 12 July 2018 at 04:35 PM.
fpan is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Quick Reply: So Brexit seems to be a good thing then.


Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

© 2019 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands

We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.