hodgy0_2

china

ditchmyster

iTrader: (7)

I bet all of this makes them smile, they don't even need to sell the west anything anymore... they can just sit back and rake in the interest and probably still do pretty well.

War anybody?????

hodgy0_2

well interestingly Trump pulled out of the TPP trade deal

it was suggested the TPP (Trans Pacific Partnership) was an attempt to "box" China in, economically speaking

but who is now muted to replace the US in the TPP

yep China

http://edition.cnn.com/2017/01/23/op...trand-opinion/

http://news.sky.com/story/donald-tru...china-10667342

Petem95

Yes I'm aware of the financial crisis, and as a result didn't reference that the Fed's balance book increased from $700bn to $4.5trn (which is horrific, and this is in addition to the national debt) during Obama's 8 years.

Hodgy, 'percentage' increase in debt is one way of making the figures look better for Obama, but let's look at actual increase in dollar terms as we're not writing for the Guardian:



Obama added the most debt under any president resign in history, fact. Yes I agree he inherited a basket case economy from Bush, but he left it in an even worse state when he left office however you look at it.

Yes Trump is going to increase debt as probably similar amounts, but his plans will likely increase tax receipts significantly, and the infrastructure spending will also put money back into the economy, and lead to increased efficiencies - so he's spending money to make money, not pouring money into unsustainable social projects.

hodgy0_2

the US economy has been doing pretty well over the last 3 to 4 years

it is in recovery mode

and your graph, like mine shows that it clearly started under Reagan

and I clearly shows in % terms it more than doubled under Bush - I repeat more than DOUBLED

Obama had to deal with the Financial Crash

Petem95

Recovery mode?! With near zero interest rates, over $12trn in quantise easing and the lowest average growth of any president reign?!

It's not recovery mode, it's still in crisis mode. The Fed has been on about 'recovery around the corner' and 'escape velocity' for years.

Growth in debt has replaced organic growth in the economy. The winners are the rich, and losers are the middle classes (more and more of them are becoming poor, hence why Trump got in).

hodgy0_2

so Obama had to deal with the financial crash a basket case of an economy left by Bush - with a more than doubling of Debt

he leaves the economy improving - growth up, jobs up, wages up

and he is the "bogey man"

lol,

alt.reality

hodgy0_2

clearly the winners were the rich - look at your graphs

the debt was increased by Reagan and Bush with tax cuts for the Rich

look at the graphs for wealth inequality - again sky rocketed after Reagan

the debt growth started under Reagan with his voodoo economics, continued under Bush

Bush more that doubled the debt

Martin2005

Seriously?

trails

iTrader: (41)

I was under the impression that was caused by Clinton being selected to run not Bernie. So nothing to do with Obama himself; a protest vote in the same vein as Brexit over here?

dpb

Ronnie's star wars cost quite a bit !

Petem95

Alt reality, that's what I'm thinking too!

Obama's had the lowest economic growth of any president. After years of QE and zero rates there has only been a slight pick up in growth in the latter part of 2016.

Unemployment is fractionally higher now than when he took office, but the jobs added under Obama have been very low quality: "95 percent of those are temporary, contractual jobs or part-time employment" https://www.rt.com/usa/371329-obama-...rs-job-growth/

US median household income adjusted for inflation has fallen under Obama



I'm not saying he's the bogey man, I'm just pointing out that he's not done a great job, although I can understand to a liberal-progressive it's probably impossible to admit that he's done anything other than 'the best job ever as he's the bestest president ever'

hodgy0_2

well he inherited a mess, the financial crisis and a more than doubling of debt under Bush, started by Reagan

I certainly don't think he has done a wonderful job, in fact Trump is an indication that to a large degree he failed

but then anyone who has read my posts on the US over the last 10 years will know I think the US is a basket case anyway - Obama or not

1 man can't change it - indeed he had to deal with a Republican senate and house of representatives who stymied anything he tried to do

Petem95

I would say it's mainly down to a growth in inequality. The middle classes are shrinking in most western countries, and these people are not happy, yet their views have been ignored up until now. Brexit, Trump, upcoming political 'shocks' in Europe are the result. I guess this is democracy, but people need to recognise these voices need to be heard. Taking the liberal approach that anyone who disagrees with your vision is automatically 'racist' 'xenophobic' etc is just adding fuel to the fire.

@Hodgy, yes pretty much agree with your last statement.

ditchmyster

iTrader: (7)

Looks to me like Bush increased debt by 3.5 T and Obama increased it by roughly 2.5 T.... not that I care who did what... for me they're all opposite sides of the same coin.

Petem95

Massive respect to this black guy for standing up for what he believes in! The liberals need to learn to respect other peoples opinions. You guys should watch this, he makes a lot of good points!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PV2HEtXLRL8

trails

iTrader: (41)

Entirely agree, we have lost the art of debate and rely instead on shouting down those we don't agree with. Self-righteousness is powerful motivation. Feels like it all began during Blair's reign, so I'd like to blame the odious little **** (even if it isn't entirely his fault).

dpb

So hes already fcuked over the indigenous Indians with his oil pipeline

cos why would an immigrant residing in nyc care

ditchmyster

iTrader: (7)

Yep some valid points... but what he says about the media works both ways... as it has done in the UK... scare tactics, blaming the situation in the UK on Europe and foreign labour... my opinion is as with most of todays evils... it's corporate lead... it's all about the money honey.

Petem95

Absolutely, and the Globalists are the ones who are making it by pushing their progressive/liberal agenda.

Remove boarders and cheap labour floods to where the jobs are. These are likely unskilled or low skilled people, so they take jobs from low paid workers and lower middle class.

Result? The middle class shrinks as a proportion of the workforce, and the low paid grow in numbers. The losers? Mainly the middle classes who've become low paid, or lost their jobs completely. The beneficiaries? The rich, who get richer as their corporations benefit from reduced labour costs.

This is just an increase in inequality in Western countries. The middle class has been shrinking for some decades, with the gap between rich and poor continuing to widen.

Globalists are smart, and they're funding the media etc who will support their views, and peddle their 'liberal progressive' agenda, with anyone who disagrees branded 'racist' 'xenophobic' etc etc. Look at Soros, all the organisations he funds.

dpb

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencete...s-instead.html

dpb

https://www.ft.com/content/dec677c0-...5-95d1533d9a62


All a conspiracy at the hands of the well off

madscoob

iTrader: (3)

totally spot on article. this all started years ago company buys machine to do the work of 10 men only needs 2men to operate it, because the machine is classed as capital investment the company gets to write of the cost of it off thier tax bill, there is no way 2 men can pay enough tax to fund the other 8 on the dole, and just to take the p1ss the ceo of said company then registers the head office abroad so the company pays no uk tax(cadburys etc) then to top it all he pays himself to the limit of the 50%tax bracket and then boosts his wages with a annual shares bonus which he sells back to the company and only pays 20%tax on because its classed as capital gains, wonder who allowed all this to happen in the uk ???? oh i wonder if it was the shareholders in said companies i think we call them mp's

dpb

Our patriotic friend across the pond is planning some nice tax cuts for the rich too


itll all trickle down to the workers though apparently

trails

iTrader: (41)

I would end up killing the TV Stu, the Horizon episode a few years ago about the middle east peace envoy was enough to boil my ****

JTaylor

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gneBUA39mnI

gary77

iTrader: (1)

Your graph actually shows it didnt more than double . It shows it increased by around 80% not much more than it increased by under obama .(edited to say it isnt clear what it was under obama because it only went to jan 2015)

It would be good if it should what the debt was before it increased by 80% . But what ever the amount the graph tells me it increased by less % under obama but still by a hell of a lot more dollars under obama

gary77

iTrader: (1)

Anybody can . Insurance companies own a lot of the debt and any super rich person can

I think they are called bonds

As of September 2014, foreigners owned $6.06 trillion of U.S. debt, or approximately 47% of the debt held by the public of $12.8 trillion and 34% of the total debt of $17.8 trillion. The largest holders were China, Japan, Belgium, the Caribbean banking centers, and oil exporters.

I think the $5t difference is due to the us goverment and fed reserve owning that much of the debt in some form

gary77

iTrader: (1)

And while im here i might aswel add a link to an interesting conspiracy theory

http://www.westernspring.co.uk/the-c...les-of-europe/

Felix.

https://softwhiteunderbelly.files.wo...tler-trump.jpg