Despite everything though , I cant see how it could be any clearer

Stay eu , greater power to negotiate en block with the other superpowers of the word , but in exchange help out poorer countries within eu

or , get out save bit cash short term , but lose it negociating our own terms worldwide over the next ten years

youll have a less fluid experience travelling Europe , but your grandchildren might not have put up with a turk next door

 

Well, they might, the UK economy could be so bad they migrate to Turkey

 

Well the weather couldn't be any worse

 

Some very funny Brexit / EU satire...

 

We're all going to lose anyway.
If we choose to leave the EU, we're stuck with a government that doesn't respect our choice. If we choose to stay, we're stuck with a bunch of contemptible twerps who will immediately drop the pretense of unity and go back to the usual round of lying about each other.
Do you want to be fried or boiled? I can't say as it matters a toss, so it might as well be "Out".

 

I am fairly sure that the result will be Remain. Boris has lied so much and just wants to park his bike outside No 10. Gove is an intellectual with his head in the clouds and Farage is just a bit too racist. Mind you I don't think Cameron and Osborn have helped their cause by spouting Treasury guesses and have made so little of the positive side of the EU. Much more of a Ken Clarke easy going style would have helped. Brits don't like change and when in doubt stay with what we have.


dl

 

Brilliant!

 

Sadly you could be right. I said months ago that if in doubt ( and with a generous dose of no facts) the british public will cave in and just accept the status quo.
Unfortunately the minute we do, you can bet your bottom dollar that a) our negotiations with the EU will suddenly be null and void and b) the govt will never dare offer us the chance again.

 

I'm perfectly happy with the status quo, Chris.

 

I know you are, but I am not.

All I can say is if we vote to remain in and then suddenly years down the line the situation in the UK/EU is crap, then no amount of 'told you so' will make it feel any better.

Oh well, I shall make my vote count on Thursday

 

Fair enough. So what positive changes do you expect to see for you, your family and the country should exit become a reality?

 

Not going into the specifics but I welcome a change . I shall leave it at that.

 

A lot of exiters I've spoken with avoid the details.

 

I think the Leave campaign is losing momentum, high profile switch of sides of ministers to Remain and mainly the imposed break in campaigning due to Jo ***'s death allowed the public to pause and take stock as to what is at stake here. The markets have responded with a rise in the pound.

 

Anyone seen this?

https://news.liverpool.ac.uk/2016/06...rendum-debate/

I was fairly sure I would vote leave but after watching the above, I'm not so sure.

Leaving just seems to bring a whole load of grief that we don't really need, won't solve the issues with dealing with the EU, make it harder to deal with the EU, won't really make it easier to deal with the rest of the world and has no guarantee that will ultimately benefit the country.

 

A lot of remainers I have spoken to try to convince me with tales of misery if I don't change my mind. Or subtle digs.
But of course as friends we wouldn't resort to that would we James

 

Yes, but Warren said the whole thing needs to be dismissed as the man speaking receives some funding from the EU. The same doesn't apply to Farage, though.

 

I would have said although he starts out saying he is voting to remain, he does seem to imply that a leave would keep him and those like him in a job for the rest of eternity.

It sounds like a leave would mean we'd lose the benefits of being part of the EU and introduce a load of grief whilst dealing with the EU.

I don't see how the guy was lying when he said that leaving the EU would mean new trade deals with ALL other nations. And even then, there is no guarantee those deals with non-EU countries would be better now we are out of the EU.

Also, this business about Turkey joining - isn't Turkey so far away from passing all the requirements that it's decades away from joining?


EDIT - just had a look at the guy being funded by the EU. Well, that does imply that he might have a bias towards remaining but to ignore what he said would need backing up with picking apart what he says in the video and de-bunking his "facts".

 

Greece should never have joined but it somehow got fudged so they could

 

the irony being Farage has received quite a lot of EU funding

that video was very good - and reiterated what I said a few weeks ago

i.e. sovereignty is a total non issue - it is about power

he also highlighted an issue that I did not have sufficient clarity on

in that the single market is a lot more than tariffs - it is also about products and services complying with regulations

and whether we like it or not we will always have to comply with regulations

unless we want to become a sort of "Gypsy" nation - a nation who thinks normal rules should not apply to them!!

who think that any problem can be solved by turning up with a "wad of folding"

 

You mean like the other EU states do? Aye...right....

 

It wasn't a subtle dig, Chris, it was a blatant statement of fact. I spoke with a woman earlier who said she was voting out because she didn't like "all the foreigners" coming in to Wales to "use the NHS" and that her husband's mate had explained to her how expensive membership was. When I pointed out that Boris Johnson had peddled this untruth and that actually Wales is a net beneficiary of EU membership she told me that she "didn't want to get bogged down in details". I think this woman is probably a fair representation of the working class 'exit' mentality - people who think their spouse's mate is an expert and that Boris gives a monkies about ordinary folk. The EU isn't perfect, but nothing is. I've yet to hear a convincing argument that would encourage me to switch to leave - all I've heard are soundbites, lies and the pitiful expression of xenophobes and the thick. I don't see you as a xenophobe, Chris, and I know you're not thick, so why would you possibly want to give power Boris and Farage?

 

i hope you pointed out to her IT IS ACTUALLY OUR OWN MONEY THEY GIVE TO WALES AS PART OF THE REBATE

 

Well Madscoob , its like this

if you want live a little , you have to give a little

 

It really isn't part of the rebate.


I do wish folk would actually look into things before claiming to have all the answers

 

as you say rhetoric is important - which is why the Brexiters are so sensitive about the Jo *** murder

I heard Farage on the radio this afternoon - the "certainty" of his narrative is compelling

it reminded me of this article I read a few months ago - the article is about the conversion of a climate change denier (I love reading conversion stories)

https://www.buzzfeed.com/danvergano/...oGW#.ko4aR2LKY

but what is interesting - and why I was reminded of it was Dan Verago's "nut" test

and how it became the final piece of the puzzle

 

No... it just goes directly from Westminster to Wales...under EU orders.

Sound better?

 

ha ha thats a good one, shame is we get back so little. and then just to take the **** the eu gives grants to companies to relocate out of wales

 

No it sounds wrong.

You are also confusing the rebate with development funds.

 

That's a different issue.

One at a time please.