View Poll Results: How will you vote in the EU referendum?
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EU Referendum
15 May 2016, 10:14 PM
#781
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My own experience in this is supplying services to the US. We just signed a contract and got on with it.
On another occasion, we personally imported a large and valuable machine from China. This involved the services of a shipping agent who charged fees, along with VAT and duty. There was a little more paperwork involved than buying a machine from the EU.
These are my most significant personal transactions with overseas companies. The best company to sell services to was in the US, the best company to buy a product from was in China.
Currency, language, distance, timezones and cultures are all issues. As they are in Europe. VAT is a zero sum game. Dutty is disappointing.
I guess there would be a lot more aggro setting up the movement of goods outwith the EU?
What else am I not getting about trade deals?
On another occasion, we personally imported a large and valuable machine from China. This involved the services of a shipping agent who charged fees, along with VAT and duty. There was a little more paperwork involved than buying a machine from the EU.
These are my most significant personal transactions with overseas companies. The best company to sell services to was in the US, the best company to buy a product from was in China.
Currency, language, distance, timezones and cultures are all issues. As they are in Europe. VAT is a zero sum game. Dutty is disappointing.
I guess there would be a lot more aggro setting up the movement of goods outwith the EU?
What else am I not getting about trade deals?
If you except a little more paperwork and "disappointing duty" on every good and service UK Plc receives from Europe
They obviously would apply the same to us, making goods from the U.S. and Chine equally as attractive to them - a little more paperwork etc
And it is worth noting, there are no absolute right or wrongs in this
It is not a maths equation that has an answer
Pros and cons on each side
But you have to question what the end game for each scenario is
Last edited by hodgy0_2; 15 May 2016 at 10:17 PM.
16 May 2016, 08:00 AM
#782
Interesting point that. It could make USA imported items more attractive. That's assuming there is a "queue", which Obsma seems to imply. I like to see more details about who is in that trade deal "queue" before deciding further on that.
China is a given. Seeing that it's fair to estimate that almost everyone in the UK is within five metres of something either made in China or using internal components from China, it's a important consideration.
In terms of Europe where free trade = free movement, we'll have to wait and see how Canada pans out. As it looks like that if they get a trade deal without subscribing to free movement, it does set a precedence that this is not a mandatory requirement, or at least a negotiable one.
Not that I'm against free movement, far from it. But it needs to be managed better and vastly reformed, for example if I moved to Spain tomorrow, what in/out of work benefits that would be available to me are massively less than the UK apart from I can "work"the British benefit/health system so I can get UK benefits over there, nice! Spain has immigrant issues too but its generally isolated to black market and crime.
We've very recently had a explosion of Romanian immigrants in this area. The local British-Pskistani community in this area are up in arms about it. I find it ironic as those complaining are second/third generation - now British, can now see what happened to the very same towns they live in when their grand parents came here en-masse. It's not pleasant to have the area in which you live being flooded with people who have different values and seem unable to properly integrate. (Just like the British expats
-before anyone tries that on me, I'll point out that some reflect the worst image of the British migrant. But a important point with expats, many do pay more into the local economy than take it out....even our NHS funds their health care over there. Nice! Back to my point though, it needs reform. Especially if the EU what's to forever expand to include developing/boarder-line third world countries.
The brexit vote IMO has caused a awkward situation where if I vote to stay, I feel that this implies that I'm happy for the EU to continue on its current path without reform. At the same time I do not what to cut all ties with the Union by voting out.
China is a given. Seeing that it's fair to estimate that almost everyone in the UK is within five metres of something either made in China or using internal components from China, it's a important consideration.
In terms of Europe where free trade = free movement, we'll have to wait and see how Canada pans out. As it looks like that if they get a trade deal without subscribing to free movement, it does set a precedence that this is not a mandatory requirement, or at least a negotiable one.
Not that I'm against free movement, far from it. But it needs to be managed better and vastly reformed, for example if I moved to Spain tomorrow, what in/out of work benefits that would be available to me are massively less than the UK apart from I can "work"the British benefit/health system so I can get UK benefits over there, nice! Spain has immigrant issues too but its generally isolated to black market and crime.
We've very recently had a explosion of Romanian immigrants in this area. The local British-Pskistani community in this area are up in arms about it. I find it ironic as those complaining are second/third generation - now British, can now see what happened to the very same towns they live in when their grand parents came here en-masse. It's not pleasant to have the area in which you live being flooded with people who have different values and seem unable to properly integrate. (Just like the British expats
-before anyone tries that on me, I'll point out that some reflect the worst image of the British migrant. But a important point with expats, many do pay more into the local economy than take it out....even our NHS funds their health care over there. Nice! Back to my point though, it needs reform. Especially if the EU what's to forever expand to include developing/boarder-line third world countries.The brexit vote IMO has caused a awkward situation where if I vote to stay, I feel that this implies that I'm happy for the EU to continue on its current path without reform. At the same time I do not what to cut all ties with the Union by voting out.
Last edited by ALi-B; 16 May 2016 at 08:02 AM.
16 May 2016, 09:16 AM
#783
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China is a given. Seeing that it's fair to estimate that almost everyone in the UK is within five metres of something either made in China or using internal components from China, it's a important consideration.
In terms of Europe where free trade = free movement, we'll have to wait and see how Canada pans out. As it looks like that if they get a trade deal without subscribing to free movement, it does set a precedence that this is not a mandatory requirement, or at least a negotiable one.
Not that I'm against free movement, far from it. But it needs to be managed better and vastly reformed, for example if I moved to Spain tomorrow, what in/out of work benefits that would be available to me are massively less than the UK apart from I can "work"the British benefit/health system so I can get UK benefits over there, nice! Spain has immigrant issues too but its generally isolated to black market and crime.
In terms of Europe where free trade = free movement, we'll have to wait and see how Canada pans out. As it looks like that if they get a trade deal without subscribing to free movement, it does set a precedence that this is not a mandatory requirement, or at least a negotiable one.
Not that I'm against free movement, far from it. But it needs to be managed better and vastly reformed, for example if I moved to Spain tomorrow, what in/out of work benefits that would be available to me are massively less than the UK apart from I can "work"the British benefit/health system so I can get UK benefits over there, nice! Spain has immigrant issues too but its generally isolated to black market and crime.
anyone can negotiate a trade deal - it is the terms that are important
16 May 2016, 09:17 AM
#784
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as do (according to the reports) EU migrants
16 May 2016, 12:19 PM
#786
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Yet you are quite happy to accept laws in the UK whether they suit you or not. The UK is mostly governed by parties without a majority of the public votes, yet this doesn't seem to be a problem. The UK could indeed negotiate new trade deals with the UKs best interests at heart, but you can guarantee it won't wont suit everyone in the UK. Kinda like the EU, then........
16 May 2016, 03:38 PM
#788
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But it WILL be the end of the UK as a self governing nation if people vote remain
16 May 2016, 04:09 PM
#789
Yet you are quite happy to accept laws in the UK whether they suit you or not. The UK is mostly governed by parties without a majority of the public votes, yet this doesn't seem to be a problem. The UK could indeed negotiate new trade deals with the UKs best interests at heart, but you can guarantee it won't wont suit everyone in the UK. Kinda like the EU, then........
1. I have no say, except I CAN vote whichever party p*sses me off out of power...or at least vote against them. Not so with the EU.
2. But if WE negotiated it will have been done with UKplc in mind, not EU/federal state
16 May 2016, 06:48 PM
#790
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16 May 2016, 07:08 PM
#791
Economy has nothing to do with it. I agree it will probably not change a lot in terms of trade with the EU
This is all about control and who you want to govern you, your ability to remove these parties if they don't suit the public. Only a UK government can be controlled this way. The EU is uncontrollable and the UK's MEPs have little to none influence over anything.
This is the crux of the point to leaving the EU
This is all about control and who you want to govern you, your ability to remove these parties if they don't suit the public. Only a UK government can be controlled this way. The EU is uncontrollable and the UK's MEPs have little to none influence over anything.
This is the crux of the point to leaving the EU
16 May 2016, 08:47 PM
#792
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Economy has nothing to do with it. I agree it will probably not change a lot in terms of trade with the EU
This is all about control and who you want to govern you, your ability to remove these parties if they don't suit the public. Only a UK government can be controlled this way. The EU is uncontrollable and the UK's MEPs have little to none influence over anything.
This is the crux of the point to leaving the EU
This is all about control and who you want to govern you, your ability to remove these parties if they don't suit the public. Only a UK government can be controlled this way. The EU is uncontrollable and the UK's MEPs have little to none influence over anything.
This is the crux of the point to leaving the EU
16 May 2016, 08:54 PM
#793
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16 May 2016, 09:40 PM
#795
Have you ever been self employed? I have and it was nerve wrecking the first few weeks, but what I found more than nerves, the excitement to decide and choose which direction my business went. Yes I was Poorer, initially, but not for long, then things became rosier.
16 May 2016, 09:44 PM
#796
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Not every one is a superman!!
Building a society on winners and losers is a dead end imo
17 May 2016, 12:58 AM
#798
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If this vote was really about democracy, then I'd probably be lined up behind Brexit. Unfortunately that's BS as most of the leading Brexiteers aren't actually campaigning for proper democracy in the UK.
17 May 2016, 01:06 AM
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Economy has nothing to do with it. I agree it will probably not change a lot in terms of trade with the EU
This is all about control and who you want to govern you, your ability to remove these parties if they don't suit the public. Only a UK government can be controlled this way. The EU is uncontrollable and the UK's MEPs have little to none influence over anything.
This is the crux of the point to leaving the EU
This is all about control and who you want to govern you, your ability to remove these parties if they don't suit the public. Only a UK government can be controlled this way. The EU is uncontrollable and the UK's MEPs have little to none influence over anything.
This is the crux of the point to leaving the EU
17 May 2016, 01:08 AM
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Does anyone know what the plan is for the huge number of EU workers is should we vote for Brexit?
I can't find a sensible answer to that anywhere.
I can't find a sensible answer to that anywhere.
17 May 2016, 08:34 AM
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I'd imagine there will be a wait whilst the government actually makes up their mind, then a grace period to allow people to get visas sorted where necessary. Then everything will fall into line the same as with other migrant workers (assuming of course we don't sign a trade agreement with Europe which allows free movement of labor). But that's all speculation.
17 May 2016, 09:02 AM
#802
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That'[s because there isn't one.
I'd imagine there will be a wait whilst the government actually makes up their mind, then a grace period to allow people to get visas sorted where necessary. Then everything will fall into line the same as with other migrant workers (assuming of course we don't sign a trade agreement with Europe which allows free movement of labor). But that's all speculation.
I'd imagine there will be a wait whilst the government actually makes up their mind, then a grace period to allow people to get visas sorted where necessary. Then everything will fall into line the same as with other migrant workers (assuming of course we don't sign a trade agreement with Europe which allows free movement of labor). But that's all speculation.
I think it is time based - I.e. If you have been living in a country for more that 5 years - your rights are protected
but I am not 100% sure
http://www.theolivepress.es/spain-ne...ropean-expats/
"In fact, it is quite the opposite. According to the Vienna Convention on the Law of Treaties 1969 expats have now ‘acquired rights’ in their home countries, which they should hold onto in the case of a Brexit."
more info here
http://eulawanalysis.blogspot.co.uk/...nationals.html
http://eulawanalysis.blogspot.co.uk/...riates-if.html
Last edited by hodgy0_2; 17 May 2016 at 09:17 AM.
17 May 2016, 09:35 AM
#804
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yes its interesting
if the "acquired rights" is not honoured or found to be cumbersome
the EU migrants living and working in the UK will go (most economically active, paying NI and Tax etc)
and in return (from Spain at least) we get a load of crooks and OAP's - (neither of which are very "legitimately" economically active)
if the "acquired rights" is not honoured or found to be cumbersome
the EU migrants living and working in the UK will go (most economically active, paying NI and Tax etc)
and in return (from Spain at least) we get a load of crooks and OAP's - (neither of which are very "legitimately" economically active)
17 May 2016, 10:23 AM
#806
yes its interesting
if the "acquired rights" is not honoured or found to be cumbersome
the EU migrants living and working in the UK will go (most economically active, paying NI and Tax etc)
and in return (from Spain at least) we get a load of crooks and OAP's - (neither of which are very "legitimately" economically active)
if the "acquired rights" is not honoured or found to be cumbersome
the EU migrants living and working in the UK will go (most economically active, paying NI and Tax etc)
and in return (from Spain at least) we get a load of crooks and OAP's - (neither of which are very "legitimately" economically active)
Those living abroad are financially able so to do, and are a huge support to their communities. Without them, many rural economies would collapse. THEY AREN'T going to get chucked out and they aren't going to come "home" unless forced. They either have a business, or are on a pension.
And make no mistake, if this referendum goes the right way, france will start agitating to go, and Greece will follow us almost immediately. THAT'S why the EU need us to stay, and it's also why we should go. The experiment has failed.
As for migrants here, many, many are on some sort of benefit as well as working, which effectively negates any taxes they "may" pay.
And even if not, the children they have, and the drain on the NHS, housing and school places, negates any benefits they may give the country, other than cheap workers who drive down wages for Brits.Since the beginning of this year, we have noticed LOADS of Romanian women begging on our streets...supporting the community? Nope!
And the Albanians are knocking on the door....average wage in Albania, £3700 pa...have a guess where THEY will head????????? And bring their criminals with them...nice.
17 May 2016, 10:29 AM
#807
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So you voted for the Tories?
17 May 2016, 11:17 AM
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It's arrant nonsese and scaremongering, which is all the remainers seem to do at the moment.
Those living abroad are financially able so to do, and are a huge support to their communities. Without them, many rural economies would collapse. THEY AREN'T going to get chucked out and they aren't going to come "home" unless forced. They either have a business, or are on a pension.
And make no mistake, if this referendum goes the right way, france will start agitating to go, and Greece will follow us almost immediately. THAT'S why the EU need us to stay, and it's also why we should go. The experiment has failed.
As for migrants here, many, many are on some sort of benefit as well as working, which effectively negates any taxes they "may" pay. And even if not, the children they have, and the drain on the NHS, housing and school places, negates any benefits they may give the country, other than cheap workers who drive down wages for Brits.
Since the beginning of this year, we have noticed LOADS of Romanian women begging on our streets...supporting the community? Nope!
And the Albanians are knocking on the door....average wage in Albania, £3700 pa...have a guess where THEY will head????????? And bring their criminals with them...nice.
Those living abroad are financially able so to do, and are a huge support to their communities. Without them, many rural economies would collapse. THEY AREN'T going to get chucked out and they aren't going to come "home" unless forced. They either have a business, or are on a pension.
And make no mistake, if this referendum goes the right way, france will start agitating to go, and Greece will follow us almost immediately. THAT'S why the EU need us to stay, and it's also why we should go. The experiment has failed.
As for migrants here, many, many are on some sort of benefit as well as working, which effectively negates any taxes they "may" pay.
And even if not, the children they have, and the drain on the NHS, housing and school places, negates any benefits they may give the country, other than cheap workers who drive down wages for Brits.Since the beginning of this year, we have noticed LOADS of Romanian women begging on our streets...supporting the community? Nope!
And the Albanians are knocking on the door....average wage in Albania, £3700 pa...have a guess where THEY will head????????? And bring their criminals with them...nice.
That doesn't really answer the question of, what is going to happen to all the EU migrants if Brexit happens?
17 May 2016, 12:01 PM
#809
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You vote directly for MEPs, the EU Commissioners are appointed by governments elected by elecorates. Sounds democratic to me.....
As for negotiations, no deal will suit everyone. There are companies now that it would be a detrement for us to Briext, there are companies now who definitely would benefit from a Brexit. How do you negotiate for those two positions?
17 May 2016, 01:18 PM
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No, you vote for a party and the party decides a numbered list. If they win enough votes for 4 MEPs say, (under the D'Hondt system,) then the first four get in (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-27187434). Please understand the subject before commenting
I'll refrain from the ad hom, and only say I completely disagree with that analysis
The greater good
The greater good