madscoob

iTrader: (3)

the yanks will lead the way, it will happen before much longer
if donald trump gets elected we are all clubbing in at work to have £50 on him being assassinated within his first 12 month's will just have to find a bookie to take the bet,

madscoob

iTrader: (3)

heres a good one to watch for getting out

Geezer

No, you pay in because the government makes you. You would provide for your immediate family, who wouldn't, but if someone came up to in a non tax society and said "give me money for these poor people in Barnsley" you'd tell them where to get off. 99% of people would, I would, I freely admit. If you say otherwise, you are kidding yourself.

However, I accept that the money I pay in will go to causes that otherwise I would not necessarily contribute to as it is in the nation's interests.



You should try reading something a little less inflammatory than the rubbish sites you post here. If you think there is poverty in the UK, go to India, or Sudan, or Afghanistan. The UK is a modern, wealthy nation. There are people who are having a hard time, but you make it sound like we are a third world nation. We simply are not.

Take your paranoid, xenophobic ideas and the shove them, too.

Yet another terribly well thought out reposte......


One of the greatest challenges we face is our ageing population, both in terms of healthcare (NHS funding) and pensions (as Martin has already alluded to).

You're awfully hung up on immigrants, I have to say. Obviously new immigrants haven't paid in, why would they have paid in to another country's social welfare system or taxation? But, they do pay in, everyone has to start somewhere. You know, just like your grandparents, which you trumpet so greatly, did in the late 40s.........




You make out that everyone in the UK will lose their jobs to immigrants, but it simply isn't so. You fail to mention the huge drain on the NHS and education systems, because the government pays so low large numbers of indigenous teachers, doctors & nurse bugger off abroad or in to private, and the only way to fill those posts is with, yes, you guessed it, immigrants.

The only NHS dentists where I live are immigrants.

It is happening, just nowhere near on the scale you seem to think it is, nor is it the issue you think it is.



I've already explained to you why that figure is not important, if you don't get it, I can't help you.


You seem unable to process the fact that you can spend money and save money at the same time. One is not mutually exclusive of the other


I did respond, maybe you should read it.

The UK is not bankrupt, stop talking utter nonsense. An analogy of foreign aid compared to taking drugs or gambling, do you even think about what you write?



A lot of the laws that SMEs have trouble with are domestic laws, not EU ones. I don't disagree that there are some aspects of EU beauracracy are undesirable, but you make it sound like our everyday lives are entangled by ridiculous laws that make life untenable.



That is not the fault of the EU, it's is a peculiarly British phenomena. We are quite capable of putting in place our own stupid laws but resolutely sticking to them when we probably shouldn't.
Incredibly naive, our government has hiddend behind all sorts of stuff long before we joined the EU!
The UK net contribution to the EU amounts to about 0.5% GDP per annum. Hardly breaking us, is it? The CBI puts the economic benefit of EU membership somewhere between £60bn and £70bn per annum. Throw that way, makes perfect sense.
Paranoia.
Unlimited immigration, are you talking about free movement of labour, or non EU immigration? One works both ways, the other, I agree shouldn't be unlimited. But non EU immigration is unlikely to change outside of the EU.
Of course, more control doesn't necessarily mean they will do it any wiser or better..... As for border controls, I'm not sure why you think that non EU immigration will be any easier to control outside of the EU. It's not as if the UK is suddenly going to start deporting thousands of people or putting up massive coastal patrols.
Again, why is this the EU's fault? Sure, the laws won't be there, but there's plenty of UK only restrictions in place for you to moan about. ALso, you can bet your bottom dollar that without some of the safeguards put in place by the EU with regards to working, UK companies will behave very badly. Would make your six welders story look positively benign.

Of course, the UK is full of honest politicians, who never misbehaved, lied, swindled etc, before we joined the EU. If I could be arsed, I could dig up a load of politicians who have less than ideal credentials who are for Brexit, what would it prove?

dpb

Hes a tosser , just like the other one- Rees Mogg

madscoob

iTrader: (3)

hopefully we will be singing this on the 24th june

topshot

iTrader: (4)

Hopefully people will see sense and vote to leave. The EU have shown us no respect and simply see us a cash cow they can bully. Its baffling why anybody would vote to remain and be controlled by a bunch of unelected people who have no idea about the UK and its values.

dpb

What are those values ?

topshot

iTrader: (4)

Sovereignty, Democracy, Tradition, Culture. Basically everything that the EU wants to take away from us.

madscoob

iTrader: (3)

and on that note i will add if i had my way my passport would say ENGLISH as being called british is nothing to be proud of anymore

Martin2005

So not happy with just leaving the EU, you want us to leave the UK.

Well in which case I'm all for the City State if London. Rich, diverse, vibrant and no more moaning northerners, leaching off us.

madscoob

iTrader: (3)

southerner born n bred in fact part of your london is named after my distant relatives,or we are named after it,i will give you a clue its a very posh borough of london there is a big heath there, in fact my great aunt own's a mansion house there, my mum when she was alive managed to trace our family tree back to the great fire of london days, so sorry but i would consider myself ENGLISH, just the same as a welshman would consider himself WELSH and not british, anyone can be british now just need a passport, history no longer required

hodgy0_2

I view myself as a citizen of planet earth, that is where I live after all - not sure that would apply to some posters though

They seem to be on a different planet entirely

JTaylor

Strange thing, nationalism. Intellectually I'm in Hodgy's camp, a citizen of the world, but my heart's still firmly British. I kind of get the instinct of pride in one's national identity, but it's something I'd like to give up. Sport doesn't help of course, the acceptable partisan indulgence spills over in to the social conscience and we get the kind of petty, but dangerous xenophobia of the brand displayed on this thread.

hodgy0_2

Yes I agree pretty much, I am proud of being British and what we have achieved

And obvious am lucky to have been born when and where I was - it gives me the freedom to pretty much travel wherever I want to go on the planet

But I still struggle with the concept that some of the great natural wonders of the world, from the Great Barrier Reef, Chedder Gorge the Grand Canyon, Giants Causway or the Himalayas somehow "belong" to a country/peoples

I have mentioned before how the North American Indians happily traded land with the settlers, as they simply had no concept of land ownership - it was there before and will be there long after we have disappeared from the face of this planet

neil-h

Yeah makes sense...

Just to put a thought out there, maybe it's our own fault for being a nation of little Englanders? Maybe if we'd bought into the EU properly in the early days and gone the whole hog (currency and all), then we might actually have a proper say in things. Rather than being the outsider that only gets involved when it's convenient and the rest of the EU views as a bit of a pain in the ****.

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

Geezer, you just don't give a monkey's about THIS country, do you?

Is it because you is Welsh?

markjmd

iTrader: (11)

The organization we joined in 1973 was billed as a free trade zone and not a lot else, so why would we be expected to automatically go along with it acquiring an ever-expanding list of powers as time goes on?

As for joining the single currency, you really are just having a laugh, aren't you?

Geezer

Passionately, and that's why we should stay in the EU, because it is of huge benefit to the UK

I am, but at least I know it should be are Welsh

neil-h

Yeah, why not?

markjmd

iTrader: (11)

Don't be so bashful, you tell us why it's been such a raging success, and how we've tragically missed out by not joining it.

neil-h

Well we'll never know what could've been. So it's academic really, it was just food for thought.

Martin2005

We haven't missed out on joining it, that's obvious. That said, who knows what's in the UK interest years down the track? I would be fairly certain that if not in my lifetime, then in my kids, it will be very much in our interest to join the Euro Zone.

ScoobyWon't

If there are these type of people, then vote Out. That way we can implement an Australian style Point System, so that we can accept the industrious, ambitious and positive that you would like to be near. That will benefit us all.

Martin2005

'An Australian style points system' is an over-used sound bite, not a policy.


Besides we already have points based system - not sure what we need to learn from the Aussies

neil-h

I guess we can tick that one off the "big list of EU debate cliches" now then. Surprised it took this long to get mentioned though.

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

And the "Greek chorus" continues......

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

Not in any way.



You didn't get the joke, then?

neil-h

Granted 'huge benefit' is an overstatement but to say being in the EU is of no benefit is going completely the other way.

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

The disadvantages outweigh the advantages by a long way, IMHO.

neil-h

Fair cop. it's not something we're going to agree on but I can't argue that particular post. Ultimately at the end of the day we've both had differing experiences of the EU, yes it's not perfect but I don't see it as being as bad as you do.