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EU Referendum
All good with me... back in UK for a short time, but crazy busy so don't worry I won't be back here like the old days
Anyway must fly, have fun all
Scooby Regular
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Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 38,078
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From: The hell where youth and laughter go
I did say I left this thread to rot through lack of serious/levelheaded discussion. I did, and sought it elsewhere.
So just to contribute and share an insight of this I thought I'd post this link:
http://www.eureferendum.com/documents/flexcit.pdf
It's heavy going and whilst I've not completed reading it's clear that there is more than a few issues which are lacking within our own government and also the memberships of groups/organisation of which we are bound to by treaties which are separate to the EU (ECHR as one example ).
Being out of the EU won't affect these, but maybe put a highlight on further reforms after the dust has settled; assuming we ever get politicians who are able to tackle and reform.
One guarantee is that if there were an 'Out' majority, and we actually did exit, it will not be swift and could take many years and would still leave issues (listed in the linked document) unresolved; That is assuming we do leave, which is something I still question is that would our government let us leave despite a referendum majority to leave.
Hi F1. Blimey, internet on a plane- last long haul I did still had the stethoscope/tube-headphones for entertainment LOL.
We seem to be stumbling into more common ground of recent times which made me wonder have I changed, or you? Maybe both of us
So just to contribute and share an insight of this I thought I'd post this link:
http://www.eureferendum.com/documents/flexcit.pdf
It's heavy going and whilst I've not completed reading it's clear that there is more than a few issues which are lacking within our own government and also the memberships of groups/organisation of which we are bound to by treaties which are separate to the EU (ECHR as one example ).
Being out of the EU won't affect these, but maybe put a highlight on further reforms after the dust has settled; assuming we ever get politicians who are able to tackle and reform.
One guarantee is that if there were an 'Out' majority, and we actually did exit, it will not be swift and could take many years and would still leave issues (listed in the linked document) unresolved; That is assuming we do leave, which is something I still question is that would our government let us leave despite a referendum majority to leave.
We seem to be stumbling into more common ground of recent times which made me wonder have I changed, or you? Maybe both of us
Last edited by ALi-B; Mar 6, 2016 at 10:07 AM.
Scooby Senior
Joined: Dec 2000
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From: North Wales
You don't really get social responsibility, do you?
But that notwithstanding, would you care to explain how all these immigrants got these jobs? Was there such job vacuum that they rushed in like air to fill the void? I don't recall seeing articles about people being fired in favour of immigrants, so either it's a myth, or the indigenous population didn't want/couldn't do those jobs. Which is it?
Your assertion was that you should not 'chuck good money after bad'. Well, continually giving out benefits to the UK population, unabated is exactly that. My answer, though you failed to see it, or possibly didn't want to, was that to highlight that depriving people of essentials, no matter how bitter a pill to swallow, is not on the general interest. Straw man was a weak answer, but slightly better than IAJFFE, your usual, lacklustre response.
Can you possibly just give us some good economic reasons for leaving the EU? Immigration and beauracracy won't really be that different in or out.
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 15,634
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From: K
I was reminded the other day that whilst the "outers" complain about immigration from the former soviet bloc
it was the UK, that was one of the biggest advocates of "EU Enlargement"
Margaret Thatcher - 1988
We must never forget that east of the Iron Curtain, people who once enjoyed a full share of European culture, freedom and identity have been cut off from their roots. We shall always look on Warsaw, Prague and Budapest as great European cities’.
John Major - 1995
"‘I believe we must spread stability and democracy across a wider Europe. Eastern and central Europe have been the cockpit of war through the centuries. But we now have a historic opportunity: to bind them into a Single Market and the democratic embrace of western Europe. That is why enlargement of the European Union remains a vital objective’."
obviously as a tactic to dilute the power of the then big three
it was the UK, that was one of the biggest advocates of "EU Enlargement"
Margaret Thatcher - 1988
We must never forget that east of the Iron Curtain, people who once enjoyed a full share of European culture, freedom and identity have been cut off from their roots. We shall always look on Warsaw, Prague and Budapest as great European cities’.
John Major - 1995
"‘I believe we must spread stability and democracy across a wider Europe. Eastern and central Europe have been the cockpit of war through the centuries. But we now have a historic opportunity: to bind them into a Single Market and the democratic embrace of western Europe. That is why enlargement of the European Union remains a vital objective’."
obviously as a tactic to dilute the power of the then big three
You are talking bollo.
Not to those form outside the UK, when there is so much poverty, suffering, joblessness etc INSIDE.
Take your liberal ideas and shove them.
You are another IAJFEE.
I
But that notwithstanding, would you care to explain how all these immigrants got these jobs? Was there such job vacuum that they rushed in like air to fill the void? I don't recall seeing articles about people being fired in favour of immigrants, so either it's a myth, or the indigenous population didn't want/couldn't do those jobs. Which is it?
it's mainly that they will work for less. I know of six lads training to be platers, ALL made redundant, so the company owner could save a few bob employing six supposedly fully trained Polish welders, who would work for minimum wage or less. meanwhile, the owner bought his seventh new car to go in his seven car garage.
You just don't get it...if it's not happening to YOU, it's not happening, right?
Your assertion was that you should not 'chuck good money after bad'. Well, continually giving out benefits to the UK population, unabated is exactly that. My answer, though you failed to see it, or possibly didn't want to, was that to highlight that depriving people of essentials, no matter how bitter a pill to swallow, is not on the general interest. Straw man was a weak answer, but slightly better than IAJFFE, your usual, lacklustre response.
There is though.
1. we will no longer have to follow their rules, while the rest of them don't.
2. knock-on from that: nowhere for government to hide for silly decisions.
3. saving huge sums of money EVERY DAY.
4. Stop giving money to countries to take our jobs.
5. No more unlimited immigration.
6. More control of our own spending, borders etc.
7. No need to adhere to quotas others don't.
That should be enough to go on with.
And one last one: Mandelsson says we should stay in. This is the man who was sacked from TWO cabinet posts for dishonesty, so whatever HE says, we should do the opposite.
I was reminded the other day that whilst the "outers" complain about immigration from the former soviet bloc
it was the UK, that was one of the biggest advocates of "EU Enlargement"
Margaret Thatcher - 1988
We must never forget that east of the Iron Curtain, people who once enjoyed a full share of European culture, freedom and identity have been cut off from their roots. We shall always look on Warsaw, Prague and Budapest as great European cities’.
John Major - 1995
"‘I believe we must spread stability and democracy across a wider Europe. Eastern and central Europe have been the cockpit of war through the centuries. But we now have a historic opportunity: to bind them into a Single Market and the democratic embrace of western Europe. That is why enlargement of the European Union remains a vital objective’."
obviously as a tactic to dilute the power of the then big three
it was the UK, that was one of the biggest advocates of "EU Enlargement"
Margaret Thatcher - 1988
We must never forget that east of the Iron Curtain, people who once enjoyed a full share of European culture, freedom and identity have been cut off from their roots. We shall always look on Warsaw, Prague and Budapest as great European cities’.
John Major - 1995
"‘I believe we must spread stability and democracy across a wider Europe. Eastern and central Europe have been the cockpit of war through the centuries. But we now have a historic opportunity: to bind them into a Single Market and the democratic embrace of western Europe. That is why enlargement of the European Union remains a vital objective’."
obviously as a tactic to dilute the power of the then big three
Scooby Regular
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 8,222
Likes: 0
From: Type 25. Build No.34
my grandparents paid in so their children and granchildren could take out. So did my parents.
You are talking bollo.
Not to those form outside the UK, when there is so much poverty, suffering, joblessness etc INSIDE.
Take your liberal ideas and shove them.
You are another IAJFEE.
I
Bull. WHERE are you getting your figures? Tory central? Old people paid for their pensions. Recent immigrants have put little or nothing in yet. WHY should they take out?
it's neither.
it's mainly that they will work for less. I know of six lads training to be platers, ALL made redundant, so the company owner could save a few bob employing six supposedly fully trained Polish welders, who would work for minimum wage or less. meanwhile, the owner bought his seventh new car to go in his seven car garage.
You just don't get it...if it's not happening to YOU, it's not happening, right?
What part of £1.5 TRILLION in debt do you not get? WHY do you think we have austerity affecting so many of our own, yet idiots like you want to give money away???
back to fairyland again. if there's so much left, and we are soooooo strong, why the austerity?
Do you have a response, or are you just waffling again?
There is though.
Of course it does. If you go bankrupt, they STOP you spending like an idiot, giving it away, gambling, drugs etc. That's what YOU want the UK to do...chuck money at countries who will then take our jobs...as has already happened. Good money after bad.
I have done so. And who says? you???? LOL
1. we will no longer have to follow their rules, while the rest of them don't.
2. knock-on from that: nowhere for government to hide for silly decisions.
3. saving huge sums of money EVERY DAY.
4. Stop giving money to countries to take our jobs.
5. No more unlimited immigration.
6. More control of our own spending, borders etc.
7. No need to adhere to quotas others don't.
That should be enough to go on with.
And one last one: Mandelsson says we should stay in. This is the man who was sacked from TWO cabinet posts for dishonesty, so whatever HE says, we should do the opposite.
You are talking bollo.
Not to those form outside the UK, when there is so much poverty, suffering, joblessness etc INSIDE.
Take your liberal ideas and shove them.
You are another IAJFEE.
I
Bull. WHERE are you getting your figures? Tory central? Old people paid for their pensions. Recent immigrants have put little or nothing in yet. WHY should they take out?
it's neither.
it's mainly that they will work for less. I know of six lads training to be platers, ALL made redundant, so the company owner could save a few bob employing six supposedly fully trained Polish welders, who would work for minimum wage or less. meanwhile, the owner bought his seventh new car to go in his seven car garage.
You just don't get it...if it's not happening to YOU, it's not happening, right?
What part of £1.5 TRILLION in debt do you not get? WHY do you think we have austerity affecting so many of our own, yet idiots like you want to give money away???
back to fairyland again. if there's so much left, and we are soooooo strong, why the austerity?
Do you have a response, or are you just waffling again?
There is though.
Of course it does. If you go bankrupt, they STOP you spending like an idiot, giving it away, gambling, drugs etc. That's what YOU want the UK to do...chuck money at countries who will then take our jobs...as has already happened. Good money after bad.
I have done so. And who says? you???? LOL
1. we will no longer have to follow their rules, while the rest of them don't.
2. knock-on from that: nowhere for government to hide for silly decisions.
3. saving huge sums of money EVERY DAY.
4. Stop giving money to countries to take our jobs.
5. No more unlimited immigration.
6. More control of our own spending, borders etc.
7. No need to adhere to quotas others don't.
That should be enough to go on with.
And one last one: Mandelsson says we should stay in. This is the man who was sacked from TWO cabinet posts for dishonesty, so whatever HE says, we should do the opposite.
The money today's pensioners put in when they were working is long since spent. Spent on the people in retirement when they were working.
What will fund today's pensioners is today's taxpayers.
Last edited by Martin2005; Mar 8, 2016 at 12:52 AM.
OK, so it works in reverse. same as, same as.
The point being that we can't afford to give our taxes to those who won't or can't pay in, from outside the UK. We have enough here already.
Again...£1.5 TRILLION!!!!
The point being that we can't afford to give our taxes to those who won't or can't pay in, from outside the UK. We have enough here already.
Again...£1.5 TRILLION!!!!
So explain how it is that, when I travel to France, a supposed basket case in economic terms, and Belgium...no better apparently, they are building new roads, railways, bridges, science parks, shopping centres, artisan centres, logistics centres etc etc every time I go. There's something new on my route. Stuff being built. Dangerous roads being re-aligned, repaired etc etc.
Yet in the UK, apart form a bit in the SE: nothing.
I just don't believe what is said.
Yet in the UK, apart form a bit in the SE: nothing.
I just don't believe what is said.
Scooby Regular
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 14,758
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From: Home
So explain how it is that, when I travel to France, a supposed basket case in economic terms, and Belgium...no better apparently, they are building new roads, railways, bridges, science parks, shopping centres, artisan centres, logistics centres etc etc every time I go. There's something new on my route. Stuff being built. Dangerous roads being re-aligned, repaired etc etc.
Yet in the UK, apart form a bit in the SE: nothing.
I just don't believe what is said.
Yet in the UK, apart form a bit in the SE: nothing.
I just don't believe what is said.
JT: I'd invite you to come and look at Humberside: Scunthorpe, Hull, Grimsby, Cleethorpes, Killingholme, Immingham, if I had room.
There is land STILL available in Scunthorpe, for example, since the Tories closed one of our steelworks in 1980...that's 35 years!!! And little or nothing. Hull and Scunthorpe are three of the most depressed areas in the UK...in fact one area of Scunthorpe was second only to one of the London Boroughs under Labour, John Prescott's department said so
This weeks sees the last shift at the larger of the two coke ovens at the remaining works, a total of 900 jobs on the works alone, gone in three months.
And that's not counting the contractors and associated support industries. The town is dying on it's feet.
Meanwhile, the Germans and Italians gave financial and energy help to THEIR steel industries WITHOUT ASKING THE EU. We asked, had permission denied and away we go...yet again
THAT'S why I loathe the EU, the dishonesty.
Grimsby and Hull have seen their fishing decimated, with Britain being allocated only 30% of the fish from our own waters. Most Cod and Haddock landed at Gy or Hull are now caught by Icelandic boats.....you remember...the little island that defeated the royal navy, thanks to our great friends the USA
There is always TALK about new ports and new industries on the Humber, but we never SEE any...and what is in the area is slowly dying due to EU manoeuvring(sp).
Meanwhile, Redcar is even worse off: their works has already closed.
But hey...north of Watford, who cares?
The EU fees we pay daily could help THIS area out of the hole it's in, that's for sure.
The Tories recently gave the whole area £3M, less than 1/6 of what we pay daily to the EU at the lowest rate stated, and it's supposed to do good here for FIVE YEARS!!
There is land STILL available in Scunthorpe, for example, since the Tories closed one of our steelworks in 1980...that's 35 years!!! And little or nothing. Hull and Scunthorpe are three of the most depressed areas in the UK...in fact one area of Scunthorpe was second only to one of the London Boroughs under Labour, John Prescott's department said so
This weeks sees the last shift at the larger of the two coke ovens at the remaining works, a total of 900 jobs on the works alone, gone in three months.
And that's not counting the contractors and associated support industries. The town is dying on it's feet.Meanwhile, the Germans and Italians gave financial and energy help to THEIR steel industries WITHOUT ASKING THE EU. We asked, had permission denied and away we go...yet again
THAT'S why I loathe the EU, the dishonesty.Grimsby and Hull have seen their fishing decimated, with Britain being allocated only 30% of the fish from our own waters. Most Cod and Haddock landed at Gy or Hull are now caught by Icelandic boats.....you remember...the little island that defeated the royal navy, thanks to our great friends the USA
There is always TALK about new ports and new industries on the Humber, but we never SEE any...and what is in the area is slowly dying due to EU manoeuvring(sp).
Meanwhile, Redcar is even worse off: their works has already closed.
But hey...north of Watford, who cares?
The EU fees we pay daily could help THIS area out of the hole it's in, that's for sure.
The Tories recently gave the whole area £3M, less than 1/6 of what we pay daily to the EU at the lowest rate stated, and it's supposed to do good here for FIVE YEARS!!
Last edited by alcazar; Mar 8, 2016 at 01:38 PM.
JT: I'd invite you to come and look at Humberside: Scunthorpe, Hull, Grimsby, Cleethorpes, Killingholme, Immingham, if I had room.
There is land STILL available in Scunthorpe, for example, since the Tories closed one of our steelworks in 1980...that's 35 years!!! And little or nothing. Hull and Scunthorpe are three of the most depressed areas in the UK...in fact one area of Scunthorpe was second only to one of the London Boroughs under Labour, John Prescott's department said so
This weeks sees the last shift at the larger of the two coke ovens at the remaining works, a total of 900 jobs on the works alone, gone in three months. And that's not counting the contractors and associated support industries. The town is dying on it's feet.
Meanwhile, the Germans and Italians gave financial and energy help to THEIR steel industries WITHOUT ASKING THE EU. We asked, had permission denied and away we go...yet again THAT'S why I loathe the EU, the dishonesty.
Grimsby and Hull have seen their fishing decimated, with Britain being allocated only 30% of the fish from our own waters. Most Cod and Haddock landed at Gy or Hull are now caught by Icelandic boats.....you remember...the little island that defeated the royal navy, thanks to our great friends the USA
There is always TALK about new ports and new industries on the Humber, but we never SEE any...and what is in the area is slowly dying due to EU manoeuvring(sp).
Meanwhile, Redcar is even worse off: their works has already closed.
But hey...north of Watford, who cares?
The EU fees we pay daily could help THIS area out of the hole it's in, that's for sure.
The Tories recently gave the whole area £3M, less than 1/6 of what we pay daily to the EU at the lowest rate stated, and it's supposed to do good here for FIVE YEARS!!
There is land STILL available in Scunthorpe, for example, since the Tories closed one of our steelworks in 1980...that's 35 years!!! And little or nothing. Hull and Scunthorpe are three of the most depressed areas in the UK...in fact one area of Scunthorpe was second only to one of the London Boroughs under Labour, John Prescott's department said so
This weeks sees the last shift at the larger of the two coke ovens at the remaining works, a total of 900 jobs on the works alone, gone in three months.
And that's not counting the contractors and associated support industries. The town is dying on it's feet.Meanwhile, the Germans and Italians gave financial and energy help to THEIR steel industries WITHOUT ASKING THE EU. We asked, had permission denied and away we go...yet again
THAT'S why I loathe the EU, the dishonesty.Grimsby and Hull have seen their fishing decimated, with Britain being allocated only 30% of the fish from our own waters. Most Cod and Haddock landed at Gy or Hull are now caught by Icelandic boats.....you remember...the little island that defeated the royal navy, thanks to our great friends the USA
There is always TALK about new ports and new industries on the Humber, but we never SEE any...and what is in the area is slowly dying due to EU manoeuvring(sp).
Meanwhile, Redcar is even worse off: their works has already closed.
But hey...north of Watford, who cares?
The EU fees we pay daily could help THIS area out of the hole it's in, that's for sure.
The Tories recently gave the whole area £3M, less than 1/6 of what we pay daily to the EU at the lowest rate stated, and it's supposed to do good here for FIVE YEARS!!
For one so unlucky don't you think that you should support the opposite viewpoint?
It's not a joke. If failure is a certainty for anything you undertake you could be a massive success simply by throwing your best efforts into something you detest. Or you could make a fortune like that fat American golfer who reckoned he was paid $100,000 a year by Nike not to wear their clothes.
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Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 4,224
Likes: 0
From: Berks
watch the norway one after on the same youtube link,
humvee's and minigun time if i had my way
MIGRANTS -OSLO STREETS, NORWAY - FEB 2016 - YouTube
humvee's and minigun time if i had my way
MIGRANTS -OSLO STREETS, NORWAY - FEB 2016 - YouTube
useful tip, read the comments on YouTube and have a have a proper look at that video. It's not immigrants in Norway.