http://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews...cid=spartanntp

 

What he asked for: No benfits to migrants for first four years.
What he got: A brake on IN WORK benefits if he can prove to other states that we need to do it, and get their permission...so nothing, then.

What he asked for: no child benefits to be paid for children left in the migrant's home country.
What he got: we have to pay it, but only at the rate they get at home...so nothing, then.

What he asked for: The right to slow down and limit the number of migrants coming.
What he got: the right to discuss it with other states...so nothing, then.

What he asked for: Less integration.
What he got: less integration IF he can get 55% of the other states to agree...so nothing, then.

Pathetic.

And the clown is now trying to tell us he got everything he wanted.

If the EC will give a basket case like Greece the amount of cash they did, in order to keep THEM onside, what COULD we have had???

 

We're a lynchpin of the whole experiment ( despite not really being a part of it )


What would happen if everybody took our stance ?

I think it makes the in/out decision a lot more difficult

 

The out vote will never win, just like the Scotland split vote....all rigged, votes go missing, get spoiled etc.....people think it's a democratic process lol.

 

Democracy does not exist, it's all a load of bollocks.

 

Before South Thanet I would have laughed at this...

 

what a laugh they flushed this country down the crapper years ago, and all that prat is doing is giving us a little push with a bog brush,
the only gain there was the child benefit at the same as home country win,
that means £6 a month instead of £19 per kid for the 1st one per week

 

More democracy than a lot places round the world

 

Even Donald Trump didn't ask for a re-count

 

So back on topic, anyone come off the fence as a result of Cameron's renegotiation? Either way?

 

Even stronger desire for Brexit!

 

Cameron's "renegotiation" for a better EU deal is what homeopathy is to modern medicine; so watered down that it amounts to nothing!

 

It's worrying that government are going wholeheartedly for an IN vote, so can spend £millions of our money promoting it.

WHY do they so badly want IN?

And will the EC even allow the vote to stand if we vote out? Another Ireland?

 

Although in fairness most Tories are dead against it, but are forced to kow tow by the whips.....

 

I was on the fence 'til Lunchtime yesterday...then I fell off it when the details of this "EU negotiation" was announced. What a farce! And after hearing the Pole and Romanian politicians moaning about how unfair they think it is that UK wants to pay less benefits to children residing in the THEIR countries has cemented my decision.


OUT!

The fact that the biggest EU issues IMO weren't even uttered, let alone addressed means that the "IN" camp needs to come up with a hell of a good list of reason to stay in, because I'm not seeing any,

 

They will have £millions to play with in defending their case. wait for the lies to start.

THEN the EC will step in and reverse any vote for OUT.

 

I suspect they always knew this renegotiation was going to be a tick box exercise

essentially managing expectations and perceptions from here on in

 

Also referendums aren't legally binding and therefore the Government could simply disregard the results of the vote.

 

That last is worrying........

I CANNOT understand why Cam-moron isn't pushing harder, given what Greece has had and continues to get?

 

The problem with this renegotiation is that everyone, including the media, seems to be focusing purely on what Cameron didn't get for the UK. The EU referendum is more than about immigrants and refugees and benefits being sent abroad. The Syrian crisis just clouds our judgement further. Obviously the situation with ongoing conflicts with IS and also the current global economic climate only serves to make the public take on a more isolationist point of view and basically pull up the drawbridge. But this is such a short term "fix". If we do pull out of the EU there is no going back, questions need to be asked how will this affect trading with our European counter parts and also bear in mind that many businesses in non-EU countries use the UK as a portal into the European market, the UK is a major trading hub into the EU and we could lose this competitive advantage. We would still have to pay a tariff to trade with the EU like other non-EU European countries and without the benefits we currently have.

We've all grown up with being in the EU and from my point of view it hasn't been all bad at all, quite the contrary. Freedom of movement in the EU works both ways and we have many UK citizen living and working in other EU countries. I think we should consider looking beyond what an OUT vote would mean to us now but what it would mean for our kids and their future. How would I vote? I still don't know yet, but I am looking beyond Cameron's renegotiation and what EU membership represents as a whole in the long term.

 

OK, bit lethargic in here for something that will change the course of UK history, I'll add my 2p...

The renegotiation was even more publically pathetic than even I imagined. I thought that the EU would concede more on the (trivial) benefits issue. The fact they couldn't even be bothered to do that makes the situation of our supposed "influence at the top table" so exposed that even pro EU groups arent happy.

The timing of a referendum is also interesting. If held in June, it will be peak migration season in Europe, with stories flooding in of, well, floods of immigrants. After the incidents in Cologne, people are much less excited about "refugees welcome" as it becomes, again, increasingly obvious that a) they are not asylum seekers b) are not from Syria c) are not integrating/respecting local customs/ costing a complete fortune. Given that backdop, I can't see how the undecideds will vote remain.

My biggest worry is not the referendum, but what happens after. I can really see an Ireland situation, where all of a sudden, some new "concession" will be granted (please sir, can I have some more) and then will will be asked again until we get the right answer. I hope I'm wrong

 

the uk being in the eu is like. a loaded fat **** being a member of a expensive fitness club he never uses, but pays for vip membership, if we came out like the fat **** realising he was wasting his money, do you honestly think the eu would refuse us membership in the future rolflmfao they would bend over backwards to have us back, as for trade do you honestly think bmw audi volkswagon and all the other eu companies are going to stop trading with us or put their prices up, and as for the economic migrant crisis the point is in 3 years time when the 800000 in germany plus sweden etc get a eu passport their will be NOTHING we can do to stop them coming here

 

Weve only had about 20 so far lol !

 

Being an independent nation and determining your own future is not "pulling up the drawbridge". That is a deliberate misrepresentation. How about after Brexit we deliberately strengthen our relationship with the Commonwealth?


Thank God!

Where did you get the idea we have to be in political Union with people to trade with them? Is the US in political union with China? They trade together though....

Nope, international GATT rules prevent that, and given we are the worlds 5h largest economy they wont try that anyway

That's because you haven't checked the negative side out properly. There's more to being in the EU than being waved through at passport control in Spain.

Good point, where is the EU going? Well its quite open really. Ever closer Union. Its becoming the US of E. National Governments are being eroded to give the EU ever more power. The model is 27 commissioners propose all the laws and the Parliament merely tweaks them. The Parliament can not introduce any laws of its own. If you think that's democratic, you need to stop drinking the kool aid.

Lets also look at how the EU conducts itself. French and Dutch referendums (2005) ignored? Check. Greek and Italian PMs removed and puppets installed? Check. Ireland voted the wrong way (twice) and told to give the right answer? Check. Fancy some cash so help yourself to a countrys (Cyprus) bank accounts? Check. Stir up revolution in Ukraine by funding opposition? Check. Invite millions of migrants to come to Europe with no authority whatsoever? Check. Have such large financial corruption that your accounts have NEVER been signed off? Check. Invite broke countries to be part of the union, fiddle the figures so they can join then spectacularly mismanage the whole thing so your currency system regularly flirts with complete collapse, and keep the country in permanent debt and poverty? Check. Be so successful that you are the only continent that is in decline in the world despite having huge advantages? Check.

And you want to be part of that club? As the saying goes, with friends like that, who needs enemies?

 

We come out of the EU, do you honestly think we can rejoin as if nothing has happened? Don't count on keeping the GBP and wave goodbye to fiscal and monetary independence for a start! Had Scotland gained independence and remained in the EU, they would be trading with Euros, that is the stipulation for any country for wanting to join the EU.

No where did I indicate that EU countries would stop trading with us! Question is the conditions the EU would impose, would the UK still be as strong a trading partner, not just with the EU but with the rest of the world. The US has already stated the UK would face trade barriers with America, out biggest export market. Also you assume those 800,000 want to come to the UK, let's also not fall for the rhetoric and scaremongering, like UKIP's claim that the UK would be flooded with Romanians and Bulgarian migrants when employment restrictions were lifted for the 29 million in Romania and Bulgaria 2 years ago. Also being outside of the EU does not mean we no longer need to accept refugees, take Norway as an example.

 

See above. But like I said, I'm still undecided.

 

I want shot of the ECHR but that's not on the cards. An example of yet another european quango type organisation foisting its rules on the UK

 

Of course it doesn't, but it DOES mean that the EC can no longer force us to "take our share".

As for UKIP claims, they were far closer to the truth than those made by the government, and don't even get me started on 2002!!!
Bear in mind, UKIP never made the claim that MOST folk "quote", they said that that number would have the RIGHT to come, not that they WOULD come. And that still stands.

 

Check, the UKIP crib sheet...oh you did, sorry

 

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