jonc

She has already sowed the seeds at a hint for a 2nd referendum and if this hint spurs the Scottish people for a referendum, she may find she has no option other than to give what the Scottish people want, it remains to be seen whether she will make the same mistake as Cameron. Lets just wait and see whether the immediate discussions she is seeking with Brussels will bear any fruit. Personally I think what she is doing is counter productive in this whole process and only serves to add further uncertainty of the union between the UK and thus to any discussions the UK has with the EU.

EddScott

All Sturgeon needs to do is sit back and wait. She's holding all the cards.

Watch how the government handle the removal of the UK from the EU. If it looks like Scotland is going to benefit, she can claim she steered Scotland through troubled waters and the country is better off. If the government handle things badly or get screwed over by the EU she can call a referendum to save Scotland from the miss-management of Westminster.

She then puts herself in same the position of whoever is going to draw the short straw and take over after Cameron. Get it right, and you're a god, get it wrong and history will forget the how and why we got there, just who pulled the trigger.

If the government really doesn't want to enact article 50 the only choice is for the new PM to call an election. The issue then will be who gets to choose the "Lets press on with A5" and the side that says "Lets not and hope the EU doesn't punish us too much" - think I'm repeating what someone replied to one of my posts with but it stands to reason.

My main concern right now is where the hell is Boris. He better be coming up with the plan to end all plans. If he finally shows his face with no plan or even a whiff of indecision, he will be ridiculed for all eternity.

DYK

Yes.

But I've got the urge for a little bet that we won't actually end up leaving.I think the EU will maybe offer us a deal,and we will end up staying in.

JTaylor

A dangerous demagogue who's doing unspeakable damage to our nation.

http://news.sky.com/story/1718503/fa...t-laughing-now

Geezer

Interestingly, the Leave vote is dropping on the poll on this thread. From a high of 70%, it is now 68%. Even on here, which has proved to be overwhelmingly Leave, the change is happening. I wonder how that swing would translate to the wider UK?

It's not just the odd vote, ever since Friday, it has gradually been coming down. Ok, the absolute numbers of votes is low, but I have noticed it each day, creeping down just that little bit.

hodgy0_2

We’ve been through this edd

the PM has no power to call an election

so we will have to start negotiations before that – but the tricky bit is the EU

won’t negotiate before we pull the trigger

so we are sort of walking blind in all this

BMWhere?

Its only stabilising due to intervention from the BoE. The chickens still have not heads and the next panic is just around the corner!

Martin2005

Hodgy

The next PM could call an election.
They would need to either get 2/3 support in the Commons or use their majority to repeal the Fixed Term Act.

Either way an Autumn election is highly likely.

EddScott

Oh sorry. You did say go back but theres 101 pages. It's too much

I didn't know that. I'll be honest, the worry over this is actually keeping me awake

JTaylor

I take your point.

JTaylor

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.ind...client=safari#

hodgy0_2

the problem is Geezer

the remain campaign (and I am probably as guilty as anyone) of labelling the leavers “thick”

they are not “thick”, but they have been wilfully naive and ignorant

they have been misled by a clever campaign led by a small nexus of ideologues – campaigning on their genuine fears

and playing on the fact that some of the arguments are complicated and people simply don’t have the time / inclination to look behind the rhetoric (on both sides) and work it out for themselves – so now the blame game starts

and paradoxically who do they blame - well not themselves, that for sure


the Brexiteers (ffree market neo conservative ideologue’s ) use the same tactics as they use in every other “debate” they get involved in

I think all the remainers on here would never say the EU is perfect

It was always a balance of pros and cons - but that was too nuanced an argument for most people

Quite a good rule of thumb in these situations is to trust (with a healthy degree of scepticism) the experts, who by and large backed remain

I am not an oncologist – but accept the world’s experts view that smoking causes cancer

We see it in the climate change debate, pretty much all the world’s climate scientists accept AGW, a few outliers (in the 10’s) out of 1000’s upon 1000’s of climate scientist try and sway the public AGW is not happening – they rely on the general public simply not having the appetite to do their own research - and their agenda is pushed by the same rehtoric the Brexiteers use (who are ALL climate change deniers)

And why should we – that’s why we have experts, no one expect doctors to vote on a course of treatment, that is weighed up by experts

And that’s why the referendum imv should never have happened

The general public were left with an almost impossible task of sifting through claim and counter claim

That’s why a UK parliament, on its own would never have voted OUT, that’s why Margaret Thatcher agreed referendums are not a good idea

Paben

iTrader: (5)

Don't blame me if you can't understand the written word, dummy!

BMWhere?

Brexit Proponents’ False Promises Crumble

hodgy0_2

Edd, I sympathise with you

I hope it all works out

"lions led by donkeys"

JGlanzaV

iTrader: (3)

It's no wonder Europe want us to leave if they have to deal with this ******** every time they have a meeting

https://youtu.be/PViPAVPQS3k

DYK

Britons will continue to be able to live, work and travel freely to other European countries, a privilege the E.U. countries will certainly not grant without reciprocity. He also says that citizens of other E.U. countries living in Britain “will have their rights fully protected

On the one hand this a good thing,on the other,it means staying in the single market and still having to contribute to the EU.. Like Norway.

BMWhere?

Its that little glance and smug little smirk he gives at the end of that video. He's looking at someone and pretty much acknowledging that he knows what he just said is complete boll**ks! He really is an embarrassment to Britain!

BMWhere?

They Leave campaigners know full well, that should we actually invoke article 50, the only viable solution that works for the British economy is the Norway solution, but that is not what the Brexiteers thought they were voting for!

If you had put the referendum question in this context:
or...I very much doubt that there would have been a vote to leave! In essence, although the subtext to Leave was omitted, anyone with any insight into politics and economics knew this full well!

andy97

iTrader: (1)

Wow, willfully

You naughty brexit folk

hodgy0_2

Lol, don't bother replying to me Andy97

Speak to Edd, it looks like he bought the bullsh1t you were peddling

That know you say you're didn't even believe

dpb

Don't know what fuss is about.

Look at these two, it's almost tongues

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/...-a7106996.html

EddScott

What bullsh1t would that be?

BMWhere?

This bit made me chuckle... oh the irony

hodgy0_2

well where do we start!

that the 350 million saved to go into public services?

that the economic fall out would be minimal (forget the ups and downs of the stock markets / currency the mean diddly squat in the grand scheme of things)

we have lost our AAA credit rating from all the credit rating agencies - which will probably mean our debt will cost more to service

our short / medium term prospect are being downgraded by just about every single financial agency

we are almost certainly heading for another recession

and all that - we will probably end up in EEA, paying for the privilege, accepting virtually free movement of labour - but with NO control/influence over rules or regulations

dpb

Hey but we can at least Eat ourselves to death on sugar now without anyone getting in the way.


Pluses and minuses

andy97

iTrader: (1)

All seeing oracle has spoken, all bow before him

DYK

Blaaaaa.

I had an inkling about this,when I said yesterday I was little concerned about what will happen,it wasn't about coming out of the EU,it was about the people of the UK.
Sticking with the decision and seeing it through to the end..
It going to take a lot of time and patience and belief.
And there is little chance on the negotiations that we would not have to compromise.

stevebt

iTrader: (8)

I think the only way Britain will be able to trade with the EU if it exits, is by taking in more Immigrants. They are holding all the cards and that will obviously be their trump card they will play. They are doing similar with Turkey.

DYK

Well will just have to see.
To totally come out of the EU is a big thing to stick with and and I don't think the government would ever allow it.
Negotiations will always be some trade off,we will give you this,but you must accept this in return.I believe we will stay in the single market,there will obviously be some kind of deal made.