ditchmyster

iTrader: (7)

Yep as soon as they tied emissions to company car tax it changed the game, reduce or lose market share, when you consider all the company diesels sold in the the UK alone by VW, Audi, Seat, Skoda.

The roads would be a very different place with only Ford Focus,mondeo's, Vectras and Astras to choose from as many Jap manufactures are not on some of the really big ie top 100 companies car list, or lease / hire companies either.

Wonder if Ford being American had anything to do with it, erm coming to light.

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

The funny thing about that is that niether Ford or GM Europe make their own diesel car engines!

Ford Europe switched to using Peugeot engines many years ago.

Their puma diesel in the old Mondeo, whilst a solid engine in itself and very economical for its size/weight was a very dirty/polluting engine. It still survives in the Transit as commercial vehicle emission regs were quite relaxed until recent years.

Vauxhall dumped Isuzu and switched to Fiat over ten years ago, using their JTD engines. They still do now. (FWIW, Fiat invented the common rail technology used in almost all modern diesels).

Ironically Honda bought the rights to old discontinued GM/Isuzu diesel and developed it as their own.

So what we have is a Ford with a Peugeot, a Vauxhall with a Fiat, and a Honda with a Vauxhall engine.

Where in the VAG and BMW corner, with have a VAG group car with a VAG group engine and a BMW car with a BMW engine. Something tells me the Germans had a far better grasp at making engines overall than the others who had to scurry around and either borrow or co-develop someone else's engine.

AndyC_772

iTrader: (2)

I thought much the same, but then read the actual letter from the EPA to VW:

http://www3.epa.gov/otaq/cert/docume...a-09-18-15.pdf

Page 2, last 2 paragraphs. Any "AECD" must be disclosed, along with a rationale for why it is not a "defeat device". In other words, detecting the test process and adjusting the engine map to pass it, is specifically banned.

Alan Jeffery

I can't see any difference between that process and any other that adjusts a car's tuning to meet any other circumstance. Unrealistic, and also completely ignores the huge number of faults that occur in daily running, never mind the enormous and uncontrollable aftermarket tuning industry. It's the usual "sticking plaster" that government departments think will keep the Greens off their back.

dpb

I don't think they've gone far enough

If this was Toyota there'd be harikari , never mind your gracious step down for "the good of the company ,even though iv down nothing wrong" splurge

tony de wonderful

Technically, but legally it's quite different.

Adjust the tuning to pass a test sure but then run another tune for day to day driving, since the rules say that is illegal!

Alan Jeffery

I'd like to know what the test actually involves. For example, do they test it for flat out power? as in where you'd never legally be able to drive it? VW could make the case out over here that anything over 70 mph is of no consequence.

markjmd

iTrader: (11)

Martin Winterkorn only became chairman a few months ago, and before that had a non-executive board position. It might look like a cop-out, but it's very likely true he didn't know any of this was going on, and certainly true that he didn't have a job at the time when it all started where he could give the orders for it to happen. That responsibility would lie with Ferdinand Piech, if he was in on the scam, or with whichever of his underlings gave it the green light, if he wasn't.

Edit:
Oops, looks like I was getting Piech and Pieschetsrieder mixed-up, the latter having moved on far longer than a few months ago. MW may well have known quite a lot about what's going on.

markjmd

iTrader: (11)

If you start out from the fairly safe assumption that one of the major drivers of clean-air regulations in California has always been combating smog in and around LA, I would imagine there's quite a big focus on running either at idle or fairly low-speed. Anything over 30mph isn't going to be very relevant for cars that spend large parts of their time queued-up in traffic

3191

Good Time to buy a knocked down in price VW - lol

dpb

Oh dear , they've been manipulated here too

andy97

iTrader: (1)

Dot is going to retest vehicles in real driving conditions and compare them to static tests. This is going to expose how much fiddling of test results has been going on. Lots of problems for many manufacturers, fines, buybacks, compensation will be everywhere

daviee

They might need to re-band the road tax duties on cars, fingers crossed might get a rebate on the Subaru high bracket.

https://i.imgur.com/lhpUDCY.jpg

Alan Jeffery

I feel sorry for the Greens don't you? It's like getting to "first base" only to discover she's wearing "chicken fillets"

Spoon

I'm looking for a cheap Veyron now the owners know they aren't as green as they thought they were.

andy97

iTrader: (1)

This could well be the death knell to all aftermarket engine tuning. If governments introduce legislation so it's illegal to break emissions standards at anytime.

^Qwerty^

The EU are already at it. End result was watered down, but like you say, I wouldn't be surprised to see this come back with a vengeance but this time targeted at cars. Mind you, I'm sure it would be easy to defeat a fault light.

http://www.motorcyclenews.com/news/2...ing-measures-/

Paben

iTrader: (5)

I think you'll find decatted exhausts are already a no-no, and they are the major contributor to dodgy emissions.

hodgy0_2

you mean it would be illegal to not confirm to emission standards - full stop

but isn't that sort of what we have anyway

i.e. If you car fails the emissions test on an MOT test - it will not get an MOT until rectified, so presumably as soon as you car leaves the MOT testers station (with a pass) it is "legal"

if you then MAP or swap the exhaust or otherwise tamper in a way that effect the emissions (in a negative) way

you are not "legal" is just that it is hard for the police to tell

what would happen if the police/dvla did a random stop and test, by the roadside and found you "over" the emissions levels

would you get one of those defective vehicle notices

Alan Jeffery

WHATEVER they come up with, we'll find a way around it, don't worry.
Eventually we'll all evolve into creatures that don't use fossil fuels, but until then some part of my DNA will be making cars go faster.

dpb

Just imagine the revenue stream for the gov........On the spot checks with fines.

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

They wouldn't do that, surely?

Alan Jeffery

I attended a seminar around 9 years ago where they were talking about using spectroscopy to check cars on a drive by. We tested it using my Evo 6 doing laps around the Bristol University campus. Yes, it worked! No sign of it happening though as the vans cost £100,000 a pop.

andy97

iTrader: (1)

If there is money to be made the government will be in on it eg speed detection!

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

I think this is what may have caught VW out; It started out as university researchers using such prototype equipment at the roadside that is so sensitive it can pinpoint which car was producing excess emissions as it drives past. It has since been adopted by some states in the USA in trying to catch out heavy polluters whilst driving...we could call it an emissions gatso camera.

After a while they saw a pattern (newish VWs producing very high levels of Nox) and investigated further by acquiring and testing these cars. I believe the study originally circled on the EPA tests not being reflective to the real world, but in testing this theory they found the car changed its state of tune while being tested.

Considering the UK government was fined by the EU for not meeting pollution targets, I think our own government need to take a proper look at this. It should either claim a portion of the money back as it was beyond our control (the cars are made to EU regs, not UK regs), or our government just sues VAG to pay the fines that we incurred caused by their pollution.

andy97

iTrader: (1)

Researchers predict that only 5 cars out of 200 will be able to pass the new emissions test euro 6 compliant. I wonder if our new honda will pass?

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

Of course it will...they tested it using the EU driving cycle before putting it on sale. Who is going to bother testing in the real world?

In the real world however, its probably dirtier than my farts after a night on beers and bhunas.

andy97

iTrader: (1)

I think a solicitor s letter putting the dealership on notice that I might want my money back wouldn't go amiss

tony de wonderful

Could probably repay itself in a day if only 6/100 cars is within tolerance in the real world.

Jamz3k

It's funny how no other manufacturers are jumping on this to boost sales, it's a bit like they are all trying to ignore it n the hope it goes away!