I've often wondered about the conspiracy theory guys and do they have to use premium brands of tin foil for their headwear or will a store's own-brand provide adequate coverage at a more reasonable price?

 

ok you claim this evidence of a moon base or some Alien structure etc

so something I have said repeatedly regarding these daft claims is

1. either they are stupid
2. they are out to deceive you and are lying
3, or they know something that you don't

so what does Anthony Colaprete and NASA know that you don't

well he knows that the square image on the photo (not on the original photo I might add, that obviously just shows the moon surface!!)

is a grid reference indicator - why, well it was used so that Anthony and his team could call out the grid reference to observatories around the world who were training telescopes and other monitoring equipment

waiting to see the plume of dust created by an "strike" on the surface to find evidence of water

how do we know, well when this was doing the rounds a few years ago someone asked him via email - and below his is reply





more details here

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread819278/pg1

more about the mission here

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LCROSS

of course none off this will convince you - your fall back is option 2 above and you are a conspritard - with a closed mind

remember science is hard, conspiracies are easy

so not a moon base, a simple imposed grid to allow earth observatories a better chance of viewing an impact plume

 

you will simply move on to another daft claim, another blurred photo, or a quote taken out of context, or adding 2 and 2 and coming up with 65 - ad infinitum

 

Fair enough if it's a GRI and not an alien cave. But to be fair, after seeing the very first Jurassic Park years ago, I think our computers can generate some very realistic imagery. A friend of mine has created an animation piece for his uni lecture with a very strange range of monkeys in it. It's so 4-D realistic that it makes you believe that such monkeys do exist. Even our Jack Clark can create some super unbelievable sh7t on his latest MacBook Pro.

 

Well found Hodgy.

As with all CTs the actual truth is simple and straightforward. What they always ignore is the human factor. For instance how many people would be involved in the supposed deception of the moon landings? Many thousands would have to be, and yet none has come forward to say: 'It was a fraud!' Yet this and similar myths will persist as long as there are fools prepared to believe and maintain the delusions.

 

indeed Paben

Occam's Razor strikes again

the problem is, in the binary world of the CT'r you just get accused of believing everything you read in the MSM or get told by the government

they simply can't comprehend it is perfectly reasonable to view any outrageous claim with a degree of scepticism and demand evidence/sources - whoever it is

after all the opposite of sceptical is gullible - and they are sooooo gullible they buy any old crap hook line a sinker

they rarely look for information outside their self validatory bubble and simply discard any information that does not confirm what they already "know"

 

Bold claims require bold evidence and hence I'm in the grid reference camp on this one. (for the avoidance of doubt!)

 

You've been a member here since 2007, it has been done to death loads of times, each time it has been explained, and illustrated, and backed up.

A plane hit the Pentagon, plenty of it was found.

 

So because I have only been a member on here for 9 years and dont have a post count over 5k, my opinions and beliefs don't have any weight?

Sorry, I didn't realise you guys were so clique, I'll have to remember my place next time I dare to open my mouth!

Its very clear that the majority of you are right where the governments, media and military want you to be. Nodding your heads in agreeance with everything they say. Of course, they are the government, the media, why would they feel the need to lie to you? Plain fools if you follow their lies like sheep.

But thats what you are, sheep, too scared to realise the real truth. You follow because its easy for you, its comfortable to accept the most logical explanation for something, even when evidence suggests the contrary. I cant deal with plain ignorance. I am not going to waste my time with trying to help you make sense of the world around you. Your on your own, keep accepting the lies and deceit, as long as your happy.

You've made up your minds with the information thats been provided to you, you haven't gone out of your way to seek further evidence to suggest that what you have been told is in fact the truth. Again, the comfortable, easy way of life.

I feel sorry for you guys. But please continue with your copy and pasted government generated lies. Its most entertaining.

Again, my previous job was as a freelance security analyst, specialising in network and internet security, and also computer forensics later in my career. Some of my projects were with the likes of major high street banks, the military and some government agencies. As I said before, this put me in contact with some very interesting, very talented people. I am privileged to be able to access the sources of information that I can. Sadly, I am unable to pass these sources on to you, top secret I'm afraid, lol. But look hard enough and you may see where I have been coming from all this time.

In 2008 I retired from that specific career due to permanent back injury while scuba diving. I can only spend a couple of hours a day sitting in front of a computer, therefore, I had to look at a different career not involving sitting on my **** all day! Now the IS (Information Security) industry was and still is very lucrative, I took the money I earned and purchased two very profitable catering businesses in the seasonal sea side village known as Woolacombe, North Devon. Much less stress and now both businesses are under management. I spend quality time with my family, pursue my love for automobiles. And of course pursue the truth!

Why did I mention the above you wonder? Well, to try and add some credibility to what I am trying to get through to some of you. But I have failed, I am man enough to know when to accept defeat, so there it is, you all won, I lost. I failed. But did I get you thinking, did I get you questioning what you automatically accept as the facts? Just a shame that you haven't got more about you to break through the walls and dig a little deeper.

Shame really. We need more people in this world to see it for what it actually is.

But in hind sight, I guess trying to make sense to certain individuals on a car enthusiast forum was never really going to go anywhere other than where we are now. Its not really the place, and its clear that I am an easy target for you guys. I'll stick to other communities when it comes to discussing this type of subject!

So I am out, I'll not try and defend my position anymore. But before I go, just to let you know that Men In Black is on Sky GOLD right now!!! I'm off to watch that to fulfil my conspiritard fantasies.

 

Dozza, whilst you may be frustrated with some of the responses on here, you need to understand the other viewpoint. You're making some bold claims, which is easy to do. In order to build your credibility, you need to support those claims with evidence. Its kind of immaterial how many businesses you run or when you retired. Support your claims with evidence.

To tell us we dont understand, may be the case, so lay it out on the line. To say I cant tell you, its all top secret is the same trick that con artists use.

I have defended you earlier in this thread, and if you can provide credible supporting evidence, and factual information I will continue to do so. Your comments on tails/tor etc were factually based. That is what gains you the credibility, talking knowledgeably. Making unsubstantiated claims puts you in unfortunate company

Hope this helps

 

No, not at all, what I meant was we have done this to death a million times, you've been here for a long time, have you not bothered to read any of them over the years?

Your beliefs have as much weight as anyone else's, but you need to back them up, which you seem unwilling or unable to do.

Every single bit of 9/11 has been debunked, as have the moon landings etc.. You have not offered anything new, you have been over ground which has already been covered.

 

Back to the gun control, I do believe that gun control is direly required in America. If you can't have a gun (or an easy access to a gun), you can't shoot anyone, simple as. Whoever says it's the people, then I suppose the kitchen knife crimes will probably go up in the US. The point is that we don't know if that would happen for certain. We can only find out if we try the gun control. By 'we', I'm talking about the US citizens. I say 'we', because they're also humans; like us.

 

Even if the desire for gun control were there (which it isn't) it's difficult to know how the government could go about it, with literally billions of guns already in circulation. No one knows where they are or who owns them. With 4 firearms deaths per 100,000 Americans each year, many see this as an acceptable statistic when maintaining their right to bear arms.

 

Yes, with this ^ stat, I can imagine why it's a non-issue to many.

 

we need to be precise here

the 4 deaths figure is homicides not deaths by firearms

when you take into account ALL deaths (suicides, accidents etc)

it is much higher

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...ted_death_rate

for comparison in the US it is 10.5 in the UK .23

 

Yes, those were homicide figures, double that number are suicides but with relatively few deaths by NDs. The total firearms deaths figure is very similar to US road deaths.

 

Since the Vietnam War, about 67,000 Americans have died in combat.
In that same time frame, about 1.5 million have died in the US after being shot by a gun!

 

The best estimate of guns within the civilian population in the US is between 250-350 million. A hell of a lot, but not ' literally billions'.

 

It depends which assessments you believe, because this is an entirely unknown (and unknowable) figure. Since guns have been manufactured in the USA (not to mention the very many imports) 'literally' billions have disappeared into public ownership. Guns don't fade away like cars so the vast majority are still out there somewhere.

I've spent a lot of time around American shooting enthusiasts and it's quite normal for individuals to own a very large number of guns. I'll stick with billions.

 

Fair enough, but there are no estimates (that I can find) that even get close to billions. They all seem to settle at the numbers I posted earlier

 

Perhaps we should define what we mean by a billion? I'm using the 1000 x million billion rather than the old million x million billion. The latter would certainly be over the top even for the USA!

Of course these can only be guestimates as no one knows how many Americans actually own guns. Half of them? Two thirds? Three quarters? Seven eighths? No one knows, so they estimate gun numbers from an estimated number of gun owners.

 

Whether it's billions or 350 million is irrelevant, gents, the lower number is big enough to show that the genie is well and truly out of the bottle and gun control in the US is pretty much a non starter!

 

In fact it is worse

A large section of the U.S. Population argue that the problem is due to not enough guns

There should be more guns, Sandy Hook?, mummm the answer is to let primary school teacher carry guns, guns in the classroom

That is a mainstream view in many quarters

It is difficult to argue against such skewed logic

 

I think in the first grade they should get Glocks, then move up to AR15s by the time they graduate. Who could argue with that?

 

I don't doubt that this would be a great deal of fun, but this sort of firepower should not be in the hands of the general population!


Billed as a family event......

 

Home defense? At least these weapons are heavily restricted even in the USA and there are lots of hoops to jump through before ownership is possible. But it is possible.

 

I think this obsession with guns, and distrust in the government combined with rampant individualism, fixation with home defence - manifests itself in the resurgence of the Zombie genre - the walking dead, fear the walking dead, Resident Evil etc etc


I bet quite a few of those people shooting the guns in that YouTube clip are imagining a hoard of Zombies appearing from the bushes

in the same way that when looking back "Invasion of the Body Snatchers" was a manifestation of the worry of creeping communism

 

I think that's stretching a bit! The 'happiness is a warm gun' brigade are in the minority in the USA, most use guns to shoot clays, paper targets and for 'hunting' birds and animals. These shooters rightly shun the militias and the obsessives and are keen not to be mentioned in the same breath.

 

yes I agree Paben - and often something we don't understand coming form a relatively dense urbanised country

the USA is enormous with vast tracts of wilderness - and there is every reason to have hunting rifles

much in the same way as Canada

totally agree

 

You've also got to consider the regional differences across the US. The US is three times larger than the EU-15 (source).


You wouldn't liken British, Spanish, Greek, German and French cultures, and likewise urban DC is very different from rural Nebraska, from small town South Carolina, from suburban Boston.


Not everybody exercises the right to bear arms but there's a fierce passion to defend that right. Judging a foreign culture by your own values is never a good idea IMHO.