pretty much all creationist accept evolution, so can be labelled evolutionist

they just do some intellectual gymnastics in the brain and separate historical evolution from current "observable" evolution

 

Do they? What's your evidence for this, please?

As above.

 

Thanks for that, Jonny. Did you see my edit on the 'Church do you go' thread?

 

http://arstechnica.com/science/2014/...-on-evolution/

 

Ken Ham's a young earth creationist, what does that have to do with anything?

 

he accepts "evolution" in that is can be observed - observable science, bacteria evolving

he is by definition and evolutionist (just only since 6000 years ago)

in the same way you believe in a creator therefore you are a "creationist"

 

Sophistry.

 

lol, but you are a creationist?

 

and you wanted to debate "magic" - lol

 

If I'm speaking with someone who espouses scientism, then yes I'm a creationist so far as I believe in a creator. If I'm speaking with other creationists I am an old earth creationist as opposed to a young earth creationist. If I'm speaking to an old earth creationist I am a theistic evolutionist. It's churlish not to simply cut to the chase. As you know. Now define 'magic', please.

 

Sure did.

 

John 8:7

 

JT, did Mahatma Ghandi go to heaven or hell?

A crude question I know, but I expect the answer to be enlightening

 

...

 

Gandhi said, 'I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.' How true. He also spent a significant amount of time with Christian anarchist Leo Tolstoy and reprinted some of his works.

I do not know whether he confessed Christ in his heart, only God knows that, but if he did he'd find himself sitting at the feet of The Lord come Judgement Day.

 

I don't and that's owing to the Fermi paradox. I suspect you're going to answer to the contrary and that having attempted to prove your hypothesis you'll wish to demonstrate how the existence of said aliens disproves the truth of Christianity. In anticipation, even if intelligent life did exist elsewhere in the universe, whilst the foundations of the Bible would be rocked, it would remain standing.

 

Presumably Myra Hindly (the moors murderer) would get the "golden ticket"

She reaffirmed her faith and re asserted her Catholicism in the mid 80's

And was constantly ministered by a priest during her last few dying days - who read her her last rights

According to the rules of your club, she gets in doesn't she - but as you say the jury is out on Ghandi

 

And if he didn't?

 

If Myra Hindly repented and confessed the Lord then she'll be forgiven and will go to heaven. Gandhi, if having heard the word still denied the Lord, will have gone to hell.

Hell could be considered as an eternal separation from God. That works for me as I believe that God is love and that it necessarily and logically follows that a person who's devoid of faith in the Lord will be devoid of love after they've perished. Gandhi's earthly reward will be a place in the history books as one of life's good guys. History will judge Hindly rather differently.

 

See above.

 

I was a bible believing Christian, but later rejected it. That places me in the worst possible situation according to the book. However, I couldn't do the mental gymnastics I kept trying to do to believe and when I stepped back I didn't think the God of the bible was really someone I wanted to or should believe in. If that separation puts me in a lake of fire for all eternity, I won't be happy, but it would seem like taking out asteroid insurance and spending most of your salary on it whilst the salesman was ******** your wife on the commission.

 

so a forum analogy would be

"in before the lock"

 

Sure, although if one's heard (really heard) Christ's commandments and still fails to confess then one's rather locked the door from the inside and thrown away the key. It's all supposition, of course, and is ultimately between Gandhi and God.

 

With regards to the Fermi paradox as a way to "prove" that life here is unique in the whole universe, I would argue that the universe is teaming with life only that life itself on every planet hasn't evolved enough for interstellar travel despite the billions of years. As Earth's history has shown, numerous civilisations never get the chance to "fully" develop and many have been wiped out by disasters both natural and self inflicted. I think there is life is out there, however, for intelligent and sentient life to have evolved for interstellar travel could be rare and those that have would have countless planets to visit in the vastness of the universe.

 

or maybe evolved and then destroyed billions of years ago

after all the Dinosaurs contrary to the popular memes were an incredibly successful species

walking the earth for several hundred million years - we will do well to last a fraction of that time

 

I'll pray for you.

 

I am a Thomas. Except he had his evidence and so far I've not had mine. Why should I have to use faith to make such an important decision and if I cannot really believe it be eternally damned? Isn't faith just a method of constructing an argument that cannot be defeated? It seems that "God" is setting some of us up to be lake fuel.

 

Tell me JT. Did Jesus bum Joseph???

 

https://www.scoobynet.com/1020541-uf...ey-real-2.html

 

Do you think your conversion was real, John? I'm in the camp that says once saved, always saved. Surely when one receives and experiences bona fide regeneration via the grace of God, to backslide or, in your case, to become an apostate, is torment enough to make one want to charge back to the Lord. That separation and rebellion, the outright denial of a truth once held surely affords pain enough to fore warn of that which is to come.

As for you being a Thomas:

"Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed."

Were you once blessed or was it an emotional experience? A seed sewn on rocky ground?