hodgy0_2

Does not have to be anything so advanced, Chinese lanterns caused quite a stir in th UFO community - when they first started to be let of in the country side in the 90's

Roswell? - that's not a serious comment is it

ditchmyster

iTrader: (7)

The Universe is full of "Known Un-knows"

jonc

Lets start with the question "is there life elsewhere in the universe?" Given that our own medium sized Milky Way (about 120,000 light years in diameter) has over 200 billion stars (some of the larger galaxies containing over 100 trillion!), we have discovered only around 1800 exoplanets over the last hundred years or so. It is estimated our Milky Way galaxy contains around 100 billion exoplanets, this was extrapolated just by observing a tiny fraction of our night sky. It is estimated that there are up to 200 billion galaxies in the observable universe (about 92 billion light years across). When you look at these numbers, the probabitlity of Earth being the only planet containing life in the whole universe is pretty slim, next to infinitesimally small.

Now we ask the question has life evolved enough to have the ability to travel the vast distances between stars and planets just within our own Milky Way. It is estimated that the universe is around 14 billion years old and our Milky Way nearly as old, give or take 800 million years. Our solar system is around 4.5 billion years old and it has taken this long for life to reach this evolutionary stage where we are at now. The previous dominant life form on this earth (dinosaurs) roamed the earth for around 160 million years before extinction. Humans have existed for around 7 million years so far. Human kind and its intelligence has been nothing more than an infinitesimally small blip in the history of this universe. How long do we have left on this planet? Do we have enough time to evolve and the ingenuity to have the ability to travel to other stars and habitable planets before the next mass extiction event or before the our Sun consumes our Solar System? I'm guessing life elsewhere in this and other galaxies has/would face the same prospect.

JTaylor

Modern humans have 'only' been around for 100-200 thousand years.

hodgy0_2

yes, it is not only space - that is the problem - i.e. there is so much it

it is time as well, quite a lot of that too - and I am pretty sure we will not be around in 10 million years - let alone a 100 million

so if life is out there - (and I would bet odds on there is, the chances of it landing in Texas and deciding to abduct a drunk hillbilly are pretty small)

given the amount of space and time out there that is

DoZZa

iTrader: (4)

A lot of people dont really understand what a UFO actually is.

Its actually quite simple. a UFO is;

U = Unidentified
F = Flying
O = Object

That really does not always mean craft from another world. Aliens etc!

A UFO is simply something that has been spotted manoeuvring in the sky and cannot be identified or explained.

There are many different things that could be described as a UFO, a prototype aircraft of some type, a weather balloon, a flare. Or indeed the illusive craft from another world!

I have been following the UFO movement since I was a child. And I will share with you what I have deduced over the many years I have been studying this interesting subject.

1. 98% of what you see or hear, whether on the internet or in the media is bull****.

2. 2% of it has some substance or cannot be explained.

3. With todays technology and HD cameras being everywhere, you would expect to see a lot more evidence of unearthly beings visiting our planet. Yet there is very little real evidence. And what evidence there appears to be, is never clear, always a shaky pixelated image. Why with such wonderful cameras are we still not capturing the illusive UFO in HD glory?

4. Mathematics alone proves that the chances of Earth being the only planet in the universe to harbour intelligent life is basically impossible. But due to the vastness of the universe, the chances of making contact with other intelligent life forms are remote at best. But do remember that mathematics is truly the only universal language.

5. Even with all of the above and the odds against us. I still firmly believe that we are not alone in the universe, but have we been visited, are we still being visited by aliens? I really cant answer that question. But I keep an open mind.

But one thing we must understand is that we only know how science, physics and chemistry etc, work in our galaxy. Who is to say that a totally different set of rules applies in different parts of the universe?

If that is the case then all of our scientific beliefs cannot be applied throughout the universe.

And as for god. Well, just a fallacy isn't it?

JTaylor

"Where is everybody?" - the Fermi Paradox. Of course, it suits my view of the universe to endorse the notion that we are unique, yet 'rare earth' hypotheses and the 'great filter' offer logical and plausible arguments that we are, in fact, the only way for the universe to know itself.

Turbohot

Oh, definitely! But don't you think that we are being pedantic here? UFO is a term used for alien driven aircrafts for years. Now if we are trying to tell the world what it literally means, it seems a bit meh.

I agree with that. That is why when any alien believer gives it large by slating God, it seems ironic.

Sure.

I am just thinking if we can call them just Alien Driven Aircrafts i.e. ADA. Now you may say how we can say that they are driven by aliens?

Well, anyone who you don't know well is an alien, in many ways. So, that sort that issue.

It is considered by some theorists that drug induced hallucinations are not complete nonsense, although it could be drug induced psychosis. If favour of the former, when your ego is broken down while drugged, you may see things that others don't. Now just because others don't, it doesn't mean those things don't exist. They do exist for the ones who see them.

Example of that is when some introvert has had a few drinks. He or she talks about things that he/she won't blurt out whilst sober. The long held mystery becomes apparent; to others, at least. He/she may not remember sod all after coming off it, but you know what I mean. That's the internal treasure exposure. Same can be applied to the outer atmosphere when one can confront some mysteries that others can't see due to them being blinded by their fantastic ego.

Let's face it that when your ego is intact i.e. while sober, you deny the most obvious things, that's because you think you are fvvking ace!

hodgy0_2

this is the problem though - zero evidence of aliens living amongst us, unless you include "Men in Black"

(laughing as I typed that it is soo propostorous)

why these utterances given the time of day!!!!!!!!

Devildog

Are you trying to suggest that intelligent life has been created on this one?

That's what's wrong with the human race. We are so caught up in our own self importance that to contemplate another "life" form which may be massively more advanced on all levels than we are is beyond comprehension to many.

We need to think outside the box. There may be a species out there for whom travelling through infinite space and/or time is akin to our flying from the uk to the States on holiday.

Just because we humans don't have any comprehension of how that could be achieved doesn't mean someone/thing else can't do it either.

Not having a go at you, by the way - I agree 100%.

Yes UFO's exist. Whether a human being has seen one or not is, however, another matter.

Devildog

Statistically, given the size of the known universe, there is a far, far greater likelyhood that alien's are real than there is that God exists.

Probably more evidence of alien existence than God's existence too.

Style

iTrader: (1)

UFOs are real. Aliens or anything like that are NOT.

The term UFO, just means unidentified. As above, didn't the aliens create god, while they drank wine with Noah on his crowded ark with over a million different species on it LOL

RobJenks

But what about the un-known unknowns ?

hodgy0_2

no one knows about them

jonc

What Carl Sagan said, I take it to mean that through our consiousness and experiences that we are a part of the universe and therefore through us is aware of itself; as we are made of the matter as old as the universe, when we look the heavens and see the stars, we, as part of the universe, are aware of the star that sent the photons that reach our eyes, there is no distiction between the matter that makes us and the matter that made up the star that sent the photon, we are in essence the universe as is the star.

The only problem I have with this notion is that the "universe" is limited to only being aware of itself here on earth. With the probability that life exists else where in the universe, "we" are probably not the only way for the universe to know itself, for example, just because you are not aware of rain in a distant country, doesn't mean those rain clouds don't exist.

jayallen

iTrader: (31)

Make of this what you will..

Paben

iTrader: (5)

Just check out our own human history down the years. There has not been a single recorded incident of a superior 'race' arriving and affording the locals equal rights. The Spanish and various others in south america who managed to wipe out entire civilisations, the Red Indians who all but suffered the same fate, the Brits who marched about all over the world subjugating whole populations - the list goes on.

Were an alien race to arrive on earth, their superiority defined by their arrival, we'd be doomed to slavery at best. If they were already here we'd know all about it. Let's hope we get to them before they come to us.

JTaylor

This is not proved. I'm an advocate of the Rare Earth Hypothesis. Take a look at this should you ever get the chance. Alien life was one of the (many) things I grappled with before becoming a theist.

http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1..._Is_Everybody_

stipete75

Wormholes?
There are a couple of pretty good vids of supposed wormholes caught on camera.
Norway in 2009, Russia in 2012 and one over California a couple weeks ago.
Real or not the vid does look quite impressive.

jonc

Proof of existence is not always required.

The thing with life, it can be sustained in the most harshest of environments; life thrives around hydrothermal vents deep within the ocean under huge pressure where no sunlight exists and in temperatures hot enough to melt lead to micro-organisms living in permafrost at -25c.

As to why the universe isn't teeming with life, well, it is probable that it is. As to whether life has evolved to an advanced stage to have the ability to travel the vast distances to systems not just within our own galaxy but also between the galaxies is another matter. Then you have to consider whether "they" would actually be looking for us and be able to find Earth; looking for and actually finding Earth in the vastness of the universe would make looking for an infinitesimal needle in an gargantuan haystack an inordinately simple task

JTaylor

BoozyDave

iTrader: (8)

I think the same as you

we are an intelligent life form (some of us more than others ), and I do agree that there are other planets with vastly superior intelligence, like you say, they can travel between planets like we travel to the states.

scientists always say an atmosphere has to be like ours for life to exist. what if beings on another planet need to breathe carbon monoxide or drink sulphuric acid?

when tests were carried out at the north pole, a 50mm core hole was drilled 2 miles deep. when under a microscope there were small insects found in the ice. But, with the heat of the light, the ice melted and the insects started moving. how can they be frozen for over 25,000 years and then defrost and come back to life?
If life can survive on our planet in conditions like have been mentioned, surely it can evolve and survive on another planet

hodgy0_2

I don't think they say quite that - it is the presence of liquid water that most excites astronomers (and it THE central key element to life on earth)

That is why IO is so interesting, it is reckoned to have liquid water

But I basically agree too, who knows what life is like on other planets / astral bodies

lozgti1

Hadron Collider was a bit crap......

JT,do you not think God doesn't just preside over earth?

How on earth can we be the only 'beings' (I will avoid saying aliens!) in this Infiniteness.And indeed the cleverest cookies within (sic) it

Geezer

Life is probably common, complex, multi-cellular life less so, large life, like mammals, incredibly rare, technologically advanced life able to leave it's own planet, we're probably down to some quite small numbers (in percentage terms, but quite possibly in absolute terms too).

Then you have space. It's big. I don't think most people grasp how big it is. Going to the moon, or even Mars is one thing, but going out of our solar system, even, is another. Travelling across the galaxy, well, that is proper tough!

The distance from Earth to the sun is one astronomical unit (AU). If we say 1cm = 1AU, then the edge of the edge of the solar system is 1000m away. Not 1000cm, but 1000m, that's 1km. Our nearest star is 2.5km away. And so on. We may develop better technology, but as Scotty said "ye canna change the laws of physics", so not only will a civilisation never travel faster than light, it's highly improbable they will get much more than about 30-50% of the speed of light. The time to get anywhere is immense. Generation after generation would live and die in space. Why?

Even of you say they travel in suspended animation, the technological challenge keeping them alive for that long, successfully navigating across light years of space, landing on a suitable planet, resources, etc etc. Just doesn't make any sense.

So we move on to worm holes. Physics allows wormholes, it's likely they exist. However, the wormholes of science fiction are just that, fiction. The wormholes that mathematics/physics predicts would certainly not allow travel through them.

Things like warp drive or jump drive etc. are purely the products of science fiction literature, with no actual substance behind them.

So, what is the likely hood of overcoming all that, to chance upon a planet that has only been radiating detectable waves for about 100 years? Someone else may have heard them, but it's take a few tens of thousands of years for them to get here (if they can be bothered).

Ok, we cannot discount some novel physics that may allow for quicker travel between stars, but the notion of races whizzing around the galaxy like in Star Trek, is simply preposterous.

lozgti1

But I'm sure many,many generations ago,people would have said the same thing about going to the moon,rockets,space shuttles ,the internet

I sincerely believe we do not have understood all of physics and it is now a closed book.No way

hodgy0_2

A fact that I fined chastening, and one that runs contrary to some people views

dinosaurs were incredibly successful species and lasted for a 150 million years or so

Humanity will last a minuscule fraction of that, were are an infinitesimal speck not only in space but also in time

jonc

I agree, there are a lot of things that we do not understand and perhaps what we know with regards to the laws of physics or any other mathamatical construct or theories is still in its infancy. For a being to have evolved and to have the knowledge, intellect and inginuity for interstella travel and navigation covering the vastness of the universe, why would Earth and it's inhabitants hold such interest for these beings? We would be so primative in comparison, like how a colony of termites might hold your interest. Would you think an individual termite be aware and have an understanding of your existance? In this instance we are the termites.

Geezer

I didn't say physics was a closed book, but some things don't change. Civilisations may well make interstellar travel less 'impossible' than it is now, but the window of opportunity to develop that sort of technology is very limited. How many races would last long enough?

It may be possible, but what I am saying if it is, it's probably very rare, the possibility of them visiting here is even rarer, and the likelihood of several of them being here at the same time is infantessimal.

JTaylor

I've come to reason that He is providentially divine and sovereign throughout the universe. Psalm 103:19.