LuckyWelshchap

jameswrx

iTrader: (4)

They must earn some serious money from it, but why not. I don't see anyone seriously undercutting anyone else, so maybe the price is justified. I've been on group mapping days where they've got to be earning a couple of grand for a days work, nice.

But also there must be a case of 'make hay while the sun shines' as these cars aren't exactly getting more plentiful and the rate they get written off or broken for parts there's only a finite amount of time the mapping industry can support X amount of mappers.

The Rig

iTrader: (13)

True, but dont forget, when the scooby/evo/Jap tuning scene ends, the diesel empire is gathering force and the diesel car is alot easier to Map to unleash that extra torque etc.

when 1 scene ends, another begins lol

LuckyWelshchap

This situation (and thread) reminds me a lot of what happened when the PC/IT revolution occurred.

No-one was (or could be) properly qualified at the outset. Some learned their trade and became very good, some thought they could cut it because they upgraded/repaired their own PC. Some simply jumped on the bandwagon, knowing that customers didn't have a clue and as long as the problem was fixed, or further blame attached elsewhere, then the money was properly earned ie. paid for the time etc. put into investigating and fixing a problem.

I once worked with someone who worked for a national retailer.
He was the technical guy in one of its stores and knew his stuff.
He asked his boss (the Technical Manager) how many years he'd been in the industry and got the reply '3 months, this is my first job in PCs. I was a hospital porter for 23 years'. That was in 2002.

Another - person takes the family PC to the local shop/'expert'. It's running slow and keeps saying 'low disk space'.
The shop returns the PC running quicker and only 15% full.
Unfortunately she wants me to recover her son's entire GCSE projects - whic of course were lost when the 'expert' formatted the HDD without either asking or advising her of the consequences.

Now, both of these businesses have plenty of satisfied customers but I'd say all of those were satisfied with the outcome but I would ask how many of those customers actually know if they had value for money?
I'd also say that most of those who had bad experiences were people unfortunate enough not to have a 'standard' problem and depended upon someone without the in-depth knowledge of IT to be able to diagnose and fix something unusual, perhaps even a situation they themselves had not encountered before.

I've had people come to me and say 'one of the men who works with my husband down the factory wiped his own PC and offered to do it for us, but now we can't get it to come on at all. He thinks it's knackered'.
I then reinstall Windows properly, get them up and running - Internet etc. and then say 'My next door neighbour services his car. I might be happy for him to change my brakes etc. but would I let him change the clutch, and would I ask him to tell me what's wrong if it doesn't start?'

Again, with no aspersions whatsoever on anyone, it seems that mapping is similarly one of those areas of new age technology where you have to be careful and try to judge what category of 'expert' you're asking help from.

I'm sure we can all relate posts (postive and negative) in this thread to PC repairs, garages, plumbers, builders etc. etc.
Some professionals are proven with everything, even the unexpected or out-of-the-ordinary, some with standard practice and regrettably (though not in this thread imo) there will be some who are not worthy of being termed 'professional'.
Every comment however, helps others build a picture of where in the scheme of things practitioners are.

The Rig

iTrader: (13)

Only your Opinion of course, but wrong in this case

rooferman

iTrader: (6)

Groupbuy mapping day pmsl !

Whenever I've had my car mapped its taken most of the day sometimes into the evening !

The Rig

iTrader: (13)

True !

My Original Map i talk about in this thread was completed in around 30 mins Hence the Outcome i guess.

Carnut

I know next to nothing about mapping but 30mins is a joke, I would be expecting a few hours at least for £300-£500.

jazzyjembreaze

iTrader: (11)

That's because your 30 min map is a duplicate , not tailored , adj, dialled , to your car 's specific needs & requirements.... It's a big minefield out there

Tidgy

eh

ditchmyster

iTrader: (7)

Ouch, "Bodge it and Scarper" springs to mind.

BadBadLeeroyBrown

Martyn Jeffery spent over twice that on checks before getting anywhere near the rollers with mine!!

maca1983

iTrader: (3)

hahahahahaha what a moron (offense intended )

your giving your personal experience that differs to so many on this thread and it makes no odds if the my experience is 1st,2nd,3rd or 4th hand the outcome remains the same, so run along nappy ****

BrownPantsRacing

iTrader: (6)

That's just completely rude and unnecessary. I told you quite clearly I meant no offense by my previous post. I don't know why I'm suprised though as your uninformed, poorly constructed, grammatically incorrect, pre-pubescent sentences are nothing but laughable!

You are certainly keeping the adults amused with your ididiocy. Well done you! X x x

maca1983

iTrader: (3)

maca1983

iTrader: (3)

xxx

Coleyo2c

Duncan mapped mine yesterday and I'm over the moon so don't really know what else to say. He was professional and fitted my 3 port bcs for free. Cars a 2004 wrx.

maca1983

iTrader: (3)

This thread is not saying every car he maps is duff or going to break, its just stating that there have been issues with his mapping.

Enjoy the new power fella

Infected by sti

iTrader: (6)

Is it still running

Everybody will have opinions you will never be able to change that This is for me the first negative thread I've personally seen towards Duncan and I know a good few personally who have used him, none of which so far (touches wood) have even battered an eyelid with problems, long may they continue in the same manor.

dynamix

iTrader: (3)

lol

I haven't been hiding chaps, just really busy working and when I have some time available... reading and digesting what has been said before responding once. Please excuse the length of this post.

To cut to the chase... obviously the OP (Dean) had a problem with a stepped power delivery on the car, which was running mafless under the older version second hand ESL that he bought. I mapped it (it took a lot more than 30 minutes Dean) using this old version of ESL which doesn't have the ability to datalog exactly where this stepped power was happening so trying to identify the cause of this stepping (only in 1st and 2nd gear) is very much a trial and error basis. He couldn't/wouldn't at the time try and sell the old esl and upgrade to the new version.

I tried numerous things such as changing the map sensor (and pipework), boost solenoid and liaising with ESL as to why this could be happening as neither me nor them had seen this before on the old ESL 1.2a boards.

I believed that we had solved this as I hadn't heard anything from Dean for ages after the last visit until I got a message on here to say that his car had failed emissions for its MOT. It 'had' to be the map apparently as it had never failed before (even it transpires that the lambda sensor was 8 yrs old iirc). Despite me suggesting that it would be good to check the lambda sensor it was obvious that Dean was convinced that it was the map at fault so I drove 2.5 hours out of my way to get there to discover ... yes the lambda sensor was failing. Unfortunately it wasn't happening like Dean states where it should ie the fueling reverts to the map when failed (they only do that if there is no reading from the lambda), it was completely misreading the lambda and believing that it was massively lean in closed loop adding 25% extra fuel in all closed loop areas and subsequently drowning the lambda readings for the MOT.

As Dean had the car booked in for an MOT the next morning and was desperate for that to be done (couldn't cancel etc) so unplugging the lambda was not an option (cel light causes fail at most mot stations) I said I would trim out the fuel the lambda sensor to enable it to pass on emissions and get the certificate. 'yes great' so thatis what I did. Dean at this point paid me £20 for me to do this trip (2.5 hours drive and 30 mins or so connecting and trimming the fueling for the mot at idle and fast idle).... ok well at least it covered my diesel and kept a customer happy... or I thought until on the way home he texted and said he was gonna buy a new sensor and cancel the mot and can i come back for free to change it back to the original map. ? It wouldn't be an issue for me if I was anywhere near the area but as I wasn't and it would be a 4-5 hour round trip for me i said I would charge for diesel - again not a penny for my time.... anyway that was a rip off apparently even though it was not my fault that his lambda sensor failed

So again to help out.. I emailed him his original map and the software and he was going to make a usb lead to do the job to save him the £30 in my diesel.

He couldn't get his usb lead to work so in the end I believe he bought the new version of esl that I had been saying to him all along would help locate and solve the issue. BUT from viewing the maps that he posted he is running now he is running it in MAF based mode - the issue would not exist in that mode so has not been solved IMO... but I digress.

As for Mickywrx - I can't remember meeting you ever, certainly never mapped your car nor have I ever fixed laptops apart from my own so I really don't know who you are thinking of But you really seem to hate me - that is fine if you want to but please get some facts right occasionally

All in all, like any business, I can only do things about issues I am made aware of directly rather than hearsay or second hand rumours based on something a friend of a friend said happened to their childminders cousin As such, all I would say is that if any customers unsure of their maps that I have done please feel free to contact me to check them over FOC assuming the car is in the same spec as originally mapped. Happy to do this on the dyno at SRR at the end of august if you want an independent view on it too. Text or mobile is the best bet as I don't get on here much.

BBB3

iTrader: (7)

Exciting thread.

Darrell@Scoobyworx

iTrader: (5)

Always 2 sides to every story.

What people don't like to accept is the reason there might be a problem could be due to faulty parts on thier car which isn't the mappers fault.

The Rig

iTrader: (13)

Im impressed with the time taken to reply to this thread Duncan, A lot QUICKER than to any of my phone calls, emails, texts or facebook messages.

Ive read your response, Its full of errors just like your map was.


Just to pick on a few points, so can you explain why you left a mafless configuration with the maf connected ?????

Can you explain why you claim to have fitted parts, MAP sensor and Boost solenoid ?????????? ? I don't think so !!! I fitted EVERY part to my car prior to any visit from you !!!!!!!!! No parts fitted were by you im afraid, maybe somebody elses car your confused with ??!!?!?

Can you explain why you travelled 2.5 hrs out of your way to visit me when you told me you had a car to Map in Bristol on this said occasion which is 35 mins away from me ????

Surely any "pro" mapper such as yourself would know setting an AFR of 22 would cause the car to run like **** when cold ???? and surely on this knowledge this AFR wouldn't be set !! I even asked in a previous thread should I replace lambda and you advised, no, I shall test and advise !!!!! So setting AFR to 22 should be known to a pro that the lambda is faulty and tell me to buy new lambda and leave the map as it was then I wouldn't of had a car that wouldn't run when cold, since you set AFR to 22 !!!!

I paid a total of £100 in extra visits due to your incompetence, every time nothing worked , boost solenoid, was never faulty, map sensor, was never faulty, coil packs, never faulty, the fault, your error of leaving maf connected on a mafless setup.

I had already paid you for your "time" from the 1st mapping session,so no, your not a hero by not charging for time as you never set the car up properly in the 1st place, even tho I paid an extra £100 in total for your "time", great value for money I think

You were made aware of my issues the day AFTER the map and made it very very very hard to get you back to look at it.

I have set my car up on MAF and MAFLESS and it was faultless when done properly, so again, your lame excuses hold no bounds.

Buying the NEW ESL software DID NOT FIX MY FAULT, as when I bought the new software and lead, I fixed the ORIGINAL MAP on the old board 1st, by disconnecting MAF and putting in the resistor etc, want to know the outcome ? Doing a Proper job and the result was flawless boost throughout the gears , if I managed to work it out, why didn't you

In short, I look forward to receiving my refund from you

The Rig

iTrader: (13)

There were no faulty parts on the car as explained above, again.

The Rig

iTrader: (13)

Here we go, a nice reminder Duncan,

A few quotes from the thread

Duncan
"im over that way next week dean"


Me
"Hi Bud, cheers for the input, would it be better to source a new lambda and then tweak the MAP or shall i just wait and see if you can sort it with current lambda next week ?

cheers"




Duncan
"Let me check it out first - if that is it then i should be able to tell you and it would just be a case of fitting and getting mot"



https://www.scoobynet.com/engine-man...ter-remap.html

Carnut

I wounder if anyone will be man enough to say sorry, I suppose I played a vey small part based on others information but even so I should have known better.

I normally try to take these threads with a pinch of salt and like wise the threads that blow smoke up another's ****. For some reason this time I got dragged in and told myself that I would avoid said mapper should the opportunity arise. But after reading Duncan's reply I was reminded that theres two sides to ever story and would now give said mapper a ring if for what ever reason it made sense.

I think if you want a opinion on Duncan the best thing to do would be to phone him and let him be the one to influence your decision.

Sorry for the thread Duncan.

LuckyWelshchap

Fair comment.

Darrell@Scoobyworx

iTrader: (5)

I feel this may never get resolved but i hope it does for everybodies sakes :-)

Blue by You

iTrader: (23)

Let's face it, the only people this thread really concerns is the OP and Duncan.
The rest is just shrapnel.

Andy Stevens

I'm a director of ESL for those that don't know me.

While I generally enjoy posting in scoobynet and helping out where I can, the witchhunt threads get me down as I feel there are better ways of resolving things.

I am glad you are happy with your car now Dean, but some of the accusations levelled at Duncan aren't fair.

IIRC Duncan was mapping on an earlier secondhand v1.2 board which doesn't have the datalogging capability of the later boards like the v2.0 Dean used, making problems harder to track down.

When going from an exponential MAF sensor to a linear MAP sensor to measure load the fuel map changes, especially in the idle area. We generally recommend switching to decimal if going mafless to avoid confusion, but that explains the lean AFR. You should have seen that yourself when switching load inputs Dean.

Owner mappers have the advantage of living with the car day to day and spending unlimited time refining their map.

Full time mappers don't have that luxury and use the experience that mapping hundreds of cars gives them to offset that. Owner mappers can get a feel for the amount of work that goes into mapping a car and can probably appreciate better than most that the fee is not unreasonable.

Whilst mapping a high volume of cars any full time mapper will get the occasional challenging job, but the vast majority of end users seem very happy with the results.

For the record, Duncan maps all my personal cars, including the 547hp ESL demo on a stock location turbo and my daily driver 535d, transforming both of them.

I really don't want to read or post again on this thread apart from to say we are very happy with our working relationship with RaceDynamix.