Shaid

I think you should be channeling your energy into condemning some of the barbarism committed by the folk of your religion. Pot calling kettle black

Turbohot

Yes, there is a difference between one's individual accountability for one's own actions and collective responsibility for the actions committed on the name of some sort of code of practice; followed by a number of people.

Yes, in my opinion, too, Faith is subject to a collective responsibility. More so where the faith institutions bring people from that faith together, and promote the goodness of their faith.

Shaid

I think the link below answers your question much better than i possibly could.

http://time.com/96006/a-response-to-...ng-boko-haram/

J4CKO

iTrader: (1)

Islam, there can type it...

Were the troubles in Ireland down to Islam, did Islam exterminate millions of Jews ?

No, it was power mad blokes.

Type_R_1984

That's also true but we can't ignore the fact that Islam is not a peaceful religion.
It's teachings are to kill and destroy all that won't convert to Islam.

dpb

Is it really. ..!!

JTaylor

Like Mohammad?

hodgy0_2

yup, Paddy Mohammad

Devildog

Very politely put.

Personally I think Shaid just (t)rolls out the same irrelevant repetative **** with no understanding, substance or context whilst trying to compare two completely non comparable events to defend why Muslims won't condemn attrocities carried out in the name of Islam, instead blaming individuals.

An0n0m0us had it right with

Shaid

The truth is always hard to swallow. Better to muddy it with a bit of ad-homism and complete bull**** in the hope that folk who share the same opinion of you will give you some virtual 'likes'.

Wurzel

iTrader: (1)

The difference is this was not carried out in the name of christianity or Britain, where as these muslim extremists always claim they are doing what ever they do in the name of Islam.

I agree with what Swati is trying to say and no one seems to be agreeing with.

Muslims need to sort their own mess out and stop these idiots murdering and kidnapping people in the name of Islam. Only when Muslims are seen to be attempting to put a stop to the extremism will they start being believed as a religion of peace.

Carnut

It don't make much difference to me if the Muslims think they should or should not be held responsible for these actions. If somebody has the chance to make a difference and stop these people from piggy backing on a religion as a whey to hide and defend themselves then they should try to do so.

Martin2005

You're very brave with other people's lives

Carnut

as ive just said on another thread,your a scumbag troll

Martin2005

Or maybe I'm just right?

Shaid

I'm afraid i disagree with you there. Whilst in uniform a soldier is representing GB and his action will be seen in the context of 'in the name of'. Just like Lee Rigbys killers done what they done. It was all seen in the name of Islam when the real motivation was political. You can't have it both ways. If you want it both ways then please grant Muslims the same privilege.

In the killers own words.

Pulled from http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-25424290

"It was the Iraq war that affected me the most," Adebolajo told the jury in Court Two of the Old Bailey. "I saw Operation Shock and Awe and it disgusted me. The way it was reported was as if it was praiseworthy, saying. 'Look at the might and awe of the West and America.' Every one of those bombs was killing people."

Folk accuse us normal Muslims of not doing enough to condemn bad folk. The so called extremists accuse us normal folk of not doing enough to help our co-religionists that are affected by war, etc. etc...

I have no intention of trying to educate folk about how Islam is the ROP. I'm bored of that ****. If someone wants to believe it is a religion of evil/hate/etc... let them. It's a free country. Some of my ancestors fought for their right to do so

Shaid

Exaclty.... hence why i say that when some beheading type comes onto SN or turns up at the next meet i attend i'll publicly give them a roasting.

Devildog

This ^^^

Devildog

And not this ^^^

Shaid, the truth is you are way out of your depth trying to argue this entire point, as evidenced by your continual references to wikipedia and the rest.

If anyone has a bad case of denial and bullsh1t its not me

Carnut

sorry I should have said, so should everyone else do so if given the chance as well. That's what I was thinking anyway.

The Trooper 1815

iTrader: (31)

Hmmm, all the Catholic Priests/Bishops raping/abusing young boys and girls is not a great advert for Christianity is it?

The catholic Church have hidden it for years and is now praying on vulnerable third world nations to perpetuate the myth of religion. It seem to get away with taking children of young girlsselling them to the highest bidder, then putting the girls to lives of servitude in laundries in South Ireland right upto the early 80's.

All religions should be treated like any other mental illness, with therapy.

Shaid

Okay point noted. I'll go hunt for Bin Laden right after my evening tea.

So according to your logic referencing a point you are making by using bona fida credible links is a sign of denial.... anyway.... enough of this going forwards and backwards with the insults...

Shaid

Any religion will prey on the vulnerable, and weak, and stupid, and those who don't know any better. The thing with converting people to religion is that once the conversion has taken place. You are no longer of interest anymore. A bit like a car salesman fighting for your business. Once the sale is made. You can then **** off for all he cares. Pretty much same with religion.

An0n0m0us

Whilst I agree with what you are saying it was not done under the agreement of the nation's law/courts and in the name of religious beliefs and therefore not the same thing. It was criminal and hidden which is why they got away with it for so long.

The point here and what Shaid is blatantly missing is that the story in the OP is deemed perfectly legal and publicly acknowledged as being carried out in the name of Islam under the laws of that country which are governed by Islamic law.

It's not some rogue soldiers raping and pillaging who thankfully were eventually caught and suitably punished, it's not depraved priests hiding behind closed doors sexually absusing the innocent - this is a country's laws and courts ordering this sentence - putting to death a Woman simply for changing her beliefs from Islam to Christianity and marrying a Christian man. Their Islaminc laws deem her 'crime' to be punishable by death even though she actually hasn't committed any crime. It's Islam once again saying if you turn your back on us you will be killed.

What a tolerant and peaceful religion.

Shaid

Well i can't argue with that. The apostasy laws are daft and so is pretty much most of the rulers of the ME and Africa. Strange how the rulers are using their version of Islam to oppress their own people.

Thankfully the apostasy rule although has been acknowledged as part of Islam is not actually ordered in the Quran.

http://www.islamicperspectives.com/apostasy1.htm

Of course with every website i can find that strengthens my view you can find one that can strengthen yours.

The Trooper 1815

iTrader: (31)

The work houses where done with the knowledge of the law, they allowed the work houses to carry on until the 1980's and governed them! What rights did the women have? There was no such thing as spousal rape in thge UK until the 70's, liberal christian law eh!

The Catholic Church have know for years that the abuse of children was taking place but did nothing. They have laws in place but did **** all about it.

Does the christian bible state in one of the made up piles of tripe that for whatever reason individuals are cast out into the desert? That's pretty much a death sentence as is the "an eye for an eye". The Saudi's never get the same bad press because we are sucking up, they have oil and wealth. What happens when the mad African Muslim nations who sell us oil perform random acts as part of their constitution, do we stop buying their oil?

The world is f**king mad due to deluded religious fools.

stipete75

Lol, Adebolajo works for MI5, thought everyone knew that! He's a ****e actor too and it shows.

Maz

iTrader: (34)

Martin2005

I still don't understand the mechanism by which you think Muslims can rise up and sort out the extreme elements.

In many ways they are fighting this by getting on with their everyday lives, despite the intimidation. Remember that an order of magnitde more Muslims are killed by Islamic extremist than any other cast creed or religion killed by these nutters.

Let's use an everyday example of your logic

Let's use Rottweiler owners as an example. The vast majority are good, responsible people who'd be horrified at the thought of their pet hurting anyone. You are clearly in this camp.

So next time some chav's Rottie set about maiming a child should I expect you to 'do something about it' - or will you just get all defensive, and grumpy that all owner are getting tarred with the same brush, as per usual?

'It's not the dog fault, it's the owner', well in this case 'it's not the religion fault, it's the nutters'

stipete75

It's religion that turns normal children into nutters.
Poor rotties getting used as examples in a negative light again.
Typical subliminal consumer mind control in action.