Another shining example of Islamic 'law' in the wonderful World we all live in
21 May 2014, 06:10 PM
#121
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I'm not picking on dogs - merely using an apt example of Devil Dog 'responsible rottie owners' own logic
21 May 2014, 06:31 PM
#122
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Martin, you are too missing the critical point here. The sentence has been passed down by a nations courts and handed out under Islamic law. This isn't some random nutter, it's a ruling Government who has agreed with and allowed it to stand. The ones who should be taking a stand are the Government's of other Islamic countries and denouncing this ruling.
The fact is they aren't standing up and denouncing it so the World can hear it, it's just being allowed to happen under the name of Islam and no other Islamic Governments give two hoots.
That's what speaks volumes about Islam.
The fact is they aren't standing up and denouncing it so the World can hear it, it's just being allowed to happen under the name of Islam and no other Islamic Governments give two hoots.
That's what speaks volumes about Islam.
21 May 2014, 06:42 PM
#123
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Martin, you are too missing the critical point here. The sentence has been passed down by a nations courts and handed out under Islamic law. This isn't some random nutter, it's a ruling Government who has agreed with and allowed it to stand. The ones who should be taking a stand are the Government's of other Islamic countries and denouncing this ruling.
The fact is they aren't standing up and denouncing it so the World can hear it, it's just being allowed to happen under the name of Islam and no other Islamic Governments give two hoots.
That's what speaks volumes about Islam.
The fact is they aren't standing up and denouncing it so the World can hear it, it's just being allowed to happen under the name of Islam and no other Islamic Governments give two hoots.
That's what speaks volumes about Islam.
My point was more general about the idea that the average muslim man on the street is not in any kind of a position to do anything about the nutters in their midst.
I totally agree with you about the lack of condemnation from some other muslim countries.
21 May 2014, 08:47 PM
#126
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Surat 5 verse 51
O you who have believed, do not take the Jews and the Christians as allies. They are [in fact] allies of one another. And whoever is an ally to them among you - then indeed, he is [one] of them. Indeed, Allah guides not the wrongdoing people.
To me this says Muslims can't be friends with non Muslims.
Surat 9 verse 5
And when the sacred months have passed, then kill the polytheists wherever you find them and capture them and besiege them and sit in wait for them at every place of ambush.
Yep kill all who won't convert to Islam.
Again
Fight those who do not believe in Allah or in the Last Day and who do not consider unlawful what Allah and His Messenger have made unlawful and who do not adopt the religion of truth from those who were given the Scripture - [fight] until they give the jizyah willingly while they are humbled.
O you who have believed, do not take the Jews and the Christians as allies. They are [in fact] allies of one another. And whoever is an ally to them among you - then indeed, he is [one] of them. Indeed, Allah guides not the wrongdoing people.
To me this says Muslims can't be friends with non Muslims.
Surat 9 verse 5
And when the sacred months have passed, then kill the polytheists wherever you find them and capture them and besiege them and sit in wait for them at every place of ambush.
Yep kill all who won't convert to Islam.
Again
Fight those who do not believe in Allah or in the Last Day and who do not consider unlawful what Allah and His Messenger have made unlawful and who do not adopt the religion of truth from those who were given the Scripture - [fight] until they give the jizyah willingly while they are humbled.
Last edited by Type_R_1984; 21 May 2014 at 08:57 PM.
22 May 2014, 07:10 AM
#129
I think you can quote from all the various religious scriptures from all religions parts where they condone killing, an eye for an eye etc, so IMO they're all as bad as one another and have no place in modern society.
The problem lies with all the nut jobs on BOTH sides that pick and chose the various parts to suit their own agenda, which is basically human nature, the sooner we all exterminate one another the better it will be for the rest of the creatures that share this planet with us, unfortunately we'll probably take them out too while we're doing it.
The problem lies with all the nut jobs on BOTH sides that pick and chose the various parts to suit their own agenda, which is basically human nature, the sooner we all exterminate one another the better it will be for the rest of the creatures that share this planet with us, unfortunately we'll probably take them out too while we're doing it.
22 May 2014, 08:32 AM
#130
22 May 2014, 09:42 AM
#131
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I still don't understand the mechanism by which you think Muslims can rise up and sort out the extreme elements.
In many ways they are fighting this by getting on with their everyday lives, despite the intimidation. Remember that an order of magnitde more Muslims are killed by Islamic extremist than any other cast creed or religion killed by these nutters.
Let's use an everyday example of your logic
Let's use Rottweiler owners as an example. The vast majority are good, responsible people who'd be horrified at the thought of their pet hurting anyone. You are clearly in this camp.
So next time some chav's Rottie set about maiming a child should I expect you to 'do something about it' - or will you just get all defensive, and grumpy that all owner are getting tarred with the same brush, as per usual?
'It's not the dog fault, it's the owner', well in this case 'it's not the religion fault, it's the nutters'
In many ways they are fighting this by getting on with their everyday lives, despite the intimidation. Remember that an order of magnitde more Muslims are killed by Islamic extremist than any other cast creed or religion killed by these nutters.
Let's use an everyday example of your logic
Let's use Rottweiler owners as an example. The vast majority are good, responsible people who'd be horrified at the thought of their pet hurting anyone. You are clearly in this camp.
So next time some chav's Rottie set about maiming a child should I expect you to 'do something about it' - or will you just get all defensive, and grumpy that all owner are getting tarred with the same brush, as per usual?
'It's not the dog fault, it's the owner', well in this case 'it's not the religion fault, it's the nutters'
Shaid has been attempting to compare general attrocities committed by people who may or may not be of a different faith with attrocities committed in the name of Islam.
In the first group, and the example given by Shaid, there is/was no religious significance - but that fairly significant fact appears completely lost on him. My issue is with attrocities committed because of a particular faith.
Stamping out extremeism is no simple task. Of course its not. Perhaps dragging the Quran into the 21st century might help. Delete all the references to voilence against opposing faiths. Acceptability of live and let live. That all are equal despite what they chose to do or believe. How any sane and peaceful individual could argue against that is beyond comprehension, yet I suspect that Muslims accross the globe would be horrified at the thought of such changes to the text.
Just because its supposedly unchanged from its original from does not make it right.
Or perhaps the wives of individuals like those in the picture below should just say "right, wind it in or no sex for you Muhammad"
Which would be funny, except they would probably be killed for doing so.
What we have is a religion with a fundimental set of beliefs that it is "right", and all else is "wrong" and with no tolerance of others.
Your dog anaolgy is, in this context, flawed (possibly because you're misunderstanding my position on this)
I'm not saying that all muslims are bad. Far from it. But their "faith" is often used to justify attrocities in a way that no other faith is. Its not the people I have a problem with. Its a set of rules that "justifies" horrific crimes.
Bad owners of bad dogs are not bad owners because of any "faith" or set of rules. I doubt that religion ever comes into it. You might as well use the same analogy about cars because I drive.
But I do, and have done, something about it when I see any aggressive dog of any breed. Breed clubs are doing what they can to stop irresponsible breeding.
22 May 2014, 07:52 PM
#132
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28 May 2014, 12:15 AM
#133
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-27586067
No mention of condemnation by Muslim states then, or in fact by any Muslim authority, just the West as usual standing up for human rights. Here is a perfect opportunity for those Muslim states who say they disagree with Sharia law to stand up and voice their condemnation of this behaviour yet not a sound.
How about the Muslim Council of Great Britain condemning this? Perhaps they have but if they have they certainly haven't shouted loud enough for it to be heard nationally.
Western embassies and rights groups have urged Sudan to respect the right of the woman to choose her religion.
How about the Muslim Council of Great Britain condemning this? Perhaps they have but if they have they certainly haven't shouted loud enough for it to be heard nationally.
28 May 2014, 02:22 PM
#134
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-27586067
No mention of condemnation by Muslim states then, or in fact by any Muslim authority, just the West as usual standing up for human rights. Here is a perfect opportunity for those Muslim states who say they disagree with Sharia law to stand up and voice their condemnation of this behaviour yet not a sound.
How about the Muslim Council of Great Britain condemning this? Perhaps they have but if they have they certainly haven't shouted loud enough for it to be heard nationally.
No mention of condemnation by Muslim states then, or in fact by any Muslim authority, just the West as usual standing up for human rights. Here is a perfect opportunity for those Muslim states who say they disagree with Sharia law to stand up and voice their condemnation of this behaviour yet not a sound.
How about the Muslim Council of Great Britain condemning this? Perhaps they have but if they have they certainly haven't shouted loud enough for it to be heard nationally.
That was my point. Nothing against good and peaceful Muslims at all.
31 May 2014, 10:17 PM
#136
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Fantastic news, if that's to happen.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-27651483
What a beautiful woman. Very brave as well.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-27651483
What a beautiful woman. Very brave as well.
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