Subway ban Bacon and Ham
08 May 2014, 03:51 PM
#391
Scooby Senior
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: North Wales
Posts: 5,826
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
As for your second point, I whole heartedly agree. The same should be true for Muslims, however (or any other religion, for that matter).
08 May 2014, 03:53 PM
#392
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Birmingham
Posts: 2,482
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I think what he meant to say was....
This is Great Britain, the great British public are obviously going to kick up a huge fuss,as we the British citizens like our bacon sarnies with our cups of tea, halal has no place on these isles, Islam has no place on these isles, after all this is England not an Muslim country.
If you don't like me eating a bacon sandwich in front of you then f#ck off. Simple.
Live here then play by our rules, not the other f&cking way round.
This is Great Britain, the great British public are obviously going to kick up a huge fuss,as we the British citizens like our bacon sarnies with our cups of tea, halal has no place on these isles, Islam has no place on these isles, after all this is England not an Muslim country.
If you don't like me eating a bacon sandwich in front of you then f#ck off. Simple.
Live here then play by our rules, not the other f&cking way round.
Secondly nobody gives a **** what you have in your sandwhich. Again... offence in your imagination only. I bet you park your car outside the local mosque eating a ham sandwich thinking 'my country, i'll show em'
Thirdly ----- stop ****ing moaning! It's annoying... if you don't like it here then **** off elsewhere!
08 May 2014, 03:54 PM
#393
The Bible contradicts itself and Christianity is more fcucked than Islam is. Christ (pun intended) - there's different belief systems within Christianity as Christians cant even agree what the story should be.
Both the Bible and the Quoran have get out clauses when it suits.
We all bend whatever rules our belief system inflicts on us from time to time.
None of that changes the fact that as permitted slaughtering methods go, halal is right up there on the cruelty stakes.
Both the Bible and the Quoran have get out clauses when it suits.
We all bend whatever rules our belief system inflicts on us from time to time.
None of that changes the fact that as permitted slaughtering methods go, halal is right up there on the cruelty stakes.
08 May 2014, 03:54 PM
#394
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: I'll check my gps
Posts: 2,626
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Shaid, I can totally appreciate topics like this cropping up could frustrate you depending on what some people say, but what is the harm in answering genuine questions where people are actually seeking to get to the truth?
I would never expect you or anyone else to come on here and justify themselves, but if a person has an answer and can put myths straight, surely it's a good thing to give it.
I generally prefer to get answers to questions I might have in life straight from the horse's mouth so to speak, rather than relying on google which can at times provide conflicting information depending upon what site you click onto.
The only way for people to better understand one another and potentially get along better, is to discuss, sensibly, things that trouble them or that are unclear.
I would never expect you or anyone else to come on here and justify themselves, but if a person has an answer and can put myths straight, surely it's a good thing to give it.
I generally prefer to get answers to questions I might have in life straight from the horse's mouth so to speak, rather than relying on google which can at times provide conflicting information depending upon what site you click onto.
The only way for people to better understand one another and potentially get along better, is to discuss, sensibly, things that trouble them or that are unclear.
08 May 2014, 04:02 PM
#396
Scooby Senior
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: North Wales
Posts: 5,826
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Although no fan of organised religion, it's humans who are evil and greedy, all wars are started by humans, for various reasons. If we didn't have religion, we would kill each other for other reasons.
Tribalism and territorialism are still human issues, I'm afraid.
Tribalism and territorialism are still human issues, I'm afraid.
08 May 2014, 04:02 PM
#397
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Home
Posts: 14,758
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ultimately it's always the bottom line, it would be naive to believe otherwise. 
For the record the bible explicitly forbids the consumption of pork.
http://www.openbible.info/topics/eating_pork
For the record the bible explicitly forbids the consumption of pork.
http://www.openbible.info/topics/eating_pork
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...20&version=ESV
Mark 7:15-20 ESV
"There is nothing outside a person that by going into him can defile him, but the things that come out of a person are what defile him.” And when he had entered the house and left the people, his disciples asked him about the parable. And he said to them, “Then are you also without understanding? Do you not see that whatever goes into a person from outside cannot defile him, since it enters not his heart but his stomach, and is expelled?” (Thus he declared all foods clean.)
"There is nothing outside a person that by going into him can defile him, but the things that come out of a person are what defile him.” And when he had entered the house and left the people, his disciples asked him about the parable. And he said to them, “Then are you also without understanding? Do you not see that whatever goes into a person from outside cannot defile him, since it enters not his heart but his stomach, and is expelled?” (Thus he declared all foods clean.)
08 May 2014, 04:04 PM
#399
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Birmingham
Posts: 2,482
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
08 May 2014, 04:04 PM
#400
Scooby Regular
Under Islamic law, pork is forbidden and while other meat can be eaten, it must be sourced, slaughtered and processed according to very strict rules.
Were in the uk if u choose to live hear just do as we do(eat pork enjoy real meat and not kick up a fuss how a animal has been killed u still killed it to so what difference does it make) or go with out why should we have to keep changing our way to fit in with others.
Were in the uk if u choose to live hear just do as we do(eat pork enjoy real meat and not kick up a fuss how a animal has been killed u still killed it to so what difference does it make) or go with out why should we have to keep changing our way to fit in with others.
The thing I can't get my head around is if it is better to be 100% Halal nationwide so the growing Muslim population can eat where they want and not feel pushed out or is it better to push for all eateries in just Muslim areas to be Halal. Isn't integration, not colonisation, something Tony Blair's regime hoped for???
08 May 2014, 04:18 PM
#402
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Birmingham
Posts: 2,482
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
08 May 2014, 04:19 PM
#403
Scooby Regular
In which case Muslim's shouldn't be eating halal meat unless they know for a fact that the source of the meat conforms to all and every requirement?
08 May 2014, 04:22 PM
#404
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: I'll check my gps
Posts: 2,626
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
08 May 2014, 04:50 PM
#406
Russell Brand - Talks About HALAL: http://youtu.be/jZYGJOhD0cY
Also saying it is racist news? How is it racist?
I'll go back 13 pages or so and agree that this country is ****ing mental.
08 May 2014, 04:52 PM
#407
Scooby Regular
I have limited understanding of Islam like most people of all faiths but I think blessing meat (Bismillah) to make it permissible only applies to food consumed in Muslim lands. Some Muslims will argue non-Halal isn't acceptable in any circumstance. Teachings differ.
08 May 2014, 05:06 PM
#408
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Home
Posts: 14,758
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
08 May 2014, 05:07 PM
#409
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Birmingham
Posts: 2,482
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Not true, the Qur'an explicitly teaches you that Muslims can eat Christian and Jewish food. Some Scholars argue other wise. Extenuating circumstances applies to Islamic countries afaik.
I have limited understanding of Islam like most people of all faiths but I think blessing meat (Bismillah) to make it permissible only applies to food consumed in Muslim lands. Some Muslims will argue non-Halal isn't acceptable in any circumstance. Teachings differ.
I have limited understanding of Islam like most people of all faiths but I think blessing meat (Bismillah) to make it permissible only applies to food consumed in Muslim lands. Some Muslims will argue non-Halal isn't acceptable in any circumstance. Teachings differ.
Okay dear you iz da expert innit
08 May 2014, 05:08 PM
#410
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Birmingham
Posts: 2,482
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
08 May 2014, 05:13 PM
#411
Thanks for the link, Maz. From it there is this key passage from the New Testament:
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...20&version=ESV
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...20&version=ESV
08 May 2014, 05:21 PM
#412
Scooby Regular
08 May 2014, 05:36 PM
#413
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Home
Posts: 14,758
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
No, they're to be understood in the context of the Old Testament given to the Jews, not the New Testament of Christianity.
From the New Testament:
In other words Paul is saying 'live and let live, Brother'.
Christians are justified by faith alone (sola fide) and not by works. An external adherence to the Deutoronomic code is not sufficient - one's interior life, one's purity of heart is key to entering the kingdom of God.
From the New Testament:
Romans 14:1-23 ESV / 1
As for the one who is weak in faith, welcome him, but not to quarrel over opinions. One person believes he may eat anything, while the weak person eats only vegetables. Let not the one who eats despise the one who abstains, and let not the one who abstains pass judgment on the one who eats, for God has welcomed him. Who are you to pass judgment on the servant of another? It is before his own master that he stands or falls. And he will be upheld, for the Lord is able to make him stand. One person esteems one day as better than another, while another esteems all days alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind.
As for the one who is weak in faith, welcome him, but not to quarrel over opinions. One person believes he may eat anything, while the weak person eats only vegetables. Let not the one who eats despise the one who abstains, and let not the one who abstains pass judgment on the one who eats, for God has welcomed him. Who are you to pass judgment on the servant of another? It is before his own master that he stands or falls. And he will be upheld, for the Lord is able to make him stand. One person esteems one day as better than another, while another esteems all days alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind.
Christians are justified by faith alone (sola fide) and not by works. An external adherence to the Deutoronomic code is not sufficient - one's interior life, one's purity of heart is key to entering the kingdom of God.
08 May 2014, 05:52 PM
#414
No, they're to be understood in the context of the Old Testament given to the Jews, not the New Testament of Christianity.
From the New Testament:
In other words Paul is saying 'live and let live, Brother'.
Christians are justified by faith alone (sola fide) and not by works. An external adherence to the Deutoronomic code is not sufficient - one's interior life, one's purity of heart is key to entering the kingdom of God.
From the New Testament:
In other words Paul is saying 'live and let live, Brother'.
Christians are justified by faith alone (sola fide) and not by works. An external adherence to the Deutoronomic code is not sufficient - one's interior life, one's purity of heart is key to entering the kingdom of God.
But, does this not stray from Jesus' own teachings and actions? Iirc Jesus himself is not known to have eaten pork. If we are to take Mark's words literally then nothing is out bounds. Cats, dogs, rats etc. If a man cannot be defiled by what enters his stomache then it's all fair game.
Last edited by Maz; 08 May 2014 at 05:55 PM.
08 May 2014, 06:02 PM
#415
Wasn't all these old books written to stop you doing stupid things.
Back then people were stupid, ok there are still lots of stupid people around now, but back then they were so stupid they didn't know that what they ate would kil them. And nobody would teach them otherwise.
What do they do...write it into the religion.; they then preach it and hence "teach" people what they should and should not do. From the morals live to preparing you dinner.
Making sure the animal is dead and drained of blood is a important thing, and certain animals were known to transmit pathogens due to lack of ability to store and cook raw meats properly.
Looking at it from that aspect most religions make alot of sense in a time when Master chef and the Maccy D's (or Mc Davids ) didn't exist. These days? Bit outdated, now innit? Time for a re-write.
Back then people were stupid, ok there are still lots of stupid people around now, but back then they were so stupid they didn't know that what they ate would kil them. And nobody would teach them otherwise.
What do they do...write it into the religion.; they then preach it and hence "teach" people what they should and should not do. From the morals live to preparing you dinner.
Making sure the animal is dead and drained of blood is a important thing, and certain animals were known to transmit pathogens due to lack of ability to store and cook raw meats properly.
Looking at it from that aspect most religions make alot of sense in a time when Master chef and the Maccy D's (or Mc Davids
) didn't exist. These days? Bit outdated, now innit? Time for a re-write.
Last edited by ALi-B; 08 May 2014 at 06:03 PM.
08 May 2014, 06:11 PM
#416
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Berks
Posts: 4,224
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It's just an outdated way of thinking. If all of us here were living in Britain 200 years ago probably all of us would have religious beliefs, however science and fact has now overridden myth and tradition - basically, we now know better.
The majority of people who are religious in this country are from, or have their roots in, developing countries. As time goes on, and with the benefit of proper eduction I believe religion would die out.
The majority of people who are religious in this country are from, or have their roots in, developing countries. As time goes on, and with the benefit of proper eduction I believe religion would die out.
08 May 2014, 06:14 PM
#417
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Home
Posts: 14,758
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Jesus said:
'All was accomplished' when Jesus died on the cross.
For the reasons outlined above. Jesus was a Jew and adhered to 'the Law', as a Gentile and a Christian I am not bound by this law.
They were Jesus's words, Mark merely edited the passage, otherwise yes, you are correct.
Correct. I don't eat cats because I've kept them as pets. I don't eat dogs because my neighbour has one as a pet (and I have an irrational fondness for them which precludes me from consuming their flesh). I don't eat rats because they are small, have funny tails, unattractive teeth, spread disease and aren't very meaty. None of the creatures you mention are off the menu because God has deemed them unclean.
Matthew 5:17-19 ESV
“Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished. Therefore whoever relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. whoever relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
“Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished. Therefore whoever relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. whoever relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Iirc Jesus himself is not known to have eaten pork.
If we are to take Mark's words literally then nothing is out bounds.
Cats, dogs, rats etc. If a man cannot be defiled by what enters his stomache them it's all fair game.
Last edited by JTaylor; 08 May 2014 at 08:05 PM.
08 May 2014, 08:00 PM
#419
Jesus said:
'All was accomplished' when Jesus died on the cross.
For the reasons outlined above. Jesus was a Jew and adhered to 'the Law', as a Gentile and a Christian I am not bound by this law.
They were Jesus's words, Mark merely edited the passage, otherwise yes, you are correct.
Correct. I don't eat cats because I've kept them as pets. I don't eat dogs because my neighbour has one as a pet (and I have an irrational fondness for them which precludes me from consuming their flesh). I don't eat rats because they are small, have funny tales, unattractive teeth, spread disease and aren't very meaty. None of the creatures you mention are off the menu because God has deemed them unclean.
'All was accomplished' when Jesus died on the cross.
For the reasons outlined above. Jesus was a Jew and adhered to 'the Law', as a Gentile and a Christian I am not bound by this law.
They were Jesus's words, Mark merely edited the passage, otherwise yes, you are correct.
Correct. I don't eat cats because I've kept them as pets. I don't eat dogs because my neighbour has one as a pet (and I have an irrational fondness for them which precludes me from consuming their flesh). I don't eat rats because they are small, have funny tales, unattractive teeth, spread disease and aren't very meaty. None of the creatures you mention are off the menu because God has deemed them unclean.
