You cannot get your head round it because you have misunderstood the statement.

Of course there are PLENTY of people out there intelligent enough to be teachers, (And see my next post ), but 99.99% of them COULD NOT DO THE JOB: wrong mindset, don't like kids enough. not got the patience, not got the personality to stand in front of a class, or a yeargroup or the whole school and control them and talk to them.....

Ever tried?

Because until you have, you have no idea.

PS: your comment about those who can..blah blah blah just shows you up. Please don't stoop to rubbish like that.

 

Of course they do.
BUT:
1. Why would someone with an upper second, or a first, want to go into teaching when with the right subject degree, other careers are more lucrative and have far less stress?

2. Are you aware that of those who DO go into teaching now, over 50% have left the profession after three years?
Now I wonder why?????

3. And the ratio of Female to male entrants is now about 5:1? What's that doing for boys?
And WHY won't men go in??????

 

Is that because men don't have enough patience required for teaching youngsters? Or, is it because men want to be paid more than women in the same profession? Or, is it because teaching is already so female dominated that it puts men off to be among that many female teachers, and they feel isolated? Or, they don't really mind this female dominance in this profession if those female teachers promise to be reasonably fit?

 

I don't know, but I'd say as follows:

1. A man with a good degree in subjects like the sciences and engineering can earn more in industry, with FAR less stress.

2. The stress levels in teaching are more than most blokes can put up with. If you think making your own child behave, try it with a class of 25-30 kids in secondary school, esp the less motivated ones...and always keep in mind...no contact whatsoever.....so if you say "Out" and he/she says "**** off!"...what you gonna do?

3. Most blokes don't want to be bothered with little kids, so none in primary now..well few anyway.

4. the bullshine is just constant....can YOU rewrite your whole set of lesson plans every year because government want it done differently? And can you write a lesson plan to motivate kids who are A* down to remedial...in the same class????

 

According to a union rep on breakfast tv last week it was 40%

 

The TES said 50% recently.

So half, or nearly half...why?????

 

Hm. To bring it all together, the relationship between the male teacher's wage and his level of stress is a point of importance imo.

I wonder why women teachers respond differently to the same condition of work? Is that because if everyone left Teaching profession, we'll have to recruit Polish teachers who no kid will ever understand??? I wonder if the Government already has this contingency plan B in its head to make teachers see their backside one day. Not good if so, I know.

 

Both my of my twins (year 3) have a male teacher, which at primary is unusual, but we do have an inspirational head teacher

The teacher that teaches my girl twin (mr bray) is truly outstanding, Sorrel is utterly transfixed every day at school, she absolutely loves it, and is so motivated and engaged it is frightening

 

All this claptrap about the Degree ... everyone has a degree these days ... Mike my Binman has a degree.

It's not as if it's a proper degree - most Teaching Degree's are Art Degree's .... wooly, fluffy and soft.

Which is what the profession is - by its very nature ........ and the main reason men do not enter it.

Back to TRL Payments - a single Governor can alert Governors to the abuse, but can do nothing if the Head convinces most that what they propose is correct! TLR payments are rife, and abused.

Teachers DO get 2 pay rises per year .... Heads get 2 as well - just that their second pay rise is up TWO points on the Leadership Spine!! Worth around 10%!!!

Teachers are contracted to work 26 hours per week and 3 hours of that is non-contact time ... they are in touch with pupils for 23 hours per week MAXIMUM (this is the legal position).

And as for the NUT - they are the most militant Union in the land ..... the Miners came close in the 80's ... even the Railway Unions are less militant!

I say sack any Teacher who puts pupils at risk ... let them strike on one of their 70 days holidays!

 

It's not all bad according to the Guardian...some it seem want to return.

Broadly speaking, the majority of teachers in England who leave the profession tend to be either in their early careers (within the first five years) or toward the end (over 50s) – according to earlier Department for Education research. Notably, a significant proportion (around three in 10) of the younger teachers are leaving with an intention to return, for example going on sabbatical, travelling or starting a family.

 

My experience is that NOT ONE Teacher I have ever known has left never to return. They generally go off and do something fluffy ........ and then come back having 'found' themselves.

The pay and conditions are so good that no-one in their right mind would jack it in ..... how can they possibly work in the real world? They have never been contracted to work more than 26 hours a week ..... they have never worked for longer than 5 weeks without having a holiday.

Does anyone else see what they have done this Easter Holiday? The cheeky sly things have selected the two weeks BEFORE the Easter weekend to close the school .... you would have thought the two weeks SPANNING the Easter weekend would have been reasonable wouldn't you?

But, no, think about it ...... they get the Easter Monday off as an extra day doing it as they have, they then tag an INSET day on the Tuesday (another day off essentially!) - they have a whole 18 days off!!!! YES, 18 days off straight!!

And then they wonder why they get no sympathy!! Most workers get 2, yes 2, days off over Easter!!!

I like Teachers, I don't like their constant bitching about how hard done by they are - that's all ...... and I don't like all the smoke and mirrors to hide the truth about their vast pay and vast holidays and little contracted hours.

 

I like teachers too (and kids come to think of it)

I went to school with them

 

I can't help but notice a lack of mention of university lecturers in this thread...

 

Different kettle of fish if doing a science based degree or similar as many will have a doctorate or similar plus the allocated amount of time is different and planning required plus research for lectures. Also different dealing with late teens and early twenties compared to little kids

 

Pete, your posts are becoming tedious.

In your first post you persist in telling lies about pay rises..remembered, I'm married to a headteacher, so I KNOW what SHE got......
I'm not going to argue any more about that. I've proved you wrong, live with it.

The degree thing: you are right, fluffy, woolly degrees do exist.

But not in teaching any more...or at least, you can't get in with one. Go on the website and check.

And if you have a good degree in a science, technical etc subject, WHY would you want to start on £21,000 and all the stress?

Lastly: holidays.

First off, no teacher has a say in their holiday dates. None.

The unions have an input, but the daters are set by the LEA.

And this year, they are trying two things: first to equalise the lengths of the two terms, spring/summer, and second, to get the holiday AWAY from the actual holiday, so as to TRY and get parents cheaper holidays.

Only someone as bitter as you could see that as TEACHERS trying to get more time off.

And THAT is patently a lie, since teachers are contracted for 195 days a year, in which the school must be open 190 days..the other five are the Baker days I explained earlier, and HAVE TO BE TAKEN BY LAW. Nowt to do with the school again, OK?

Lastly, your repetared use of teachers being contracted 26 hours a week: It's actually 32.5 hours a week minimum (1265 hours a year minimum divided by 195 days..do the math, as our American friends would say).

And as I said again: THERE IS NO LEGAL MAXIMUM.

Which means if all your marking and lesson preps aren't done in that time...on you go...because BY LAW, they must be done!

Now...any more rubbish, or lies Pete?

 

Yeah mind you I did fall into the usual Scoobynet habit of posting without fully checking my facts. Turns out uni lecturers are represented by a different union entirely.

 

If they did a good degree in science or engineering then I guess going into teaching was the last thing on their minds.

 

I find the notion that only teachers suffer from high levels of stress.
Not much stress in the competitive private sector

 

No-one said it's the ONLY job with that level of stress.

But the stress levels are high......and you can't walk away for a coffee, a ***, a break, you are there, alone, with 25-30 recalcitrant teenagers, for up to three hours at a time.

How would the folk on here who think it's easy, deal with the following:

15 yr old kid throws a wobbler, complete with foul language and threats to all, including you.

On starting the discipline process, he suddenly breaks down into floods of tears, and reveals that his father died in his arms the day before.....his alcy mother sent him to school anyway....

What do you do?


Dead easy, isn't it?


And how do you deal with said kid when he goes off on one three weeks later when another "teacher" tells him he's not suprised his dad is dead, "he probably committed suicide to get away from you..."

Does YOUR job have things like this to entertain you?

Do YOU need to be vigilant for words, phrases or marks that might show abuse?
Do you need to be constantly aware of kids being drunk, or on drugs?

Yes, I KNOW teachers know of this sort of problem before going into the job....but it doesn't make it easier. And not everyone could deal with it.

And I'll tell you another thing...when you get home having used up all your patience on the kids in school, and you are MENTALLY dog tired...what happens when your OWN kids kick off?

 

Doesn't sound all that much different to a day in my life, in a shop!

A job people are quick to think is a piece of ****, but it takes a huge level of patience and restraint to be honest. No doubt the experience will vary vastly between the shop itself and the area, a bit like schools....

 

Are teachers not trained to deal with such situations, genuine question btw

 

No, not at all.

That sort of "training" comes from on the job and some courses while in job.

Lisa: I see your point, it's Joe Public, but.........

In teaching, how you respond will affect how that child responds in future...and you have no option BUT to deal with him in the future.

And at the same time, teach him something?

 

And that's another reason why I went into engineering. I never have to deal with Joe Public. Even with a lot of people trying to get me into teaching.

Although I am a STEM ambassador so do get to visit schools, events and such. Not quite the same I know.

It's issues like Alcazar has stated that drives me away from teaching as teachers are losing control of the class rooms these days.


Sorry to bring up wages again but this is the list Al is bringing up;

http://www.tes.co.uk/article.aspx?storycode=6000186

That's not a bad pay rise each year. 7% guaranteed with 14% potential if you are good at your job.

 

Finite though......and simply a way of paying less to start with, with more if you stay.

Hardly a pay rise, just deferred pay.

 

Ok fair enough. Still a rise in pay but with that attitude the base rate you should be using should be in the order of £30k. Slightly less that Pete's number of £38k.

 

Pete's number doesn't come from anywhere except inside his own head.

For some reason, he hates teachers. But then, so do millions of other people...what's new?

 

I'd like to teach some people a lesson at times, let me tell you.

In all seriousness, I'm not saying the jobs are the same, just they share similarities. The way we respond, determines whether we have a job to come back to and few retailers seem to back their staff when it comes to abuse. Not to mention, if said 'nasty' customer returns, we have no choice but to put a face on and serve them if they need it. I know it's not the same as having to carry on teaching a child, but it's a frustrating part of the job non the less.

Whatever the job, dealing with the general public in any form is not a walk in the park.

 

Alcazar, teacher's core duty is to provide education as per the requirement of the curriculum. Regarding the special instances you put forward in your post, school's Pastoral Care should provide emotional support to those pupils. All teachers and every teacher doesn't deal with every problem that a child brings in to the school. These days, many schools in Wales and England gain psychological support provided by their county council as its statutory duty via counsellors and educational psychologists. Schools also access NHS CAMHS and voluntary agencies/orgs that provide such services. Schools also receive support from the county council paid educational social worker; additional/special needs coordinators; pupil support with extra academic help etc. Pastoral Care is made of some teachers, Senco/Anco are also designated school teachers, so is school's own Safeguarding Officer. These designated staff members usually have less to teach and more time to focus on their specially designated duties.

I have to say that Wales seems to be a bit more fortunate than England when it comes to the school gaining psychological/psychosocial support for the pupils (and also sometimes for the staff). That's because of the Welsh Govt.'s attention to the evidence-based poor psycho-socioeconomic state of the kids here.

PS: I forgot to mention the TAs. Not the Territorial Army, but even much braver category for supporting teachers. My hats off to the Teaching Assistant frontliners who take so much pressure off the teachers to look after children with the need for extra support. They get paid terrible money, and work so hard!

In summary, teacher doesn't deal with all what a child brings in to the school. There's usually a support system in place. It is often seen that if the school head is proactive, he/she is successful in developing/acquiring/accessing more assistance to attend "other than educational" needs. Budgets, urgency/severity, fair distribution of such services from the service providing bodies etc. are also taken into account.

 

HA HA HA HA HA HA HA ....... I see - NOW a pay rise in NOT actually a pay rise!

Priceless - and illustrates the mixed up logic which comes from the Teachers and their supporters!

Fact is - Teachers get 2 pay rises per year and one is at a rate of over TWICE that of inflation.

Smoke and mirrors - just the mirrors are finally cracking as Joe public start to see what fantastic terms and conditions Teachers enjoy - and an utter amazement that they could be so greedy.

 

Agree with above - it's the Teaching Assistant on minimum wage which deserve our sympathy - they are the ones who deal with the awkward pupils (not the Teacher) - they get paid for the 26 hours a week which Teachers are contracted to work, they get the minimum leave paid (not the 14 weeks Teachers get).

Teachers do a great job generally, and I wish I had such a rewarding job, but they really should stop moaning constantly about their amazing fantastic salaries, pay rises and holidays because people in the real world are getting fed up with it!