chocolate_o_brian

iTrader: (22)

What are people's thoughts on the teachers' strikes today?

Just been scanning the Sky News app and saw it's the first proper strike action in 3 years.

First thing that came to mind was the way 3 years was perceived to be a long time between strikes

I know a couple of young teachers personally so I'm split opinion wise.

What's NSR's thoughts?

wrx300scooby

Pete will be along soon to give his opinion no doubt.

fatscoobfella1

iTrader: (1)

What are they striking for ?

Longer holidays or a shorter working day ?

LSherratt

iTrader: (1)

My girlfriend is a trainee teacher and her mum is a headmistress I've told her before that there's usually aways a teachers thread on SN and that I must get them to reply! As for the strike, she hasn't mentioned anything to me about it.

pimmo2000

iTrader: (6)

I support them completely, who cares if it messes up my week and forces me to try and work from home with two kids .. bah

richs2891

So what impression does it give to kids if the teachers go on strike ?
IF cant get your own way down tools, refuse to work ?

Richard

ReallyReallyGoodMeat

I've read several articles, and still don't know what they are actually striking for.

ReallyReallyGoodMeat

Genuine question: Before the public sector pay-freeze, did teachers ever strike over workload or curriculum?

Mark10sti

iTrader: (2)

I'm going to be busy

neil-h

I highly doubt the kids care much past the joy of getting a day off school.

ReallyReallyGoodMeat

I found my answer:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...-21-years.html

Before 2008, teachers had not gone on strike for 21 years. Teaching standards were declining during these years, particularly the 2000s with grade inflation and declining world rankings, yet they never went on strike over workload or the curriculum?

So, where were the mass protests about the inferior curriculum and teaching back then? Oh that's right, they were being paid well so didn't care. That tells me all I need to know about this strike, and teachers' agendas in general.

pslewis

Let me clear some things up - they are striking because they don't want their pay rises to be linked to their performance, in a nutshell.

Yes, I know the rest of the world has had performance related pay for so long we think it normal ..... but Teachers are special you see?

They still get TWO pay rises per year - yes, I know that's not what the parents who will be suffering today get ..... but Teachers are special you see?

Everything aside, the best Teachers should be celebrating!

It's the Teachers who actually hold back children who are worried .... they will still get their TWO payrises per year, but the % will be smaller than their top performing colleagues.

Make no mistake, Teaching is so far behind the rest of the world in pay and conditions that it will take an eternity to bring them into the real world .... but that's OK because Teachers are special.

Now, turning to this strike action ... I'm against it because it hurts the kids - I know that because the Teachers tell me over and over that every single day in the Classroom is vital to the pupils development (this is when they are complaining about a parent taking a child out for a holiday in term time).

Instead of hurting the pupils, and their parents, why not go out on strike in the 2 1/2 weeks Easter holiday?

It would make sense to strike in the school holidays .... because aren't the Teachers telling us that they do 10 hours a day work even when schools are closed?

In that case REALLY hurt the Government (and not the children) by downing your tools in the school holidays ...... tell you what, go all guns blazing and tell the Government that you are going on strike for the WHOLE of the 7 weeks Summer Holiday ... that will hurt them so much they will give in to your demands.

But stop hurting the kids, just because you don't want to be paid according to your performance ..... you do still get TWO pay rises per year!

And don't even get me onto the gross misuse of the TLR payment system!! There are Teachers out there getting THREE payrises per year!

Xx-IAN-xX

If I take my kids out of school I'm told I'm disrupting their education and fined, should fine all the teachers that don't turn into work today, they are disrupting my child's education.

pslewis

^^ Which is why they should strike in the School Holidays - they tell us they work constantly through the 14 weeks they are not Teaching - so it should really make an impact on the Government^^

dpb

Nice day for it.


Least it is here anyway

paulr

For anyone that comments on international league tables. Read the other day about school life in Korea. Starts at 7am finish at 5 PM. The extra 2 hours English, then extra 2 hours maths. Then home and homework. Typically finish at midnight. 74% do extra classes. That's a normal school day.

As for the strike, if we keep rubbishing teachers, as a country we are finished. The teachers when I was at school are still one of the biggest influences in my life. Without a good education, as a nation, it's over.

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

All they need is a Bob Crow at the head of ther union.... they will get their pay rises and there will be no more posts on SN in support of them... it's a win win as the SN right wing simpleton lynch mob will be happy and so will the teachers

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

Which is why Korea is one of the leading industrial nations of the world on a per capita basis whereas we are a breeding ground for illiterate unemployable thickos!

scoobyboy

amen to that! i'm marking down all the days on the calendar they either strike or it's one of these inset days then i'm going to bill the school at the end of the year for all the extra child care i've had to pay for

hodgy0_2

it seems incredible now

but in the 40's 50's and 60's - teaching was seen as a "profession" with a similar status as Lawyers, Accountants and Doctors

they seem to have slipped down the pecking order somewhat

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

But why is that? They are arguably as important as doctors in that they directly shape people's lives yet everyone seems to bash them at every opportunity.

smiffywhu

Lower school teachers can't really be compared to doctors.My brother-in-law is a primary teacher, no degree and thick as sh !t, oh and guess what - he's having the day off.Glad it's pissing it down!!Maybe they are all under payed (even with all their holiday) but as already mentioned why should our "future" be disrupted?I've paid a fortune to take the family on holiday this August.Next year we'll be going in May!

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

They took industrial action, short of striking, yes.

The action took the form of refusing to cover for absent colleagues, refusing to attend meetings and refusing to give up a day's holiday to attend pre-school meetings., get the work sorted, classrooms ready etc etc.

In 1988 the then Tory government, with education minister Kenneth Baker, (Greasy Baker to his chums in teaching), and, of course led by the spiteful witch, brought in the 1988 Education Act, as a direct result of the above and because pay negotiations were ongoing.

The act had the following provisions:

195 working days for teachers, instead of the 190 they then did. This is the origin of the so-called "training days" at the beginning etc of each term, previously known as "Baker Days".
(Note these are enforced by law, NOT something teachers have dreamt up to get kids out of school...the kids never WERE in school on those days).

A minimum number of working hours, known as directed time, 1265 per year, or six and a half a day, NOT to include bfreaks and lunch times.

An UNLIMITED number of working hours per year, when, if they have work to do, it must be completed......not many professions have THAT one.

Future pay "negotiations" would be handled by a new quango, the "Teachers Pay and Conditions Advisory Body", which is, of course, neutral...except that it's not....since it's inception, guess what? Teachers haven't had a single fraction of a percent more than what government say they can afford...... and recently, in the last fifteen years, not ONE rise even EQUAL to the rate of inflation.

Thus the refusal to attend scheduled meetings and the refusal to give up a day's holiday, were outlawed at a stroke.....note, meetings MUST now be scheduled, by law.

The only thing that wasn't addressed at that time was the refusal to cover classes of absent teachers.

This went to the High Court about seven years ago under Lying Labour.

All legal advisors were CERTAIN the government couldn't win. It's the law in virtually every other civilised country that teachers are NOT required to cover for absent colleagues...and guess what? just like they "couldn't win" at the ECHR over speed cameras and having to incriminate yourself...the government won!

So teachers are now VERY wary of any sort of industrial action.

However....if you do some research, you'll find that SCOTTISH teachers have far better pay and conditions.
Why?

Because THEIR unions worked together. They put a small levy on every teacher, then withdrew all teachers in the constituencies of the top Scottish MPs and refused to let them go back to work until the government capitulated, while still paying them from the levy.
The teachers in question helped out at schools unaffected if they could.
The government DID capitulate and we have the situation as it is.

Meanwhile we have eroding salaries, worsening conditions, (the government are already talking of wanting schools to open until 18:30 every evening), and worsening pension....meanwhile, you now need a 2:1 degree to ENTER teaching and they are talking of making that a first only!!!

Do I support the strikes?

I support their RIGHT TO STRIKE, but I feel they would be better if they were more widely publicised, and co-ordinated like the Scottish ones were.

"Right to strike"?

Surely...they are there to educate your children, not child-mind them

hodgy0_2

well I suspect the reasons are many - and complex

but undoubtedly, they obviously did not have very good professional bodies (BMA, Law Society, FCA etc) to protect their interests

pslewis

I admire your post in it's detail, but I'm struggling with the Maths in the above.

1265 hours - to a normal working person, working 40 hours a week and working 48 weeks a year is ** 26 hours a week! **

So, when Teachers say they have to work an 'extra' 10 hours a week to do their huge workload they are STILL working LESS than everyone else in the country! IF they do an extra 10 hours a week they are working the equivalent of 36 hours!

They are really clever at smoke and mirrors - but I'm a lot wiser than that, I can see through it all.

I can see that an average Teacher costs an average Senior School in the UK about £56,000 a year. That is the truth. For 26 hours directed time a week!

That's like saying to a Binman, "You have to collect bins for 26 hours a week, over and above that you can do what you like - we 'hope' you collect another 30 bins a day - but we cannot make you do that"

No offence to any binmen reading this - it was used to illustrate a point.

Teaching is one of the very best jobs out there, it is highly paid, the benefits are substantial ......

..... the rewards can be far better than non-Teachers experience ..... seeing a 16 year old leave the School when you have taught them since age 11 is quite a magical thing to watch - most professions do not come close to that emotion about their product.

I admire the best Teachers, I do not like the free-riding Teachers who take it all and give little, the profession does not weed out the useless - it rewards them with two payrises per year ...... and they are striking to keep this status quo? Nah, they are wrong and should not strike.

They are damaging children in the desire to maintain poor Teachers who are destroying childrens lives.

ScoobyDoo555

Well, I've taken full advantage of the situation and enjoyed a really nice drive.

Fantastic

pslewis

You mean the 14 weeks holiday a year isn't enough for you?

ScoobyDoo555

I get much more than that

(and my comment was intentionally incendiary - the drive was to work )

but I did notice that the roads were quieter than normal......

pslewis

That's because the parents who you fine for taking their kids out of school in Term time have had to stay at home losing a days leave from their 4 weeks holiday.

But, you carry on .... you are in a different class than normal workers who have to work 40 hours a week and 48 weeks a year to earn half a Teachers salary ....

ScoobyDoo555

Thanks for finally acknowledging the fact Pete.

And we don't fine parents for taking time out during (valuable lesson time). Our "kids" are in charge of their own learning. No work=fail. Simple.