So why not go into teaching...

 

Too old now sadly, or a more rewarding job I would not be able to find, I recommend it to everyone

 

Some of the best teachers/lecturers I've ever had were of the older generation. The experience (both teaching and in field) tends to make them far better than the career academics.

 

Would that this were true.

In smaller/primary and poorer schools, the so-called pastoral staff have all but gone...no money left to pay anyone to do it.

Social services are useless and a mistake to involve them unless you want tieing in so much red tape.

And the child? STILL has to attend lessons.
Is STILL the form teachers, or class teacher's responsibility.

To just say there are things in place to deal shows the depth of knowledge.

Pet's posts are becoming repetetive and just trolling now.

I can't be bothered to type in a long post detailing what has happened to certain teachers of my knowledge. Suffice to say, if you had it in YOUR job, most of you would move on and move on quickly.

Lisa: I see what you are saying, but does your rude customer come back, for an hour, three times a week, by law?

And have you ever had to try and talk down a customer whose father died in his arms the day before?

I could go on, but it's boring for others.

 

Right, we can all agree on some things, at least:-

1. Teachers get a minimum of 2 payrises a year.

2. Teachers sometimes get TLR payments, which really mean a 3rd payrise.

3. Teachers contracted hours are 26 hours a week, or why would Teaching Assistants who work the same hours get paid pro-rata of a 'normal' 40 hour week? They are paid for 26 hours - therefore that is the standard working time of Teachers ... take the 10% non contact time off and Teachers are actually teaching for 23 hours a week. (in reality it is MUCH less than this - but this is the absolute maximum).

4. TLR payments are paid to give Teachers ever increasing pay awards, at great cost to the Taxpayer.

5. Teaching is a fantastic job, in most areas of the country. Teaching assistants on the minimum wage take the flack from pupils - not the £38,000 a year 28 year old Teacher!

6. NQT's can be paid £27,000 to start - none get £21,000 these days, that's just fabrication.

7. If Teachers work TWICE the hours as they Teach in a week (often put forward as a claim for sympathy) - then they are actually complaining about working 46 hours .. not that unusual I'm afraid these days ...... the only difference is that Teachers can do this soft work on the Beach, by the pool, in the garden with a Pimms - !!

8. With TLR payments, SEN payments, etc. in extra allowances - Teachers regularly are paid £50,000 per year. This is in the Secondary School sector - slightly less in the Junior and Infant Schools (maybe £43,000 a year).

9. Latest figures show that teachers begin on a starting salary of between £21,588 and £27,000. Most start on close to £27,000. This compares favourably with the average salaries for graduates in full-time employment in the UK six months after graduation which range from £18,285 to £23,635. With most starting on £20,000.

10. OECD’s Education at a Glance report 2012 clearly sets out that our teachers are amongst the best paid of all OECD countries. Experienced primary school teachers are paid 17 per cent above the OECD average, and experienced lower secondary school teachers receive around 12 per cent more above the average.

11. Recent research shows that in terms of graduate career choice, schools and universities are now the second most popular type of employer. Last year 65% of entrants to university-based teacher training had a 2:1 or better. Teaching is a highly demanding job; we know that pupils taught by great teachers make the most progress so it is essential that we attract the best graduates for the job.

12. The private sector has the ability to flex its pay arrangements to secure – and then retain – the best people for the job. With 23,000 employers in the school system, a one size fits all approach may not be the most appropriate. Teachers need to realise that poor Teachers will not get the same pay as the best Teachers ...... their Unions are striking to secure bad Teachers in employment, which is an outrage!!

So, please, GET BACK TO WORK!!!

 

Not worth a response. The whole lot has been proved as lies.


Back to the drawing board, Pete.

 

The facts are there for all to see .... I have holed your ship of falsehood beneath the waterline I think?

 

No, no law saying they have to come back, and usually they don't turn up for an hour at a time, but many unpleasant customers are regular visitors. We also have one lad that comes in, who I'll say has learning difficulties as I'm not 100% sure, often 5/6 times a day+ and just wants to chat for ages. He asks very personal questions which can become uncomfortable, but there's nothing we can do, he's not actually doing any real harm.

As for the second situation, I've never been in exactly the same, but I (and other staff) had to deal with a young man a while back who decided to down a bottle of bleach in a so called suicide attempt. We had to try to keep him calm and make sure he didn't do any further harm until the police and paramedics turned up, which wasn't particularly quickly. Then there was a woman, she was having an awful time at home and broke down in the shop. I chatted to her for quite a long time, as I think she just needed to off-load. These situations are not everyday ones, but it's not uncommon to have to deal with many different things outside of just serving customers, whilst still having to do that along with the other elements of the job.

Like you, I could go on, but I'll not for the same reason.

FWIW, I'm not putting a downer on teachers or what they do, just highlighting what goes on in other jobs out there that wouldn't necessarily be expected, that are classed as unimportant, have a crappy wage and are generally looked down on.

 

Teachers are classed as important, have a fantastically high wage and are looked up to ..... which begs the question, "Why do Teachers feel the need to strike as they will no longer be looked up to - or, indeed, classed as important?"

The hard working 'rest of the population' are getting absolutely fed up to the back teeth with their refusal to accept that they are exceptionally well off.

 

Have to say this whole argument smacks of the playground 'waaaaah he's got more sweets than I have, it's not fair'

Yes public support helps life but the whole point in industrial action is the union members standing up for themselves when all other avenues have closed.

 

I'm a Union stalwart ...... I stand by anyone who has a genuine grievance to take action.

The point with the Teachers is that very few feel strong enough to actually strike - most work normally ...... some take a days sick (which is disgusting as they do that to keep their pay, rather than stand with their colleagues).

The main issue is that they are striking to oppose performance related pay!! Yes, it's staggering!! Performance related pay benefits the best Teachers and let's the poor Teachers wither ..... hopefully so they leave!

That's why they have zero support with the hard working parents .... who get judged each year and maybe get no payrise at all.

Teachers get TWO pay rises per year - maybe THREE!

 

You could really do with dropping the 'teachers get 2 or 3 pay rises' bit. There's a sensible argument in that post but once again it's spoiled by the 'waaaaah it's not fair' element.

 

I have to repeat it as someone who knows someone disputes it - yet it is absolute fact ... and a very important thing for everyone to have hammered home, so they can mention it to their striking Teacher friends/colleagues/family.

I wouldn't have to do it if Teachers just came clean about all the allowances they get and the multiple pay rises.

 

Oh the joys of the public sector

 

I got no doubt its a hard job,I remember what it was like when I was at school,some of the class gave the teachers a hard time.Those were the days when you got the finger poke in the chest,YOU BOY GET OUT.And if you forgot your gym kit,they would make us do it in our pants,or sit and write lines...

 

Rubbish...you attack and vilify anyone who strikes.

 

Read what I said ..... I support a GENUINE grievance - enough said.

 

No..........you don't.

You just start trolling and winding people up.

Go and do some work.........if ANYONE is overpaid for throughput it MUST BE YOU.

 

 

No it doesn't. It also shows the depth of experience, not just the knowledge.

With all due respect, as I said before, school's head can be more proactive, and put a support system in place for difficult situations like you exemplified with; in your previous post. School doesn't need to hire a pastoral staff with any money that they do not have, school can give pastoral duties to some of the existing teachers instead. You talk about smaller primary/poor schools. In such schools, one teacher can take many subjects, and another one can divide time between the special duty of pastoral care and his/her teaching. You will say that the number of teachers is so less that they can't do that, so this idea is a fail. In that case, the school head can communicate with voluntary agencies (of course with the agreement of the LEA) that DO NOT charge to come into school, they come in on their own expense. Agencies e.g. Action for Children and Barnardos are working actively and for no charge in many schools already. I mean in the schools that have made alliance with them.

I know it's not easy for teachers to deal with allsorts, and they do struggle sometimes. But even then, the picture you paint of the teachers is as if they have to do all that by themselves, and they have no support whatsoever, and they are such a sorry case isn't true. What stops the head to start encouraging trainee teachers and TA placements in the schools you mention? That should take the pressure of the teachers, wouldn't it?

There are ways if there's a will and good management if the institution by the school head. He/she can relieve a lot of pressure that teachers have to endure.

 

HeadTeachers could set up a support team in their schools, quite easily and very cheaply.

You are absolutely correct in what you say.

Problem is that Heads want to reward Teachers with hikes in pay, steps up the pay scale and with huge TLR Payments ..... rather than buying many Teaching Assistants to support.

A single TLR payment to ONE Teacher could be used to pay for one WHOLE Teaching Assistant full time ....... one gets nothing extra (just pays a Teacher even more money) the other gives full time pastoral care.

I wonder why Heads spend their money rewarding their own profession ..... or maybe I do - and why I would move Heads to be Teachers again and get some real world experience in to run schools - industry leaders.

 

+1.

 

Why on earth would industry leaders want to become head teachers

 

They wouldn't become a Head Teacher .... the Head Teacher will remain the Head Teacher, looking after Teaching.

When it comes to the budget, terms and conditions, man management, then you need someone from the real world .... let the old Head do what they do well, lead Teachers - they should be removed from any form of management, in my opinion.

And I think most Heads would 100% agree with me.

 

A terrible job, I couldn't do it.

It's over-managed and there is huge pressure.

It's being de-professionalised.

Kids just become objects to be filled up with 'facts', and a means for the teacher to achieve his next 'pay rise'.

Teacher-child relationships thus become alienated.

 

Tony, I would like you to come to a 'final day at school' assemble ..... you would then see the emotions involved between the Teachers and their pupils.

On that day you would see that Teaching is maybe the best job in the world - you would see the 'problem' child leaving as a young adult to be proud of - you would be moved, you couldn't fail to be.

It's a wonderful profession - I just wish the militants at the NUT would be honest with the public ...... some here could take an honesty pill too. They are exceptionally rewarded in many ways.

 

Why not invite him to the meetings held before official leaving day, where the REAL problem children are given "study leave" so the rest who want to work can actually do so?

Invite him to a few meetings between head/deputy in charge of discipline and the child and his parents...then you can see the parents' response first hand...or even first fist.

You can witness the kid spit on the head/deputy.

You can hear the windows broken on the way out, and see the police come too late to deal.

Dead easy, Pete.......

 

There are so many untruths in this it's not worth responding to.

 

I have Chaired many, many, Discipline Meetings, you have never been within 10 miles of one!

There is no violence, sometimes it needs a firm hand (and I don't hold back) - but it is far from terrifying FFS!

 

Turning now to your lies about contact time - the figures below show it sits at the 23 hours I have stated all through the thread ....... I now have the evidence, you can see how the hours are broken down here:-

Use of hours Minutes Hours:-

Registration 25 mins x 190 days = 79.2 hours

Mid session breaks 5 x 20 mins x 38 weeks = 3800 mins, 63.3 hours

Teaching time (includes PPA time):-

25 lessons x 55 mins =1375 mins x 38 weeks 870.8 hours >(22.91 hours per week!)<<<<<<<<<< As I said .....

INSET days 5 hours x 5 days 25 hours

Duties:-

• 10 mins start/end of day + 5 mins either end of lunch 30 mins x 190 days = 5700 mins 95 hours

Parents’ Meetings/open evenings 3 hours x 5 days = 15 hours

Staff Meetings 1 hour x 37 weeks = 37 hours

Pupil support /individual pupil issues 1 x 55 mins x 38 weeks =2090 mins 34.8 hours

TOTAL 1220.1 hours <<<<<< this is the true directed time as a Contingency of 44.9 hours is factored in*

OVERALL TOTAL 1265 hours

* can be adapted for teacher with TLRs and management and leadership time

This is MAX the Head and/or Management can direct a Teacher to do - you will note that 22.91 hours is the actual Teaching time .... as I have maintained all along.

Please also note the contingency of almost 45 hours which is there as slack - very rarely used!

So, there you have it - the absolute facts, they cannot be disputed (although some muppet may try!)

Make of it what you will ......