EBC Turbogroove and Redstuff Bedding In
15 January 2002, 02:15 PM
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Just had the EBC Turbogroove (new style with groove right to the edge) and Redstuff pads fitted, also got braided hoses and 5.1 fluid. I was told to go easy for 100 miles and now done 150, is it safe to give em some, should I follow any bedding in procedure?
EBC say the greenstuff need about 500 miles but don't seem to quote a distance for the redstuff.....
Any ideas?
EBC say the greenstuff need about 500 miles but don't seem to quote a distance for the redstuff.....
Any ideas?
15 January 2002, 05:25 PM
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Can't believe you have done 50 miles over the quoted and now you ask the question...I thought more highly of you 
Be gently with them, by the time you have driven around this week and then to PE you can give me a scare with the stopping power
Can't stop span..... oh nearly
Be gently with them, by the time you have driven around this week and then to PE you can give me a scare with the stopping power
Can't stop span..... oh nearly
15 January 2002, 06:04 PM
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Chris - got them from Tyres Northampton, price is around 230 quid but I had the braided hoses and fluid done too for the better pedal feel which was about 80 quid on top of the 230. Yes, they are for a MY99 so the four pots like yours
Ian ya cheeky bugger
lol!! Just checking 
coz I don't want to warp em 
Ian ya cheeky bugger
lol!! Just checking coz I don't want to warp em
16 January 2002, 04:32 PM
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lol 
Too right mate, its all well and good upping the power but the standard brakes are crap with standard power. As I've already done the decat - before any other mods brakes had to be sorted
Only done 170 miles on them so far and still taking it easy so can't comment to much at the moment but the redstuff certainly seem to prefer a little heat in them, from cold not great but then you have to take it easy for a while warming the engine up so it sort of cancels it out
Too right mate, its all well and good upping the power but the standard brakes are crap with standard power. As I've already done the decat - before any other mods brakes had to be sorted Only done 170 miles on them so far and still taking it easy so can't comment to much at the moment but the redstuff certainly seem to prefer a little heat in them, from cold not great but then you have to take it easy for a while warming the engine up so it sort of cancels it out
27 January 2002, 02:15 PM
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ScoobyJawa, how is the bedding in of your EBC disks & red stuff going ?
I had some fitted to my MY99 on Saturday so am interested to hear about your running in experiences
I was using EBC greens on std disks but they had crazed the disk surface
I had some fitted to my MY99 on Saturday so am interested to hear about your running in experiences
I was using EBC greens on std disks but they had crazed the disk surface
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27 January 2002, 07:08 PM
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Peter,
Not overly impressed They are ok but I would say absolutely no better at all than standard brakes. They certainly need some heat in them before they work well and I have to really nail the peddle to the floor to get the car to haul to a stop. Unless they start to get better the more they wear(done about 550 miles now) I won't be having them again...
Perhaps its the Redstuff pads, when they wear I'll try some different pads and see what difference that makes.
Cheers
Neil
Not overly impressed
They are ok but I would say absolutely no better at all than standard brakes. They certainly need some heat in them before they work well and I have to really nail the peddle to the floor to get the car to haul to a stop. Unless they start to get better the more they wear(done about 550 miles now) I won't be having them again...Perhaps its the Redstuff pads, when they wear I'll try some different pads and see what difference that makes.
Cheers
Neil
27 January 2002, 07:32 PM
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I bought the EBC disks & red stuff after being recommended them by Tyres Northampton.
I would be MOST disappointed if mine do not give greater stopping force than standard disks with EBC green stuff !
Perhaps it is the Red Stuff pads then....those grooved EBC disks MUST have more potential then the standard disks ?
Have you tried greens with them ScoobyJawa ?
I would be MOST disappointed if mine do not give greater stopping force than standard disks with EBC green stuff !
Perhaps it is the Red Stuff pads then....those grooved EBC disks MUST have more potential then the standard disks ?
Have you tried greens with them ScoobyJawa ?
27 January 2002, 08:04 PM
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hey guys,
mine's booked in at northampton tyres for saturday 2nd feb.
ive currently got 2 pots on my MY98, which im upgrading to subaru 4 pots.
Im supplying the 4 pots and im having new discs, pads, braided hoses and dot 5 fitted.
the discs are ebc turbo grooves and ive been told that redstuff are the recommended pads to/will be fitted.
the price ive been quoted is £370.00 + VAT (which includes the fitting of the 4 pots).
Q1. Is this price reasonable or can i get it done cheaper elsewhere?
Q2. Is it best to have redstuff fitted as recommended, or should i insist that they put greenstuff on?
your advice is apppreciated
regards
chris
mine's booked in at northampton tyres for saturday 2nd feb.
ive currently got 2 pots on my MY98, which im upgrading to subaru 4 pots.
Im supplying the 4 pots and im having new discs, pads, braided hoses and dot 5 fitted.
the discs are ebc turbo grooves and ive been told that redstuff are the recommended pads to/will be fitted.
the price ive been quoted is £370.00 + VAT (which includes the fitting of the 4 pots).
Q1. Is this price reasonable or can i get it done cheaper elsewhere?
Q2. Is it best to have redstuff fitted as recommended, or should i insist that they put greenstuff on?
your advice is apppreciated
regards
chris
27 January 2002, 09:43 PM
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So far I've never heard of people happy with Red Stuff when used on the road. They operate at higher temps and are not as good from cold as the Green Stuff.
Green Stuff are great on the road and take some punishment. However, through experience these do not make good track pads.
Red Stuff are more suited to light track work BUT have been reported to not last much longer than Greens on Track. (Stef, I think can shed more light on this.)
Personnaly when I upgrade I will not buy Reds. Looking to get EBC disks with either Greens or Ferrodo pads.
Buy Greens etc for the road and have a second set of something else scrubbed in for track work.
P.
Green Stuff are great on the road and take some punishment. However, through experience these do not make good track pads.
Red Stuff are more suited to light track work BUT have been reported to not last much longer than Greens on Track. (Stef, I think can shed more light on this.)
Personnaly when I upgrade I will not buy Reds. Looking to get EBC disks with either Greens or Ferrodo pads.
Buy Greens etc for the road and have a second set of something else scrubbed in for track work.
P.
28 January 2002, 11:11 AM
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Guys - mine were fitted at Tyres Northampton just before Christmas, these were what they recommended to me so as they needed doing I thought I'd replace them with "better" stuff.
Not knocking the lads at TN as they are great, Mark and Elvis are top blokes and service is first class Just not convinced on these products from EBC.........
Initially I had Turbogroove and Greenstuff, these warped on the way home - me hardly even touching them. I then had them replaced again with the same stuff(discs and pads) and had the hoses and 5.1 fluid done as well. A week later same thing happened, even though taking things even more carefully coz of the first set I went back again and this time they fitted redstuff pads with new discs(turbogroove again but the new disc with grooves right to the outside) and so far they haven't warped at all, but as I said I'm not impressed with stopping power, though they might get better.....
As for the price - yeah, sounds about right to me for what they quoted....
Peter - you said you've got them fitted - what are your initial impressions? Do you have the braided hoses? Does your pedal feel spongy when you press it?
[Edited by ScoobyJawa - 1/28/2002 11:16:29 AM]
Not knocking the lads at TN as they are great, Mark and Elvis are top blokes and service is first class
Just not convinced on these products from EBC.........Initially I had Turbogroove and Greenstuff, these warped on the way home - me hardly even touching them. I then had them replaced again with the same stuff(discs and pads) and had the hoses and 5.1 fluid done as well. A week later same thing happened, even though taking things even more carefully coz of the first set
I went back again and this time they fitted redstuff pads with new discs(turbogroove again but the new disc with grooves right to the outside) and so far they haven't warped at all, but as I said I'm not impressed with stopping power, though they might get better.....As for the price - yeah, sounds about right to me for what they quoted....
Peter - you said you've got them fitted - what are your initial impressions? Do you have the braided hoses? Does your pedal feel spongy when you press it?
[Edited by ScoobyJawa - 1/28/2002 11:16:29 AM]
28 January 2002, 10:59 PM
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ScoobyJawa, Mark from TN said they would feel **** for the first 500 miles and to take it easy.....
My pedal feels more wooden than spongy.
It appears we have the same set-up though:
Subaru 4 pots
EBC turbo groove (new design)
EBC red stuff
Goodrich braided hoses
AP Racing dot 5 (.1?) fluid
Standard rear disks/pads
I have an old set of green stuff I can always try, but your experience of warping disks might put me off.
There does appear to be a number of complaints about red stuff on Scoobynet...perhaps a few letters to EBC would help ?
Its strange how us scooby drivers get the most problems obtaining the desired braking system
Keeping my fingers crossed for another 300 miles
My pedal feels more wooden than spongy.
It appears we have the same set-up though:
Subaru 4 pots
EBC turbo groove (new design)
EBC red stuff
Goodrich braided hoses
AP Racing dot 5 (.1?) fluid
Standard rear disks/pads
I have an old set of green stuff I can always try, but your experience of warping disks might put me off.
There does appear to be a number of complaints about red stuff on Scoobynet...perhaps a few letters to EBC would help ?
Its strange how us scooby drivers get the most problems obtaining the desired braking system
Keeping my fingers crossed for another 300 miles
28 January 2002, 11:35 PM
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Went out last night, as now over 500 miles. I gave them a fair bit of stick (very heavy braking 2-3 times ) and I have to say, after that, with some heat in them they were biting much better, and stopping the car much better too......
Yup - exactly the same set up by the looks I'd be careful with the greens - might be that they get too hot too soon and thus with the disks a bit colder more prone to warping 
Might bleed the brakes again and see if that makes a difference as it certainly does feel a bit spongy
) and I have to say, after that, with some heat in them they were biting much better, and stopping the car much better too......Yup - exactly the same set up by the looks
I'd be careful with the greens - might be that they get too hot too soon and thus with the disks a bit colder more prone to warping Might bleed the brakes again and see if that makes a difference as it certainly does feel a bit spongy
28 January 2002, 11:35 PM
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The only way you'll warp discs is if they exceed their maximum operating temperature. Heat is directly related to friction. Friction is what stops you.
If you warp a disc under the circumstances described above, don't blame the pads.
Richard.
PS Who makes these EBC products, anyway?
[Edited by Hoppy - 1/28/2002 11:38:43 PM]
If you warp a disc under the circumstances described above, don't blame the pads.
Richard.
PS Who makes these EBC products, anyway?
[Edited by Hoppy - 1/28/2002 11:38:43 PM]
29 January 2002, 10:51 PM
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ScoobyJawa, I'm glad to hear your EBC brakes are improving
How much of a roar do they make when braking hard ?
I've got about 200 miles yet...still bedding in
Do you still have that fine concentric machining on the disk face ?
How much of a roar do they make when braking hard
?I've got about 200 miles yet...still bedding in
Do you still have that fine concentric machining on the disk face ?
30 January 2002, 10:58 AM
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Yeah - definately need heat!!!
I find they actually give off a lot less noise when braking hard than they did with the greens on - maybe its the new disc as the greens were fitted on the older style.... There is still a vibrating sort of noise, from the grooves, but its not too bad....
That last bit went right over my head?
I find they actually give off a lot less noise when braking hard than they did with the greens on - maybe its the new disc as the greens were fitted on the older style.... There is still a vibrating sort of noise, from the grooves, but its not too bad....
That last bit went right over my head?
30 January 2002, 11:37 PM
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LOL ScoobyJawa....
What I mean is if you look at a new EBC disk face you would see very fine grooves of concentric rings from the machining process.
I was just wondering if you are now experiencing better braking because you've smoothed these down to a flush disk face (as part of the bedding in process).
What I mean is if you look at a new EBC disk face you would see very fine grooves of concentric rings from the machining process.
I was just wondering if you are now experiencing better braking because you've smoothed these down to a flush disk face (as part of the bedding in process).
31 January 2002, 03:44 PM
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Had a look - as far as I can tell its gone, just the grooves, marks from the brake pads on them that I can see. They are getting better but definately require heat, and I mean HEAT in them to be at their best.....
in them to be at their best.....
31 January 2002, 06:58 PM
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Using a Pad like an EBC red on the road is down right dangerous, I can't believe TN have advised you to buy these - they must have misunderstood what you wanted to use them for.
Get them out and change them for a road pad (Greens will be fine).
Reds take me at least a few (2 or 3) corners of hard braking on a race track before they are working properly, so how in the world they are supposed to haul your car down from 70mph in an emergency on the Motorway when they are stone cold is beyond me.
I think Reds have a lower friction coefficient than Greens anyway, so you'll have to apply more pressure even when up to temperature.
They are excellent for track work as long as you do a warm up lap.
Gary
Get them out and change them for a road pad (Greens will be fine).
Reds take me at least a few (2 or 3) corners of hard braking on a race track before they are working properly, so how in the world they are supposed to haul your car down from 70mph in an emergency on the Motorway when they are stone cold is beyond me.
I think Reds have a lower friction coefficient than Greens anyway, so you'll have to apply more pressure even when up to temperature.
They are excellent for track work as long as you do a warm up lap.
Gary
31 January 2002, 11:18 PM
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Gary,
If you read the EBC documentation they ONLY recommend Redstuff pads for use with the Impreza, not the greens, which is why they've been fitted. Suprisingly they are ok on a motorway, provided you know you have to plant your foot down a bit harder....
I have to say though that although the first 2 sets of greens warped the discs, they certainly felt better......
Cheers
Neil.
If you read the EBC documentation they ONLY recommend Redstuff pads for use with the Impreza, not the greens, which is why they've been fitted. Suprisingly they are ok on a motorway, provided you know you have to plant your foot down a bit harder....
I have to say though that although the first 2 sets of greens warped the discs, they certainly felt better......
Cheers
Neil.
31 January 2002, 11:24 PM
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I have used both green & red EBC pads on road & track . The green are good on both road & track but don't last long on track . The reds were crap on the road - no better than standard scooby pads - and no better than the greens on the track but didn't last as long . For the last track day I got a set of Mintex 1166's , the 'track only' pad . They were fantastic on the track ,far better than the EBC pads and wore very well . On the road they are better than std scooby pads from cold and when they warm up are amazing . I took them out and refitted the std ones as the famous Mintex squealing syndrome was driving me nuts . Recently I refitted them ( I was getting fed up with crap brakes ) using plenty of copper grease and so far no squealing .
Somebody asked who makes EBC pads ? Whoever they decide to buy them off . I know a motorsport supplier who deals with mintex direct and was talking to their technical dept one day about EBC pads as he was getting customers looking for them . The mintex bloke told him that they supply EBC with batches of pads who then spray them fancy colours and sell them as their own . A couple of weeks ago I was told the same info by a different performance parts supplier . This is probably why one person can be happy with their EBC's and another isn't . The pads probably came from 2 different suppliers , were both sprayed green but each have totally different performance characteristics . Have you noticed that some people rave on about how dusty their greenstuff's are and yet others get no dust on their alloys . Different pads methinks .
Derek
Somebody asked who makes EBC pads ? Whoever they decide to buy them off . I know a motorsport supplier who deals with mintex direct and was talking to their technical dept one day about EBC pads as he was getting customers looking for them . The mintex bloke told him that they supply EBC with batches of pads who then spray them fancy colours and sell them as their own . A couple of weeks ago I was told the same info by a different performance parts supplier . This is probably why one person can be happy with their EBC's and another isn't . The pads probably came from 2 different suppliers , were both sprayed green but each have totally different performance characteristics . Have you noticed that some people rave on about how dusty their greenstuff's are and yet others get no dust on their alloys . Different pads methinks .
Derek
31 January 2002, 11:45 PM
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Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!
greens(warp the discs)...or.....reds(sh1te on the road)....
guys i need an answer!!!!!!!
theyre getting fitted on saturday!
help
chris
greens(warp the discs)...or.....reds(sh1te on the road)....
guys i need an answer!!!!!!!
theyre getting fitted on saturday!
help
chris
31 January 2002, 11:56 PM
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I'm still bedding in my reds on EBC disks (done 300 miles).
They feel about the same as my standard disks with green stuff.
Has anyone actually found out why EBC do NOT recommend green stuff for their EBC grooved disks ?????
They feel about the same as my standard disks with green stuff.
Has anyone actually found out why EBC do NOT recommend green stuff for their EBC grooved disks ?????
01 February 2002, 12:00 AM
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Interesting points, Derek.
I think it is well known that EBC are better at marketing than they are at manufacturing (considering they only manufacture a few motorcycle brake pads in America). Some other companies operate a similar strategy, and EBC are far from unique.
But personally, I would not fit anything to my car other than pads made by either Ferodo, Mintex, Pagid or Performance Friction. There are surely other good manufacturers as well that are perhaps less familiar in the UK, but with these brands at least you know what you are getting. And broadly speaking, they are priced accordingly.
This maybe a coicidence, but in their analysis of brake pad performance characteristics, AP Racing no longer list EBC products. (See their latest catalogue, freely available to anyone who attended the Autosport show a couple of weeks ago.)
Richard.
I think it is well known that EBC are better at marketing than they are at manufacturing (considering they only manufacture a few motorcycle brake pads in America). Some other companies operate a similar strategy, and EBC are far from unique.
But personally, I would not fit anything to my car other than pads made by either Ferodo, Mintex, Pagid or Performance Friction. There are surely other good manufacturers as well that are perhaps less familiar in the UK, but with these brands at least you know what you are getting. And broadly speaking, they are priced accordingly.
This maybe a coicidence, but in their analysis of brake pad performance characteristics, AP Racing no longer list EBC products. (See their latest catalogue, freely available to anyone who attended the Autosport show a couple of weeks ago.)
Richard.
01 February 2002, 11:18 AM
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The reds are ok on the road, providing you get em up to temp (left foot braking helps ) And once they are hot the difference to cold is phenomenal, so I suppose it depends on your driving style etc, I would say if you spend a lot of time on the motorway (I don't) then do not fit the reds. But for b-road blasts where you'll be using your brakes plenty to keep them up to temp they'll be fine.
Saying that however I don't think I'll be fitting reds again when they wear out, or any other EBC pad for that matter, so will go with one of the mainstream brands.
On that note - anyone got any suggestions (eg mintex/ferrodo etc) that will be ok to use with the EBC Turbogroove disc........????
) And once they are hot the difference to cold is phenomenal, so I suppose it depends on your driving style etc, I would say if you spend a lot of time on the motorway (I don't) then do not fit the reds. But for b-road blasts where you'll be using your brakes plenty to keep them up to temp they'll be fine.Saying that however I don't think I'll be fitting reds again when they wear out, or any other EBC pad for that matter, so will go with one of the mainstream brands.
On that note - anyone got any suggestions (eg mintex/ferrodo etc) that will be ok to use with the EBC Turbogroove disc........????
