PeterPerfect

Went out for a short blast tonight to try out my bedded in EBC red-duff pads & turbo groove disks........
Did about 10 miles on B roads with hard braking.
For safety I was braking well ahead of corners just to determine how much retardation this set-up provides.
Here are my findings:
Could not trigger ABS on dry/damp surface (at any speed).
Hot Retardation felt no stronger than std disks with greens.
Cold retardation felt worse than std disks with greens.
Slightly spongy brake feel
Lots of roar/grinding noise.
Pads now down to 5mm !!!!!

So, after one real blast (after bedding in) I now have as much pad material left as my old EBC greens which had been on for one year
The pad's trailing edge now looks like melted plastic !
To say I am disappointed is an understatement !
I shall NOT be buying red stuff again and am seriously doubting the need for grooved disks for road use....they just appear to tear up the pads.
At this rate the pads will last me 1 month at a cost of £100 !

Can anyone recommend a 4 pot pad with loads of bite ?????
Pi55ed off Pete

ScoobyJawa

Pete,

Interesting what you say about the reds, I have exactly the same opinion, although I've now done some quite severe braking and the wear is nothing at all like you've described - still look like new........

DominicA

If you're gonna change again, i'd look at Pagid Blue, Ferrodo, and Mintex... don't even bother with anything else, just wasting you're time and money...

Dom

PeterPerfect

Richard & Dom - I think you've hit the nail on the head about 'cheap' pads being expensive...though I have no complaints with the EBC greens even though my std disk surface got crazed
I assume these exotic pads you mentioned will be compatable with my EBC turbo groove disks (i.e. not chew them up)?
Not sure about the cut or cast gooves...but I still have all my fingers intact

ScoobyJawa - I was doing some major braking (i.e. 100% effort) from 60ish to 10ish.....the ABS never pulsed (but may have held pressure I guess).
I read somewhere in this forum that EBC pads are <allegedly> inconsistant in performance ?

This test was done to determine how quick the car will stop in an emergency (always useful to know)......with cold and HOT brakes....hence the 100% effort pedal.
I have an old set of greens so may try them out when the reds expire next week
Someone posted that their reds lasted 900 miles and I thought they were joking...now the jokes on me [img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img]
Hmmm...is it time for a proper (big) brake kit ?
Pete

ScoobyJawa

Hmm, if different products are painted and badged by EBC you may have a different compound to mine. I've done some 90-30 and 60-10 etc stops and the wear is nothing at all like you've said. Oh well.
Will have 17's on the car after today so next up will be bigger brakes

JonW

As I metioned in a previous thread, I now have a very inconsistent pedal using Redstuff and the standard disks.

I totally agree that you need to get the pads hot to get decent braking and that cold Redstuff pads are downright dangerous as Ive already had my foot to the boards on an emergency stop once so far and to say Im very unhappy with them is an understatement.

Im sure they would be good for track days but for everyday use I'd look elsewhere, Its the Group N+ kit for me next I think... unless this is gonna act the same when cold...

Jon.

Hoppy

PeterP, I can't say whether the pads I suggested will damage your discs. They certainly won't eat them, but they are only good road pads and nothing exotic! However, DS2000 on my standard discs could trip the ABS from modest speeds and quickly warped and then cracked the standard discs at Dono. Warped a set of Bremsport Group N discs on the same day If these pads damage your discs, it's not the pad that's at fault, but discs that can't take the heat.

I am not a big fan of EBC products, but to be fair us Scoob drivers can give our brakes some serious hammer, and doing full-on back to back emergency stops will wreck just about any standard system.

Only the big brake upgrades can cope with that, which is what I've now got. Apart from track days, every now and then I give them a big squeeze and their power never fails to stun and amaze, whereas before my old brakes always disappointed.

Richard.

PeterPerfect

Richard - what is your current brake setup ?

Iain P

Update: now done 1000 miles on EBC Reds with 325mm drilled and grooved disks and they have just started working 'properly'. The wooden feel has largely gone and they are working much better from cold. The disks have taken on a more vinyl-record type surface (exaggerated) finish (rather than smooth) so obviously they need a while to bed in after running on the Greens. Think I'll keep them for a while now! Brake dust is also MUCH less than the Greens.

Hoppy

Peter, brakes are APR 330x28mm 48-vane discs mounted on alloy bells, APR 6-pot alloy calipers and Pagid RS421 fast road/track pads - in other words a standard official AP Racing upgrade kit.

Rears are standard (vented) UK00 discs with Prodrive upgrade pads, ie Ferodo DS2000. Braided hoses, brake support bracket, Lockheed 5.1 fluid. I think that's the lot Those Pagid pads are very good on road or track, and wear well. But they're £250 a set and the new Ferodo DS2500 is reckoned to be as good at half the price. I have a set to fit next.

Did six back-to-back stops from indicated 104mph (for speedo error) to zero, all under 3.3 secs. Best was 3.24. Had to stop as son, with stop watch, was feeling sick. Last year Evo tested 14 top sports cars and the best was a 911 Turbo that managed 100-zero in 4.3 secs. 100-zero in 3.3 is an average of 1.4g I believe, probably peaking a bit higher as the car shudders to a halt. The ABS cuts in immediately and I believe the brakes could do this stop in under 3 secs with slicks, extra-grippy surface etc. This was at Bruntingthorpe proving ground. Not recommended on public road and could go horribly wrong. Take care

As I've said before, stopping at this velocity is positively violent - more like an explosion. It takes your breath away. I didn't get these brakes because of their power, although that's obviously handy but is actually overkill and exceeds the limits of the car. I got them because I was fed up wasting money on inferior kit. Main thing is absolutely fade-free braking on tracks days and better feel - I've even managed a bit of trail-braking successfully now

Richard.

Hoppy

Hi Pete. Cheap pads are expensive, aren't they? For road use, try Ferodo DS2000 (Prodrive upgade) or Mintex 1144. But if you get them track-day hot, they will wear

Grooved discs are good. No question. They keep the pad clean, and have very little effect on wear. Are the grooves on your discs cast or cut? My APR discs's grooves are cut, and so sharp you can (no bull) cut your finger on them.

Richard.

[Edited by Hoppy - 2/3/2002 11:18:55 PM]

PeterPerfect

Very strange.....after couple of thousand miles my EBC turbo groove disks and red stuff pads appear to be working well now
They still lack real bite from cold, but after a couple of corners and they really start to bite (ABS in dry)...I'm braking way later than I was with the std disks with EBC greens.
I wonder if its to do with less pad material now (4mm), reaching operating temperature faster ?
I was very unhappy with these a couple of months ago, but now I like them
Still looking forward to trying a DS2500 pad or something.....
Pete

JonW

Peter, Im pleased these are working for you... my update then...

Done circa 5k miles now and my EBC redsuff on standard disks are crap... no bones about it they are *CRAP*.

Yesterday I had a spirited drive on a famous UK road (being carful as to who reads this forum) which has many switchback corners and lots of short straights in between... my 'pedal' was medium distance from the floor and slightly mushy throughout and I could deck the pedal and only get the ABS working on occasion. Not very confidence inspiring.
As I had time I did some testing and riding the brake pedal with my left foot brought the pedal right up and provided great feel for the next corner but by the next one it was cooling off too much and beginning to 'sag' again.

All in all im very dissapointed with EBC redstuff pads and the standard disks, I think you need to have grooved and or drilled disks to generate some extra friction and thus heat in the pads which the standard smooth disks just cant manage. Even on a UK track day I dont think the corners would be close enough together to retain the pad heat.

YMMV but like I said in my original submission I think the money I spent on just pads would have been better spent on disks and pads at the same time (ie. something like the Group N+ kit). This may be obvious to most people but it wasnt to me at the time.

FWIW I wont be buying EBC Redstuff again as its badly advertised as a road pad as on standard disks I would really debate this after some heartstopping moments on motorways when people suddenly brake ahead of you for no reason and any extra stopping distance youve left is rapidly eaten up by the pads 'warming up'.

Sorry for such a negative post... ;-p
Jon.

Lars

Fitted EBC red-duff pads & turbo groove disks on MY 99. After bed in ( around 350 miles) I went to a two days track day on the Swedish track Knutstorp. Around 1.25 miles a lap, I did 36 laps the first day and my Redstuff was gone. 45 miles on one set of EBC Red stuff it to little, OK the brakes was excelent, but I need a bit more durability.
The prove that the EBC red is good on the track, is that my rubber dust covers on of the brake calibre is melted. The Disk is OK but has a funne white/ gray colour, no doubt it has been hot.
I'm now back to Green stuff for road use and think I'll try Ferodo next track day.
Lars

JonW

Lars,

'EBC red-duff pads'
-

Freudian slip Lars??? :-p

Jon.

AndyMoody

iTrader: (2)

EBC brakes are based in Northampton, perhaps that is why TN recommend them? I'm not sure of the name of the road, but I pass it every Friday night. It is in a back street near the Jet petrol station and Lidl or Aldi supermarket.

StanS

iTrader: (3)

Just to add my 2p worth.
Had EBC turbo groove and redstuff and treated them gently for 2-300 miles then progressively harder pressure over the next 100.
They were never impressive especially when cold - little bite or feel until hot so you have to press hard when cold !
BUT , the last few weeks before changing them they started really working well (@7K miles approx). I wondered if it was because I use them fairly gently most of the time they had become "glazed" (?) and after a few very hard stops had then refaced the pads ? I was impressed with their performance then (for £250 brakes) - best they'd ever been !!
Not a patch on the Godspeed 335mm kit now fitted .
(Std discs, EBC turbo grooves, redstuff pads all now for sale - all in good condition - e-mail if interested !!)
Stan

ScoobyJawa

Have to say mine are now much better.

Still pants from cold but after a few corners and a bit of heat I now find myself having to push away from steering wheel each time I brake hard so that I don't hit it
Much much better. Reds + Turbogroove on MY99.

Can't recall ever tripping the ABS though...............

PeterPerfect

This is indeed interesting....
Both myself & ScoobyJawa, were initially unhappy with the product (after running in) and are now satisfied with it
Could it be the EBC system matures with age
ScoobyJawa...yep, mine does now trigger the ABS when warmed up....the EBC package feels MUCH better than when it had 1000 miles on. For my driving style, I'm braking to the limit of my tyres..not the brakes.....I think I'd need slicks to make use of a 'bigger' brake setup.
Pete

ScoobyJawa

Hi Pete!

It would certainly seem that the redstuff running in period is much bigger than other brakes. I have to say that although I've braked hard, I've never tried to brake as hard as poss to trigger the ABS so it might do!!! Mine too now has something like 1500-2000 miles on it and it is vastly better. Shame they are still useless from cold though

See ya
Neil.

Nick B

I had the same set-up last year from TN - first I ran with EBC Greens which warped the disk (now recommended not to use Greens) - then had two sets of reds. First were great but only lasted 200 miles (75 miles on track)! Second set of reds developed fade with hard normal road use. Not impressed.

Now using Ferrodo DS2500 with the EBC TG Disks and no problems. Think the disks are fine - try different pads...