nescoob1

Need to replace the front dics and pads all round on my MY05 Sti and have been looking at the performance friction brakes. Does anyone have them on their car? if so are they any good?

Was looking at somewhere in the North East to fit them to if anyone has any ideas.

Thanks

SPEN555

Undecided on mine so far. They are expensive and debateable whether they offer VFM compared to OEM Discs and a good set of pads.

They do give off a hell of a lot of brake dust I have noticed.

A few posters on here really rave about them.

HTH.

rcwhite

also looking at these as well have only herd good things about them. will try and find the link i had.

nescoob1

How long have you had yours fitted?

MikeyTang

iTrader: (4)

In the same situation. Was looking at ap 6 pots first but Alyn @ AS performance reckons these are as good ... and alot cheaper

SPEN555

I have done about 2,000 miles on them including two track days.

MikeyTang

iTrader: (4)

Which pads did you go for?

Whats making you doubt them? Fade? Judder? Overall performance?

nescoob1

Do you know what sort of price they are?

MikeyTang

iTrader: (4)

Off the top of my head i think the quote was abt £750. This includes the 2 piece disc, front and rear pads.

I suppose if there a few of us wanting them we mite be able to sort out a GB or discount.

richiewong

Give Alyn a ring, he's based in Birtley and maybe able to you a deal

0191 410 3770

SPEN555

Performance Friction recommend their discs and pads which is what I have got.

"Whats making you doubt them?" No doubt they are better than standard it's just the premium you pay and whether or not it is worth it I have my doubts about.

"Fade? Judder?" Not having problems there.

"Overall Performance" This is good but I have found I have no brakes on occasion on track I presume to brake fluid getting too hot. I think that is down to the Brembo's being a poor design for cooling though rather than the discs and pads themselves.

Basically with me it comes down to OEM Discs with Pagid pads vs. Performance Friction discs and pads and the difference in price I find hard to justify the extra cost. For my next set I think I will go back to OEM Discs with Pagid pads and compare again.

What I will say though on track it seems to haul you down time and time again with relative ease but then that leads to heat build up and boiled brake fluid so can't seem to win really. Where as the OEM disc I found would start with fade and pad knock off problems.

HTH.

stockcar

no offence but you have answered your own question Spen..........

time and again they haul you down with no issue other than boiling the fluid..........easy soloution is to upgrade/ change your fluid to an appropriate spec and should be sussed....

also you don't mention which pad type you wnet for?? z-rated or the 01??


did you fit matching rear pads at the same time ?? if not then this could also be a minor issue as you will be overloading the fronts

if you go back to OEM style parts you will suffer from disc problems driven in the same manner

alyn

SPEN555

Alyn,

Bought some 5.1 race fluid from yourself and ended up with no brakes at Croft. Changed the fluid and it was better on the next track day.

Don't know what pads I have, box says 1001.10 then little symbol saying 'Z' rated.

The rears are OEM discs with pagid pads.

MikeyTang

iTrader: (4)

So Spen ... i gues what your saying is the PFs are good but not good enough over the OE to justify the xtra pounds ... is that rite???

Actually how much are OE pads and discs?

Rill

OK, from the horses mouth so to speak........

The current braking setup on my 06 STi is as follows:

* Stock Brembo calipers
* Stock rear discs
* DOT5.1 fluid
* Goodridge braided hoses
* Performance Friction 2 piece front discs
* Performance Friction 01-rated pads all round

and I am VERY happy with the results!

I was initially using the Performance Friction Z-rated pads all round which although proved to be a very good general purpose pad they weren't giving me the bite I really wanted. Initially I had intended to change to Pagid Blues but after discussing my requirements a little more with Alyn (cheers mate ) he advised me to try the 01's. A good friend of mine uses an AP 6-pot setup in conjunction with Pagid Blue pads on his 04 STi so we've both been in the fortunate position of being able to drive each others cars and compare braking performance directly. As you would expect my Brembo's haven't quite got the subtlety the AP's have but apart from that there really is very little else to choose between the two setups. Honestly, the PF kit really is that good!

The final test was using them on the track. I did that for the first time on Saturday and they performed faultlessly. I had already rigged up a rudimentary brake cooling system after setting the Z-rated pads on fire on a previous track day so I can't be sure how much effect that had on overall braking performance but not once did my brakes suffer from overheating, fade or judder, and trust me, that wasn't for the lack of trying!

My friend with the AP setup did say to me after driving my car that if he'd been able to get his stock Brembo's working anywhere near as good as I've now got mine working he wouldn't have forked out for his 6-pots. If that doesn't tell you something then I don't know what does!

D1CCY

I'm Rill's mate with the 6 pots. Just want to reinfirce his comments about ventilation which has come from my discussions with the very helpful Pete Collen at AP. I had probs with pad smearing from overheating (DS2500 and Pagid Blue) on track and Pete nagged me to get some air to the back of the wheels. Ideally ducting to the middle of the disc but I found this too difficult. I've now cut a 3" square hole in the back of the wheel arch liner and I leave the "fog light" covers off when on track. This makes an amazing difference and I can brake as hard and frequently as I like.

This is logical really. You can have the best brakes in the world but if there is no ventilation they will get hotter and hotter until something causes a problem, whether the pads melt or the fluid boils. Even 5.1 fluid boils if you get it hot enough.

Cheers, Diccy.

SPEN555

Well I have only done 2,000 miles so the jury is still out. I managed 30k on the OEM discs and a few track days.

Interesting comments on the above posts.

Which pads have I got then? box says 1001.10 then little symbol saying 'Z' rated.

stockcar

Spen you have the road style "z-rated" pads which will cope with track use but lack ultimate friction, very good all round pad but for more enthusiatic track use then the "01" compound as Rill has is the set-up to go for.............

as for your fluid it sounds like you probs need to step up to a better spec as again the 5.1 is generally a fast road/mild track use fluid............

feel free to call and i'll try and suss out your exact issues, and point you forward

alyn

SPEN555

Cheers Alyn,

I think the issue with the first batch of brake fluid being so bad was it was not bled properly and managed to get air in which I got away with on the road but on track led to poor braking.

I am in the lakes this weekend so will give the car a good runout.

I will contact you about the pads and fluids when I have used the ones on the car.

Thanks for the advise.

D1CCY

Hate to sound like a broken record but good ventilation is vital if you are going to expect a lot from your brakes (ie track use). Without some effort simply not enough air gets to the front discs on standard cars. Arranging appropriate holes doesn't cost anything and well worth the effort.

MikeyTang

iTrader: (4)

Alyn,

What brake fluid is better for frequent track use?

stockcar

something like Motul RBF600 or the Millers racing 300 will do the job.........

alyn

MikeyTang

iTrader: (4)

Thanks Alyn

GC8Lee

Good thread!

And a good review of the PFC stuff has been completed by Dynamix on here (Duncan i think is his name), and also great to read Rill and Diccy's hard charging late braking efforts with completely different set-ups to give an idea how they perform against the big brake kit.

Diccy is so correct, cooling has a massive effect on braking, and i dont think some people just understand how hard a roadcar works its brakes out on track.
Bare this in mind, a road going Impreza fully laden with fluids and driver / passenger, must way in at 1600 / 1700kgs you'd think?
You go out on a trackday with an open pitlane procedure, you could easily do 50 laps upwards on the day.

Imagine the forces / temps that are put into the brakes with a car weighing that much with little / zero cooling to the brakes.....its one hell of a job to ask.

Race cars have the luxury of being as light as possible, aero parts designed with downforce and cooling in mind, hardly run as many laps in one go (excluding endurance events), and drivers who know how to drive and when and where to brake.

The last point i think is very valid, someone whos knows how to drive will only be on the brakes as and when needed and as late as possible...if you are on the brakes constantly you will build up uneccessary heat that can cause brake components to fail.
Its the same with tyres, if you are an eratic driver, you will wear out the tyres quicker than someone who is smooth.

On a side note, i use Castrol SRF brake fluid which is dear, but is probably the best fluid out there, the dry and wet boiling points are so similar, and i can go between trackdays without having to bleed the brakes at all.
The stuff is awesome.

GC8Lee

Fully agree with Alyn here

MikeyTang

iTrader: (4)

So to put this all into perspective. Performance Friction are not quite APs but a very good alternative. Also no matter which brakes you have cooling is a very important aspect to get the best out of your brakes.

Does that sound rite?

D1CCY

I'd agree with that.

GC8Lee

Other than what Rill said about his and DICCY being very very close in terms of racing and stopping against each other.

I suppose to put it in perspective, if the PF discs and pads alone, using standard calipers can match a larger diameter disc and expensive ap 6 pot caliper, and cost halve the price....then thats pretty good i reckon!!!

Also, yes, the last statement is so true, no matter what brakes you run, if you do trackdays, get some cooling rigged up to your brakes!

awd wrx

If you use the same make pads in both kits the smaller discs will not match the performance of the larger discs and larger calipers and pads , when it comes to brakes , bigger is always better ,

Rill

Bob on!