Martin J Stirling

Hi Guys,

thanks for the comments. I will find out what you need to know tomorrow. By the way, the prices include VAT too.

I am no brake expert by the way, just know that for the money you aint gonna find better..

MS

[Edited by Martin J Stirling - 11/1/2001 11:28:59 PM]

AndyMc

Hi Martin

I think there would be a lot more interest if they had been used by few typical Scooby drivers (ie hard) for say 10K miles with a couple of trackdays thrown in.If they managed to stand up to this without any problems (such as warping/cracking/pad knock off etc) as the AP and Brembo stuff does, then they would be an excellent buy .Has anybody used them in this way I wonder?

Also a larger piston size when used with a larger disc can change the pressure/torque relationship of the front brakes by quite a bit.This has a couple of effects

The pedal will be lower and more spongy(the Scoob isn't exactly known for its firm pedal)

The brake bias will move more to the front

The ABS could even be affected
I wonder if Hi-Spec could tell us if any Impreza specific developement work been done to make sure none of this is an issue ?

Andy

PS see the technical section under 'big brakes and ABS' on www.stoptech.com for a good explanation of pressure/torque relationships and ABS.There is also a lot of good info in the FAQ

PPS I'm not sure how this post reads but it is meant to be helpfull








[Edited by AndyMc - 11/5/2001 6:48:31 PM]

Martin J Stirling

Deal of the century if you ask me



I have managed to negotiate a cracking group buy on the above AP style large ally brake kits for the impreza. These kits are easily on a par with AP, in terms of quality and performance in my opinion. Details are as follows:-

- HI SPEC BILLET "MONSTER 4" POT CALIPERS, CNC MACHINED WITH LIGHTWEIGHT ALLY BODY

- POWERFUL 39mm OR 42mm PISTON

- RIGID DESIGN ENGINEERED TO ELIMINATE FLEX

- INTERNAL FLUID CROSSOVER ELIMINATES EXTERNAL TUBING

- FULLY DUST SEALED TO PROTECT FROM THE INGRESS OF DIRT, SO PROTECTING THE 4 PISTON FROM DAMAGE AND CORROSION

- CROSS DRILLED, GROOVED OR COMBINATION TWO PIECE DISKS WITH ALLY BELLS

- FULL FITTING KITS AND INSTRUCTIONS

Kits are available in a variety of disk sizes. Sizes and prices, with the group discount are below. We need at least 15 sets to qualify for the discount.

310 x 28 disc and caliper kit £700
325 x 30 disc and caliper kit £750
335 x 32 disc and caliper kit £800
355 x 30 disc and caliper kit £900

These kits take the standard AP 4 pot sized pad which are also available from a variety of brands at a small extra cost. Braided hoses are £14 each.

Please let me know if you are interested or need more info.

Cheers,

MS

(PS - I have no connection with this company whatsoever, just spotted a good product and thought you might be interested at this price..)

Jon Bogert

Looks great! A few questions:

1) Will Hi-Spec ship to the U.S.?
2) Piston size: I thought the brand name kits use 36mm/40mm unequal pistons. You say this caliper uses equal size pistons of either 39mm _OR_ 42MM. What is recommended for the Impreza master cylinder?
3) Which, if any, will fit under stock 16x7x53 Subaru wheels?
4) Are the rotors fully floating or firmly bolted to the bells?

Thanks! -Jon

John Stevenson

Inc. VAT or Ex. VAT ?

---john---

scoobymike

Sorry for being sceptical but if they need so many bolts it can't be designed for maximum rigidity. This also makes the calliper quite heavy.
Additionally high performance callipers have different piston sizes to press the pad more evenly on the disc. The AP 4 pot has quite a small pad surface compared to the 6 pot or Movit Porker GT3 monobloc kit.

Dont' want to talk you out of this deal as the price seems very competitive. Just give some food for thoughts.

Check out my thread on the Jaz traction topic including the topic I wrote on the Lancer BBS.

Cheers

Mike

Martin J Stirling

Scoobymike,

just been thinking, what was the point of your post? Why are you questioning the quality or design of this kit, when you are not in the slightest bit interested in one? You seem to be trying to compare this setup with the Porsche stuff that you can't shut up about. Fair enough your brakes may be better and slightly lighter, but this is a decent budget setup designed to appeal to people who want excellent braking, but can't afford AP/Brembo etc.

I am happy to find out any technical/design info for potential buyers, but your post was just unneccessary. I for one can't afford AP kit and would love these brakes at this price. Please don't jeapordise the success of this group buy with pointless comments.

Rant Over.

Ta,

MS

scoobymike

Martin

bit surprised about your post. If it isn't possible to express your own opinion on a public board so what's the point about it.
Can't see any pointless comments as you say.
The points I mentioned are quite valid you can't deny this fact.
Additionally have you practical experience with this product e.g. have you tested this on your car? As you've already said you're no expert. So will be a lot of others who read this thread. Those are maybe interested in other people's view before they part with their hard earned.

Cheers

Mike

Danny Fisher

Gents, I was at Hi-Spec last night, picking some stuff up. The new calipers have the bolts for strength, nothing else. As for weight, they are slightly lighter than the AP 4 pot calipers, yet appear to be just as strong.

The reason that this company is cheaper than most is because they have 3 CNC machines that make the bells, caliper holders, calipers and groove and drill the discs (done to YOUR requirements).


They are still working on a 6 pot caliper, and the proto-types look very interesting.

Dan

mikeesingh

iTrader: (3)

martin

im very intrested in the 335 kit, was going to get one from hi-spec at the end of this month, are sure the prices include vat and the brake pads are extra right?

mikee

dsmawd

Jon Bogert, why am I not surprised to see you in this thread. Now where is MikeWRX? Anyway, I am interested in this kit, too. Is shipping to the US a problem?

- Trent

ademid

Martin

A couple of questions for you.

1. What size wheels do you need for the corresponding disc sizes? I have 16" wheels on MY95 and would love some better brakes.
3. When would the deal go ahead?
4. Is the kit simple to fit or do you need experts to do it for you?

Cheers

Ade

Martin J Stirling

Ok guys,

spoke to Hi Spec today and have some interesting answers to your questions.

Q. Why do Hi Spec use equal sized pistons rather than unequal sized ones like AP or Brembo do?
A. The brand names use 36 & 40 mm unequal pistons, the reason being is to give more of an even clamp onto the disc. Hi Spec use equal sized 42mm pistons, which give a greater contact point with the pad and hence greater clamping force which means more powerful braking, even though the pad remains the same size as the standard AP 4's. The issue of even clamping is resolved by using offset pistons.

If you really want unequal pistons and are not interested in the greater clamping force the larger pistons give, then Hi Spec will happily make an unequal pistoned caliper for you as per AP

Q. Are the rotors fully floating or firmly bolted to the bells?
A. The rotors are fully fixed. Floating rotors are more prone to noise, wear and dirt ingress meaning that they need greater maintenance. AP tried floating rotors but too prefer fixed ones.

Q. Why are the calipers bolted together rather than a monobloc design?
A. The advantage of monobloc calipers is that they are very rigid and lighter than the bolted kind. The problem with monobloc calipers is that they have to be machined from a solid piece of metal, this means that they cost a lot more to manufacture and so cost a lot more to buy. Ultimately, Hi Spec use more bolts than AP do in their calipers and hence are more rigid as a result. Also HI Spec calipers are billet formed and not just cast like AP ones, which also makes them stronger. Anyway, the weight difference between monobloc and bolted calipers is merely a few grams, the difference will certainly be unoticed whilst driving.

As has been mentioned, the Hi Spec caliper is actually slightly lighter than the equivalent AP one - so there!

Q. What size disc for 16" wheel?
A. The 310 x 28 disc will fit.

Q. What size disc for 17" wheel?
A. The 325 x 30 disc or 335 x 32 disc will fit.

Q. Will you ship to the US.
A. I am prepared to ship to the states as long as you pay the postage and I get payment upfront!

Q. When would the deal go ahead?
A. I need at least 15 people for the deal to go ahead at this price, so as soon as I get enough interest basically.

Q. Are sure the prices include vat and the brake pads are extra right?
A. As I said, deal of the century. Yes, these are the full prices inc VAT. Hoses and pads are extra.

Q.Is the kit simple to fit or do you need experts to do it for you?
A. The kit is supplied with full instructions. It's not too hard to do, but you may prefer to get a garage to do it. It doesn't take too long.


Scoobymike, still don't understand why you posted like you did? The way it read was that you were questioning the integrity/quality/performance of these brakes, where you not? Why, you have your super duper Porsche setup, are you just resentful 'cause I am offering a setup of similar performance for a fraction of the price? No malice intended in this question, but I cannot see why you posted like you did. If you were an interested buyer with quality or performance concerns, then I could understand, but I don't think that you are. You're like those guys who question people's asking prices on the For Sale forum, when they have no interest in buying..

Please justify the reson for your post. By the way, I have answered your questions, fancy a kit?

Any more info needed, just holler!!

MS

scoobymike

Hi Martin

good to see that the heat has cooled down.

I never had/have slagged off such a product which I don't know. As I had a lot of miserable experience with brakes first on my Scoob and then the same on my EVO (at first glance you think this car must have a sensational brake system but unfortunately it isn't the case) this has become a bit my passion. I can now almost open a brake shop for EVOs. Can you imagine the reactions I got when I compared the Movit kit to the AP 6 pot kit on the Lancer board? Especially when stating all the facts for a fair comparison. There's nothing worse than prejudice.

But this is not the point.

When I saw your post I took a close look at those callipers and this raised some questions which have now been answered by you and it makes it an interesting read for everyone.

Hope this cleared things up.

Cheers

Mike

PS: If you ever had warped discs due to heat check the run-out of your wheel bearings before fitting any new discs! Otherwise warping will come again and again

MikeWRX

I am waiting to see if they will fit under the 16 X 7 53mm offset RS wheels I have and to see if I can afford it after getting the unichip Yesterday

Fizz

iTrader: (1)

I would be interested in a set to fit under 17's on the MY01. BUT I also want to got to 18's OZ Superleggera or tecnmagnesio f1 rims. Keep me posted about the group buy as I am really intersted. I take it discs and pads are extra and ordered to suit requirements?

Martin J Stirling

Fizz,

The kit consists of discs, calipers and a fully fitting kit. Braided hoses and pads must be bought seperately for a small additional cost.

Cheers,

MS.

Mellow Yellow !

iTrader: (1)

Well done Martin for the work and effort given to bring this to the fore !

Martin J Stirling

Thanks Mellow, I hope my efforts come to something. 15 interested parties shouldn't be too much to ask I hope.

MS

SimonJM

Hi Martin,
I am interested, but depends on payment method. If this goes ahead would payment be made to you or direct to Hi Spec?

Please don't take this question the wrong way. It's not that I wouldn't trust you, but I would need to pay by credit card.(Unless you are flexible enough to take Access!!!)

Cheers

Simon

Fizz

iTrader: (1)

Def. interesterd. With hoses. Do you get choice of disc pattern ie. groved/crossdrilled etc. and what are the pad offerings?

Martin J Stirling

Fizz,

yes you get a choice of disks, drilled/grooved or both. You can choose from almost all popular pad makes such as the Ferrodod, Green Stuff etc..

Simon,

I was going to collect payment myself, just to make things easier to organise and control, but I will see if Hi Spec will accept direct payment.

Cheers,

MS

Hoppy

Just a quick note to point out that the most important consideration in a brake upgrade is the discs. They need sufficient mass to absorb the heat, as much surface area as possible to cool them quickly (AP Racing's road discs have 48 cooling vanes), and a design that resists warping - this usually dictates a separate alloy bell. Arguably, the caliper is the least critical component.

Richard.

Martin J Stirling

Hop,

Thanks for that. The discs in this kit can be supplied to any specification desired, unlike the AP where you get what you're given . These discs also come with seperate ally bells too.

Happy now!?

You may disagree, but in my opinion this kit offers all the features that AP brakes give and then some more too. How about larger pistons (greater clamping force) and lighter weight for starters..

If you're not a tart and can live without the designer name, then this is one helluva brake setup.

Cheers,

MS

CraigH

I wasn't overly impressed after seeing a set of their disks and how they've had great chunks taken out of them to balance them up.

pob on the job

If you're not a tart and can live without the designer name, then this is one helluva brake setup.

What exactly are you trying to imply?

I've tried to be diplomatic but I'm finding it increasingly difficult.

Does it make you a tart because

A) You think the Hi spec calipers look crap?
B) You can afford a proven high quality Brembo or AP set up which you are willing to invest your money in?

I really don't want to get into this any further but it's up to you.

It's my cash and I'll spend it on what I want.

bren@apex

iTrader: (20)

What are the full retail prices on the kits youve mentioned?

Bren

Martin J Stirling

Pob,

are you on drugs? You are responding to a general comment as if there had been some sort of on going dialogue between us. You have not been posting in this particular thread and this comment was neither aimed or directed at you. Are you always this paranoid mate!?

Chill...


As for the prices, all the calipers have over £20% off normal retail prices.

Hope this helps,

MS

Hoppy

Martin, your basic mistake is trying to hype up a Group Buy on the basis of a couple of photographs and statements like these brake kits are better than APR's at a fraction of the price. It's not true and we're not stupid.

Richard.

Pete Croney

Martin

Good luck with the group buy, but please allow me to clarify a couple of points...

Both AP and Brembo use differential size pistons to match the pad pressure with the temperature rise along the pad length.

The size of these pistons is not only matched to the recommended pads for the calliper in question, but also to the master cylinder set up on the car in question.

The differential loading optimises the friction from the pad and prevents the pads from wearing into cheese wedge shapes.

I remember driving Danny Fisher's car some years ago, which had a set of Hi Spec brakes fitted, using 44mm pistons. So much fluid had to be moved that the pedal was almost in the carpet before anything happened. It was very alarming and he got rid of them.

As for discs, describing AP discs as "get what you are given" is rather derogatory to a company that has had more race and rally wins than any other company, perhaps with the exception of Brembo... who own AP