wadsy69

iTrader: (1)

Anyone have any thoughts as to whether a set of these will be of benefit in the south east?

wwp8

i spoke to a tyre dealer today, and he said winter tyres(snow) aren't too good on the dry, ie now,

but are good at heavy snow,

he recomended me some all weather tyres, (didn't check what types though, as phone rang)

stiler83

The Tyre dealer is talking rubbish. Anytime the temp drops below 7deg you really should be using winter tyres. All seanson tyres don't have enough silica content to be totaly affective. The only all season tyre worth looking at though it the Nokian WR.
Do a search and you should find plenty of info on here.

JohnS

iTrader: (1)

Had a set of these fitted to my car just over a week ago. Michelin Pilot Alpin PA2 tyres in 225/45HR17. Cost about £360 fully fitted from Costco, using their 20% off voucher.

I've always managed to get by on normal tyres for the past 7 - 8 years I've been running an Impreza. I've had a few scary moments, usually when braking on icy surfaces on a downhill slope, but with a bit of caution I could manage most journeys without problems.

This year I decided to bite the bullet, and go for the winter tyre option. Decided that they would last at least 3 years before they needed replaced, so overall costs aren't that bad, and that the cost is actually about the same as the excess on my insurance policy so a worthwhile investment.

Initial impressions for the first week were of a much spongier feel to the car, which is hardly surprising given the compound used, and the softer sidewalls. You soon get used to it though, and it's not as though I press on very hard on cold, wet roads covered in leaves etc anyway. Noise levels are actually lower then the Goodyear F1s I had on, and there's a slight improvement in ride quality. Initial braking tests on cold wet roads (3 degrees c) surpised me. I wasn't expecting them to be much different from the F1s, but stopping distances were shorter, and there was more control. The ABS didn't kick in so easily and the car felt more in control under braking. You can feel the tyres squirm under heavy braking, but you get very good initial bite, and not the instant buzz through the brake pedal as the ABS kicks when using the F1s in similar conditions.

This weekend past, we had an inch or two of snow, so had a chance to try them out in anger. I must admit, I was gobsmacked at the difference they make. Previously, just touching the brake pedal on compacted/polished snow/ice, even on a level road would have the ABS kicking in, and I would normally use engine braking at all times. Downhill, you would just travel very slowly and avoid the brake pedal at all costs. Now I could actually brake and slow down, even on downhill sections. Yes it was quite easy to get the ABS to activate, but stopping distances were very good, and probably not that much longer than on wet roads.

The biggest difference though was in traction. On F1s, wheelspin and tail happy action were just a blip of the throttle away, even off boost on a standard MY02 STi in 2nd gear, especially uphill. Now I can use virtually full throttle in 1st & 2nd gears without much wheelspin until you reach full boost, and even then it's very controllable. Just a slight lift and then reapply and off you go.

Turn-in around corners is equally impressive. OK there's a bit of understeer if you turn in too fast for a corner, but most of the time they just grip and go round with little fuss.

In normal (ie not pushing too hard) driving, you can drive on snow and ice as if the roads were just wet, but obviously with a bit more caution required. The difference in car ability and driver confidence is well worth the investment.

My only concern was the H rated tyres, but I only get close to those sort of speeds on track, never on public roads. I wouldn't recommed using these tyres on track though, probably last about 3 - 4 laps

I've since had a set fitted to my wife's car (FWD Astra), and she is now happy to go out driving in snow and ice. She reports that you hardly notice that there's snow/ice on the roads at all.

In all, a very worthwhile purchase given the weather we'll get in Scotland for the next few months.

John

slimnotshady

John,
Excellent bit of info there, thanks- I was considering the same thing, even though changing the Potenzas for F1's on my MY00 has made a marked improvement in handling on wet roads already!
Do you have a second set of wheels for these tyres, or just get them all swapped twice a year?

cheers
Si

JohnS

iTrader: (1)

Si,

I've got a 2nd set of wheels so can swap them over in about 30 minutes on my drive using the scissors jack supplied with the car.

Got the wheels 2nd hand for a reasonable price and saves lots of hassle.

Only got the one set for my wife's car, so we'll swap those tryes again in March/April.

Silver Scooby Sport

iTrader: (15)

Very interesting read there John

I'm looking at swapping my wheels during the xmas hols here.
We get very little snow but we do suffer from the slippery conditions and salty roads... I've not got plans to fit winter tyres but I will be removing my 18's that are on the car at the moment and I have the original 16's with good set of Toyos on them to go back on.
If you have a spare set I think this is well worth doing for the winter months, not only from a safety point of view but also to extend the life of the good alloys on the car for the rest of the year.

Simon

Jerry B

Put some Nokian WRs on a month ago. Put nearly new F1s in the garage.
It's my first time on winter tyres.
First fitted and driven on dry tarmac at 5c. Scary slippery until the releasing agent burnt off.
First few weeks temp didn't go above 7c and plenty of time below 0c.
Only benefit I noticed was at below 0 on icy roads.
Dry road grip is not great. Damp road grip is very dicy. Wet road a little better but not in the same league in any way as the F1s. Unlike the Alpins above these lock easily on damp braking. Never seen my ABS so active.
I've heard the comments and read the manufacturers websites about the below 7c stuff, but for me these are just not up to it above freezing from my experiences just recently.
The ride is softer, they are very quiet except on damp or wet patches, where they 'slurp' a lot - probably the sipes suctioning off smooth surfaces I reckon - but no big deal noise-wise.
The tyres just feel so light and disconnected to the road. On damp tarmac they just don't grip well at all and start sliding at any sign of power being applied. It's progressive and easy to control, but there's no feel when they go except through the chassis and car stance. You just don't feel able to tell where the limit is, feels like they could go anytime, though I think they just squidge and squirm so much the breakaway point is blurred.
I really want to believe that they're good for the cold months, not just snow, and felt that the frosty roads every morning were worth it but now I'm only keeping them on for the fun factor and to learn some car control now sliding is so easy and gentle at low speeds, but at high speed on twisty stuff I just don't trust them.
Pulling out to overtake is not tidy, the tail moves around and the car just feels like the tyres are half flat at the back. A bit like driving a Morris Marina van with a load of stuff in the back and the tyres at 25 psi, loads of movement at the back and front wheels feel like they're off the ground.
They're funny things, consistency something like hard Edam cheese, they're way softer than F1s, but the treadwear rating is double the F1 at over 400, which means they'll last twice as long, which usually means hard....must be that silica stuff they use, soft but not very sticky.....and last forever. Probably need to be on frozen slush which is quite sharp.

I felt so smug putting them on when it got frosty, but now I'm hoping for snow so I can feel the benefit as I'm sure they'll be great on the one day it snows here (still waiting for the 'severe winter' predicted)!
They are actually less trusty on cold damp roads than my 1973 camper on it's Portugese budget Camac 185/80 hot desert conditions only tyres and bouncy castle suspension. I took them out in rapid succession as well as a 1988 Golf driver with 3 different brands of tyre on it, and that had more grip too. Honest!

I've become a tyre geek....I'm so boring I'm starting to nod off myself.....

Jerry B

...zzzzzzzz...

astenhouse

Have Nokian WR on my Sti PPP and use them for driving over icy and snowy Aberdeenshire roads.

In my opinion based on experience over the past 2 months on mainly wet , icy and snowy roads typically about 60 miles a day, I find them brilliant compared to normal road tyres and like a previous thread have discovered that you can use the brake.

Last saturday morning 06:00 over a very icy Cairn O Mount (steep mountain road) the car was great and had little wheelspin on roads that 4WD vehicles were struggling on.

I agree though that they are different than normal tyres, they do run wide on dry corners and give a squirm when accelerating, however don't find any issue on wet roads.

I do find that they seem to run wider when the weather is a bit warmer (8degrees +) so mabye not so good say in SE England.

Overall well worth and much safer.

Brit_in_Japan

Hi guys,

JohnS experience are pretty much identical when I first used winter tyres a couple of years ago.

Had some fun in the snow last week, did maybe 30 or 40 kms in a mixture of fresh snow, compacted snow and slush. My Michelin DRICE tyres are now on their third winter season and it is beginning to show a bit. Whilst I feel that the grip is largely there in a straight line, I do feel that they have lost some cornering performance. Still miles better than summer tyres would be in the same circumstances. In winter conditions there is no substitute for winter tyres IMHO.

Jerry B

Well I had a chance to try them in proper 'Winter' conditions. Or would have...It snowed here last week, but I was in the Alps....where it didn't snow until it was time to go home...and then it dumped....and I wasn't in my car.
Oh well.....thankfully the coach had snow chains - and winter tyres!

http://www.etyres.co.uk/bad-weather-tyres

some interesting comments - particularly near the bottom of the article, regarding weather types and suitability.

abc

Interesting to see how the marketing people see the need (or not!) for winter tyres. Whilst the statistics for accidents caused by skids in winter are telling -- if hardly surprising -- the article concedes that for most UK conditions, what we need are tyres with a higher silica content designed for cold and damp roads rather than full winter tyres. So, for those of us like the OP who live in the south, I suspect that caution and adjusting driving style to the conditions will be a better 'investment' than another set of tyres, whether full winters or the projected high silica ones the article talks about.