Mark Brown

I was looking at brake upgrades for my 95WRX.

I was looking at the AP 6-pots at £1750. Went to my friendly tuner to speak to him about it. I don't do any track days only fast road. He suggests going for Subaru 4-pots and upgrading front and back to Pagid discs and pads. Total bill including second hand 4-pots approx £650. He says that he has that set up on their tarmac rally car and it is spot on. To me it is saving of £1100 and my brakes upgrading to something decent. However due to bonus I have the money sitting to do both and am having real trouble making up my mind. £1750 for front only or £650 to get the brakes done all round.....granted it will not be AP-6pot. What should I do?

Has anyone used the Pagid stuff before?

Thanks for your advice.
Mark

Danny Fisher

Chris L, upgraded to the pagid discs and pad setup just before Bedford. And from what I gather, he likes the setup.

As you dont go on track, then this upgrade I think would be ok.

Dan

Neil Smalley

I asked that question on chat last night. The answer was to leave your rear brakes as standard, except maybe change the pads to something like pagid or EBC green. If you make the rear brakes too good then you risk locking up the rears when you most need them to grip.

So the answer I got was go for AP 6 pots at the front(you need 17" wheels) and leave the rears alone.

Dave T-S

MY01 - i've also done the shall I shan't I on AP 6 pots but general concensus is they are too on/off for road use and have been advised to go for the Scoobysport Brembo caliper/AP disc setup - which is also cheaper than 6 pots.

Rosco

From what I can gather people that have the AP/Brembo set up say they can't believe how much better it is.
I've got Pagid front discs and pads and I'm about to upgrade to this kit on an MY00.
The Pagid brakes aren't man enough for track use but if your not ever using them on the track, it's purely a question of funds!
Regards
Steve Ross

TKH

I went for the pagid group N passivated discs and RS 42 pads 12 months ago on my sti 5 and have to say after 4 track days including the very demanding oulton park they have performed faultlessly and are also excellent for daily fast road use

However if i was going to stay out for more than say 10 laps on any track i would probably go for the Brembo or A.P. setup as they virtually eliminate fade.

Regards

Tim

Hoppy

Mark, I think your dealer is talking economic sense. You don't say what sort of driving you do but if you have not had major fade/warp/crack problems with your brakes (and are NOT doing any track days, espcially as Knockhill is hard on brakes) but just want a bit more muscle, the Pagid upgrade on standard Scoob 4-pots sounds a good route. Another similar plan would be Prodrive discs and DS2000 pads (my favourite) but the Pagid discs are also highly regarded. Pete Croney (ScoobySport) reckons they're the best straight replacement upgraded discs he's tried and although he sells them, too, Pete knows what he's talking about and doesn't tell porkies. I would also definitely go with the upgraded rear disc as presumably your current rears are solid and the later vented discs obviously run cooler. It's easy to overlook the rears but when pressing on they work hard and have almost zero cooling air. Simply adding vented discs will not alter the power or upset the front/rear balance. (A mate of mine decided to test his APR brakes to the max and did ten 0-100-0mph stops in quick succession. While the fronts were begining to wilt a bit, he was astonished to see the cailper on his solid rear disc glowing red! And now warped.) Mark, it sounds like Rosco might have a deal for you!

Dave, I don't understand this on-off thing that some people talk about with big brake upgrades, without specifying the pad material. Calipers only squeeze, but pads vary widely in their initial 'bite' and vary further depending on conditions, ie when running hot or cold. On my UK00 Scoob, I've been through four completely different brake set ups and the most 'grabby' by far were the standard ones! I've now graduated to the APR 6-pot kit running Pagid RS421 pads. During normal driving they are just fine and when going for it the feedback and control is quite exceptional. That's why I got them! Sure the calipers are great, but in my view the RS421 pads (not to be confused with the Pagid Blue RS4-2 pads) and APR discs take most of the credit.

Richard

[This message has been edited by Hoppy (edited 17 June 2001).]

Chris L

Yep, as Dan says, I've just upgraded my MY00 to Pagid disks (8 groove) and Pagid Blue pads using the standard 4 pot Subaru calipers at the front. Much improved feel and brake performance. These have been 'tested' recently when having to brake from (ahem) a large speed down to about 30 when a car pulled out without warning. Two up in the car and brakes worked brilliantly - no fade/judder, just pulled up very well.

Also used this setup at Bedford on the track and they also performed very well with no fade even after three fairly hard sessions.

Might be worth considering the AP 4 pots as opposed to the 6 pots, expecially as most of your driving is on roads. I would also suggest speaking to someone like HiSpec Engineering - these guys are independent brake specialists, who have a lot of experience with Subarus and know their stuff.
Their website is