Andy Tang

iTrader: (3)

Nick,

First of all, I'd like to say that I'm sorry to hear the problems you're having with the brakes.

A couple of things. This board has nothing to do with the SIDC, as it is privately owned.

It really depends how you left things with Mike. He's a good bloke, and should be able to come up with some sort of solution.

As for brakes there are loads of options, but it really depends on what you want to use them for!

Have a look at the search facility, and do a search int he brakes section. Lot's of different options have been discussed recently.

Hope this helps & i hope the situation get's resolved soon.

Andy

carl

What sort of warranty do discs come with? I have some Black Diamonds (also Scoobymania supplied) with EBC Greens and the discs appear to be warped after 6000 miles of road use.

Neil Smalley

I would second Andy's mail.

Have another word with Mike and see what he can sort out. You contract lies with the supplier, not the manufacturer. 99 times out of a hundred these things can be resolved just by talking things through.

I have heard of some problems with the brembo group N kit, but they may well have been from ages ago and from a different supplier. Do a search and find out how those were resolved.

Mike Tuckwood

OK.

The problem we have is that it is not hard to warp even Brembo 'Group N' Discs as many of you already know.

I hope we/I have not misled you.... I told you that I would attempt to get them exchanged under warranty, but the warranty cover is against faulty workmanship or manufacture defect.

Brake discs are a consumable and although yours haven't done many miles(?) neither myself nor the manufacturer know what use they have been subjected to?

<I>I can warp a set of Brembo discs on the road, within 10 minutes... if anyone wants me to, cough up for the discs and I'll show ya)</I>

I didn't say you had done anything specific Nick, what I said was that it is not hard to push these (or most) discs past the limit where they will warp... even on the road.

I will do exactly as I have stated on the phone today and I will speak to the manufacturer with a view to getting them exchanged.

Mike.

scoobyboy

i would class it as a manufacturing defect and providing that they have warped within a year i see no reason why they should not be changed under a warranty. obviously they are not up to the job that they have been designed to do so they should not have been sold as fast road discs.

carl

Mine have only lasted three months I have never had this problem with a car before -- surely there's some discs we can buy that don't warp. I thought EBC pads were supposed to be 'disc friendly'?

Mike Tuckwood

No problem, and no offence. I just wanted you to be aware that they may not necessarily honour a warranty claim, and they reasons they could/may give..... They may OK it on the spot?

<I>Scoobyboy. Don't take this the wrong way but I wouldn't trust <B>anything</B> that you say to do with cars (any cars). If you told me it had 4 wheels, I'd get out and count them. You can't even spell your own job title correctly in your profile!</I>LOL

I'll get back to you as soon as I can Nick.


Mike.

Pete Croney

Mike

If you are buying these discs from GP Automotive, they always used to change them when they warped. They changed plenty for us before we ditched them

Biggy

The Brembo discs are better than some other brands of supposed fast road discs but I stopped buying their Gp N discs some years ago, as warranty or not, they were not up to the use which our cars *normally* get on the road. Let alone a track day.

The only standard sized discs currently made that are up to genuine fast road use, and an *occasional* track day are Pagid or Alcon.

Though I doubt any standard size disc could cope with 5 track days in a month, as Gary managed

scoobyboy

mike do take this the wrong way have you ever heard of typos obviously not.
also my 10yr old cousin could warp a set of discs so it's not exactly something to be proud of and it's not big and clever either.
oh and by the way if i was you i would seriously consider a course in customer relations or resign and save scoobymania a lot of embarassment.
hahahahahahahahahahaha.

SteveB

iTrader: (1)

Mike,

Surely if you can warp a set of Brembo discs on the road in ten minutes, why are you still selling them ?? If these disks aren't fit for the purpose that Nick intended then you should replace them. If I buy a telly from Dixons and there is a fault, I take it back to Dixons and they replace it. Seems like your just trying to pass the buck here.

Seems the moto here is don't buy Brembo group N discs.

Steve.

Mike Tuckwood

The UK Brembo importers as you will probably be aware Pete had HUGE quantities of warranty claims, mainly from one particular retailer and took a "defensive" view on this issue since. <I>I won't get into the "ditched them" issue.</I>

SteveB.

You've missed the point entirely, The point I was trying to make is that "driving manner" on it's own can cause discs to warp. Not that they are made of chocolate. Apologies if I wasn't too clear?

Pete is correct in saying that the life expectancy of these discs in competion as not high.

We are getting excellent results and feedback from the Black Diamond Discs at the moment, some people want/need to go 'Group N' due to warranty concerns Etc.


Mike.

phil_ng

Nick, Check out the Sale of Goods Act. Any product you buy from a retailer must be fit for its purpose as described. If you said you wanted it for fast road use and thats what you used it for then you reject the goods and get your money back. If you used them other than you described then its your problem. Your deal is with the retailer.
Phil

[This message has been edited by phil_ng (edited 04 May 2001).]

MURPHY 280

Mike - I am amazed at your response in front of your entire customer base! Fair enough, Gavin didn't do what he said he was going to but for you to openly argue with a customer on-line is taking the P**s. If your attitude as MD is 'it's nothing to do with Soobymania' what hope is there for your customers or your staff? I think everybody who's read your reply gets the picture and will keep their money firmly in their pocket where Scoobymania are concerned!

Mike Tuckwood

Murphy.

Which thread have you been reading?

I have at no point said that it is nothing to do with Scooby Mania.

I have also not argued with anybody (have I)?
I merely explained as an active and long term contributor to this bbs that not everything revolves around how long something has been sold.

The point I tried to make was that under normal circumstances, these things shouldn't break. The manufacturer will look at the discs and decide whether there is a manufacturing defect or fault with the disc as they have the technical ability to be able to determine the likely cause of the failure.

<I>We have diversified here into a general discussion about Warranty and I want to make it clear that I'm not implying that anybody specific has knowingly bought about the early demise of any product.

It needs to be understood though that with certain items, (e.g. Brake discs, light bulbs, tyres Etc.), it is wrong to assume that because they are under 1 year old, that they should be replaced if they fail.... (unless that failure is due to manufacturing defect, or faulty materials).</I>


There are many things that can be done to a disc which will bring about its premature demise, not all of them relate to direct competition level abuse.

Murphy, I hope you are (partially) correct and that the reasonable majority will see that I have approached this in a reasonable way.

I too sincerely hope that Brembo will support the failure(?) of this product and supply replacements, (which after speaking to them I'm sure they now will).

Mike.



[This message has been edited by Mike Tuckwood (edited 06 May 2001).]

MURPHY 280

Yup! I understand what you say. BUT ...etc

scoobyboy

i think mike that the only way to save face and win back some respect for scoobymania would be to supply some new discs out of goodwill and try and claim the cost back from brembo yourself.

YOUNG GED

Biggy

I know It's of no direct help to you but I to have had exactly the same problem.
I purchased the disks from Scoobysport and the pads from Deemon tweeks last year.
As well as the set up feeling crap and giving no confidence the disks warped inside of three months.
Pete very kindly helped me determine it was definately the disks that were warped and then replaced them FOC .
When I refitted the disks I ditched the EBC'S in the bin and fitted some Ferrodo's and have had no problem's since.

Hope your problem's are sorted soon

Chris

Jim Dunleavy

I recently removed the EBC greens from my MY99 because of vibration when hot, I put the standard Subaru pads back on and the problem went away, when the greens were on the car the disc would show line around the braking surface, as though parts of the surface were overheating, since the change back to standard the disk surface is back to normal, so I'd suspect the pads rather than the disks.

Mike Tuckwood

New discs are already on route to me for both of the pairs which have warped (?) this year.

Rosco

Pete
I was quite interested to read what you had to say about the Pagid discs being able to cope with the occasional track day.
On my first track day with standard discs at Oulton Park, I was using the car most of the day and did three tanks of fuel. I was doing about 4-5 laps, then letting the brakes cool down as the pedal was getting hard to press. The discs never warped at all, but I felt the brakes needed upgrading!
For my second track day (Donnington), I purchased your Group N+ Pagid kit after being advised by one of your guys. I told him that I would be doing the occasional track day and why I wanted to upgrade my standard brakes. He highly recommended the Pagid kit and said that no one had warped any to date (back in february). Well after my second session at Donnington they were starting to vibrate. Again only about four laps then cool down. Obviously I was very annoyed having travelled over a couple of hundred miles to get there! Thankfully you replaced them under warranty.
Next track day was Castle Coombe (Rally Day).
Again second session, wobbles started! I took it a lot easier on the brakes than before, but not nearly as hard as I gave the standard discs at Oulton, (still 120mph+ track).
The discs clearly state on the box "Fast Road & Motorsport" and you stated they are "up to Fast Road and the occasional track day", but clearly I must have gone way past that point somewhere! As anyone who knows me could tell you, I don't drive fast on the roads and the only time the car gets any action is on the track. Being in the Isle of Wight there aren't many roads I could even get up to a high speed before a tractor or an OAP pulls out in front of you!
If this brake kit isn't for me, after stating exactly what I wanted them for, then surely the Brembo or AP kit should have been insisted for this use!
I don't mean any of this in a bitchy way, but the last thing I want to have to do is spend another 1500 quid on top of what I've already spent, to get the results I need.
Look forward to hearing from you
Steve
MY00

Pete Croney

Steve

Its difficult to advise on this, hence why our website only suggests the Brembo or AP kits for people who do track days.

There are many factors affecting use, that are important to disc survival. On track days, these are critical. Correct initial bedding in, warming the discs gently when starting out, cooling them gently when ending a session, doing AT LEAST one cooling down lap before coming into the pits. That said, we have replaced any damaged discs without question.

At the Rally Supercar day at Castle Commbe, there were 8 Imprezas using this disc, all survived without warping or cracking. And CC is a VERY hard circuit on brakes.

As a company, these discs are the best we have ever seen. And we have tried just about every make you can think of!!!

Our return rate is currently 3%, which I consider to be outstanding.

Sigmund

I think the only solution here for everyone having problems with warped discs is AP Racing big discs and calipers (or Alcon big size). I've warped discs myself too, but after three pairs in a short time I bought AP 330mm discs and 4-pot calipers. Works a treat but squeels a bit a very low speeds (even with the plastic pads at the back of the brakepads).

Rosco

Pete
thanks for your reply and yes you did replace the first set. I would like to return this set and get them replaced but I'm sure you and I both know, this isn't going to be the answer or cure to an ongoing problem I'm going to have.
As for bedding in, I'd had the new discs on the car for over seven hundred miles before going round CC. As for cooling down, once the chequer flag was being waved, the cars on track were moving at a slow pace for the last lap anyway.
As I've said before, I was advised that the Pagid would be ideal for fast road and occasional track day use and you even stated this in your reply to Mike Tuckwood.
Would you be prepared to have these discs, pads and front hoses returned and send me an AP kit less what the Pagid kit cost me. I can't see any other sensible solution and I was only going on your companies advice in the first place.
At least this way you'll get an extra sale on the AP's and I should have a smile on my face.
I look forward to the reply
Steve

CharliePsycho

Really interesting to see how many people warp disks.

I'm on my 3rd set of front disks on my P1, these haven't just warped, they have actually cracked in half!! All have been replaced by Subaru under warranty.

My argument of course is: If you sell me a car with 280ps you damned well better sell brakes of equal power...

The ultimate question of course is which disks dont warp??? I get the feeling that the answer is £1756 worth of AP 6 pots and 330mm disks... Surely there is a cheaper way?

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